I'm yet another tragic who played Talisman 20 years ago and recently stumbled upon the new FFG version of the game. Played my first game last night, I'd forgotten how harsh the game could be, we had a great time but it was mainly due to laughing at the misfortune of others.

My memory of playing the game as a kid was building up your character (probably much more than required however that was the most rewarding part of the game) then racing to the middle when someone made a dash for the crown. Not sure if it was bad luck but after a couple of hours no one was really that much stronger than they had started. Most of the players gained and quickly lost many items and followers. My character suffered two poor cards and that combined with a pesky thief left my little troll with only 3 bonus strengh and an axe from his starting stats. It was clearly too dangerous in the starting zone so on finding a talisman I fashioned a raft and made a run to the middle (I was going for suicide to try another character with spells and more than 1 craft - Craft based enemies were in abundance). I lost 2 lives in the werewolves den but otherwise got through to the crown of command and nuked my opponents.

This got me thinking, clearly I had some fortune in the teleport crypt but otherwise it was very easy with a couple of lives up the sleave to reach the crown of command. I'm interested to know when others decide its time to make a dash for the crown of command, How much craft or strength do you aim to have before launching the final assault, is there any other general factors you take into account?

PS The best quote from last night was from a female player who wanted to borrow the game for her kids to play - She thought the game was great for teaching kids not to give up even while facing continual loss and disapointment LOL.

I've only played 3 games myself but I think due to the random nature of the game and collecting of items it's **** hard to have a real strategy. I won my first game last night, I was the prophetess and when I got to the crown I had an attack value of 15 (when using my warhorse) no one could touch me. Two other players made it to the crown but their stats were so low that there was no point even rolling.

I think the best strat is to wait untill you have 1 or 2 decent items and maybe a set of armour and probably about 4+ of strength or craft before heading to the inner region.

I mean the pit fiends are only strength 4. I had to fight 6 of them but with my 15 attack I didn't even have to roll!

Bambam said:

Isn' that at the core of the Talisman experience ? For me it is .

Bambam said:

Str 9 is around the neighborhood where I start looking at going to the Inner Region (if taking Str-path of course). 10 or 11 isn't something I mind of course, makes Crypt easier. Extra Str can happen while you look for a Talisman.

Bambam said:

Crypt is nowadays the hard part, it used to be Dice with Death, but Fate nerfed that (sadly IMO). Like I said, around Str 9 I'm already starting to head up, assuming nobody else has higher Str (which is relatively unlikely, as there are fewer Str-based chars than Craft-based ones). Of course, things happen, nothing is ever certain in Talisman. Your char makes it to the Crown first, then someone passes the Portal, casts Acquisition on your Talisman and then Transference to switch places, suddenly you're not only no longer at the Crown, you also need to find a new Talisman (again, could wait with the Acquisition until that char reached Pits/WW, then cast it for maximum turn gains). If taking the Craft-path, 9+ Craft, with around 5-6 Str (with a weapon and or follower(s) to boost a couple of points in battle). With Gnome (or as Dwarf), I've gone to the Crown with as low as Craft 5.

Sebly said:

Did you correctly use Craft Value with Warhorse and not current Craft?

I go to the inner region if i have a strength or craft above ten( around 11 or 12 or something.

In one game, my Assassin won the game with a strength of 22 !

If your powers are to low then it's difficult to roll under your strength or craft on 3 dices...

Bambam said:

Talisman is pure randomness and if you experienced a continuous gain and loss, I believe you had a randomly balanced game, which is a rarity in my playing group where one player tends to be blessed by luck all the way long.

Bambam said:

There's a fixed amount of Str/Cft that suggests you head for the centre: it's a a value of 11 (bonus in battle/psychic combat not included). Portal of Power is an automatic passage and Crypt/Mines are statistically feasible, because 1 die roll is worth 3,5 points (10,5 in total). Of course extra points will give you more confidence and with less points you're taking a chance but that's great, I think. I really like when a Character rushes to the Crown and forces the others to pursue him. Cards like Gnome, Map and Shovel lower your requirements accordingly.

In the end, it all depends on the other players.You can get to the Crown with you stats, but someone could have a Spell that stops you. Furthermore, there's no real meaning in getting to the Crown, have the time to cast a couple of Command Spells and then be smashed by a stronger Character. The balance is what you have to evaluate each time and if you have a significant edge, for example your direct opponent has no Talisman and no chance for healing in the Middle Region, then a rush can bring you to victory. If he has 5 lives, St.Josephine (Reaper expansion) and much more better stats, I won't bother for now. If he's wise enough, he's going to find a Talisman and win on his own (perhaps you have to find a Spell to stop him); if he keeps going around with no interest for victory, he's likely to lose the game as he deserves.

