Burst fire and RoF lets you score four hits with three shots?

By Captain Erf, in Only War Rules Questions

This being the fifth edition of the core rules, isn't it high time to fix the following:

A weapon's Rate of Fire indicates both the number of shots expended in a semi or full auto burst, but it also sets the cap for the number of extra hits (ie, on top of the original hit) scored with a burst fire action. So for example, a lasgun with RoF S/3/- fires three shots with a semi-auto burst, but can hit up to four targets. That's pretty impressive.

So the rules for Semi-Auto Burst and Full Auto Burst need errata:

From:

The number of EXTRA hits scored in this manner cannot exceed the weapon's fully automatic/semi-automatic rate of fire.

To:

The TOTAL number of hits scored in this manner cannot exceed the weapon's fully automatic/semi-automatic rate of fire.

Either that, or the RoF rules need to be changed!

Why change it, when it isn't broken?

Perhaps you're being