Bambam said:

Don't tell me. Talisman teaches me every time the meaning of loss and disappointment, since I'm usually the unlucky player.

Unfortunately, most players play it just to improve their Characters indefinitely and don't bother for winning or losing. I'm too bad at card drawing and dice rolling to give them a lesson, but I've seen that in the end such behaviours don't pay in Talisman. You have to keep on trying, waiting, moving and in the end you might have something to say. I never win, but many times I did well in the last minutes of the game.

I reached the Crown once while hulking Str 23 Characters were killed by the Command Spell, I attacked the Character there with the same Strength and eventually lost, because I can't roll better a single time. It's important to state that nobody thought I would have done this and that I had a second chance when everybody else was hopelessly killed.

The_Warlock said:

Strength 23 characters?

Maybe you wait to long to reach the Crown of Command?

I wonder if you are really unlucky or do something wrong..

Everyone has a chance in the game. As soon as you have a strength 10 or higher, you should run to the Crown of Command.

It all depends on drawing good cards from the adventure and spell decks. But that is for everyone..

Velhart said:

Hey, I'm not the one with 23 Strength, I'm the one that struggles like hell to reach 10-11! Some of my friends really do something wrong, they have all the luck in the world, hoard Objects and Followers, reach immense Strength/Craft values and then lose the game (not to my benefit).

I tell you what I did in that game. The 23 Str player had the Dwarf (the Dwarf!!!!!!!!!!) and didn't bother getting to the center and win the game. He lingered here and there drawing cards, taking all the Objects and getting bonuses, and could have rushed for the Crown one hour before our game went to an end. The Warrior player made it first to the Crown and the Dwarf had no Talisman! He was lucky to get it in the Temple (you know I wouldn't have been that lucky) but he died on the Crypt space because of Command Spell.

I had the Merchant, I had Str 9 Craft 7 and a Healing Spell in my hand. When all Characters were dead and people started packing the game, I cast Healing, followed the Dwarf Steps, spent my last Fate in the Crypt to overcome the Challenge, took Dwarf's possessions (incl. Talisman) and made it to the Crown, where I faced the Warrior. We were almost evenly matched because we had the same Strength, but he rolled 4-5-6 and I rolled 1-2-3, incl. Armour saves. Tell me I did something wrong: I'm just unlucky, but I'm getting used to it.

I always enjoy a game of Talisman because I like to watch what other people do; I complain only when I see people like the Dwarf player that refuse to bring the game to its logical end. I enjoy playing Talisman, but if there's a someone that keeps all the goodies for himself, is always lucky and doesn't even try to win it makes me sick.

Dam said:

I don't have the card in front of me but doesn't it say add your craft to your strength during battle?

So the prophetess has 4 craft (or maybe 3?) and then I either had 4 or 3 craft tokens (all I know is I had 7 craft) so during battle I would add 7 craft to my strength right?

Sebly said:

Here's another one.

Craft value = Craft printed on the Character card = starting Craft.

See also the thread Philosopher/Banned Characters, where another person made the same mistake. Unfortunately this important concept of Strength/Craft value is explained in a single paragraph in the Rulebook and not everybody noticed that.

The only stratgey I have found possible in the game is to use your character's abilities as often as possible. That is the only constant in the game. And even that is subject to outside influences...it is kind of a metaphor for life I guess.

The environment in Talisman is something that happens to you, not for you.

Feldrik said:

Very depends of the character. From own experience I would suggest changing the Alignment to Evil as soon as possible. There is really few cards that can hurt somehow Evil Character. Rest are Evil friendly. Then going to the Middle Region to Oasis and Hidden Valley and Temple. With Fate getting something from the Temple is easy. Sometimes You will lost but mostly You will gain something.

That's one of the best strategy

The_Warlock said:

Why people don't read rulebooks carefully I'll never know. Come people, perfect reading for the john .

The_Warlock said:

so you rolled in the battle with the warrior a 1,2,3 and he a 4,5,6

That would be 3 turns (after each other), that you roll a 3 and less in the battle with the warrior.

Then you are really unlucky. I must say that it is really rare to roll that.

----------

well, weird occasions can occur.

I have rolled in one turn 7 times a six to see wich follower i lost.( because of a card i think)( Maybe werewolf..)

Velhart said:

I fought against the Warrior with the Merchant. He has never rolled twice and always scored above average; I always rolled bad, included Armour saves. Basically I rolled the dice 6 consecutive times and obtained 3 or less.

You want to hear another story? I had the Sage, the Minstrel was near to the Crown and I was on the Runes Space between POP and Temple. I was looking for a Craft Trophy to complete Warlock's quest and rolled a 3. I didn't want to encounter Black Knight and on the Desert Space I saw the Cave, which could give me nothing better than Gold. Ok, I use the ability and re-roll my Move: 3 again. I don't want that result, I spend one Fate. Still 3. I land on the Cave, rolled for it.... please... please no, another 3. I don't want to miss a Turn, it's the worst thing that can happen now, so I ditched the last Fate token to re-roll. Of course it's another 3 and I lost the game 5-6 turns later.

By the way, I remember that Gust of Wind Spell has been cast only twice in the last 6 games and both times the target player rolled for 5-7 different Objects and lost nothing. 5-7 die rolls above 4 in a row, not bad! It wasn't me, as you may guess.

Sorry, double post, this should be deleted.

The_Warlock said:

It's still weird and i understand that you can call it a curse.

But maybe that you can train to roll with dices and see what the outcome will be?

I have the opposite of you. Most players say that i am really lucky and i agree with that. Luck is always with me and i believe there is a angel on my back who help me

Velhart said:

That's no angel... !

Dam said:

Haha

What is it then

Ooh mighty Devil, stay away from me or i use holy magic upon you

The_Warlock said:

You want to hear another story? I had the Sage, the Minstrel was near to the Crown and I was on the Runes Space between POP and Temple. I was looking for a Craft Trophy to complete Warlock's quest and rolled a 3. I didn't want to encounter Black Knight and on the Desert Space I saw the Cave, which could give me nothing better than Gold. Ok, I use the ability and re-roll my Move: 3 again. I don't want that result, I spend one Fate. Still 3. I land on the Cave, rolled for it.... please... please no, another 3. I don't want to miss a Turn, it's the worst thing that can happen now, so I ditched the last Fate token to re-roll. Of course it's another 3 and I lost the game 5-6 turns later.

Yesterday's game featured the Sage and this post sorta seemed familiar (even remembered it was by Warlock, so made searching for it easier ). Anyway, can the Sage use Fate for a third movement roll is the question? I see the Sage's ability as perma-Fate usable for movement and the wording on the card also is the same as in the Fate section of the rules, i.e. "you must accept the result of this second die roll." So far we've played Sage as no-go for a Fate reroll after already rerolling his initial movement. Not that it's hindered him at all, miles ahead of any other char in win stats.

OT: Hope to post updated stats tomorrow, barring any mid-game deaths in the next game, it should see all the characters having been in a game 8 times.

Dam said:

Interesting. So Fate cannot be used if the Character already re-rolled a particular roll for some reason.

I'm unsure if this is really needed according to the rules, but this makes sense for every ability that gives a "free-Fate" use.

The Sage's ability is based on knowledge, learning, research, etc. (hence its title). Much as the Sage has some advantage in that re-roll (which is not the same as rolling an extra die and choosing?), it isn't the same as Fate regardless that the mechanics and wording are similar. Talisman's mechanics are generally simplistic, like any board game. We shouldn't assume that means two abilities of differing labels are thereby the same.

The Sage's use of Fate shouldn't be impeded because its Movement bility operates on the same mechanics. There are better reasons (and ways) to fix the use of Fate instead.

JCHendee said:

Thing is though, can Fate be used if you can't reroll? Sage reads "must accept" the second result when using his movement ability. Similarly, if some cards appear in the future that say you must accept the result, could you use Fate?

Another thing to consider before you go up to the crown, is the healer in an accessible place? Do any of your opponents have an easy fate flow, or movement benefitting items? If so, you may in the crown for a looooong time. I was in the crown for an hour the other day trying to knock of a ghoul who just kept replenishing fate at the graveyard, healing and teleporting landing on the wanderer with the occasional help from the magic carpet.

He only died when he made a run for the crown and I was lucky with my rolls, as he had a massed 5 strength and 6 craft more than I. **** boring! The sad thing was I had the opputunity to cast destruct on the Healer b4 I went up, and wasted it.

Dam said:

The way our group uses Fate, it wouldn't be an issue. If we played the standard rules, we would allow it. That first re-roll was his use of knowledge. If it's a bad roll, then he made a mistake or remembered something wrong. But just because he made a mistake doesn't mean his Fate can't have an influence or is suddenly shortcircuited. There is no rational reasoning for a mundane ability (in failure or success) suddenly precluding otherworldy influences. Then again...

Fate has never been reasoned correctly in Talisman. I'm betting an official ruling would be "No, the sage cannot use Fate to re-roll a third time"... simply because of the wording you sited and nothing else.

Seek out an official rules in the appropriate subforum, if you're looking to play by purely official rules. Otherwise, the player's group can discuss... chuck out anything that's just didactic... and decide for themselves.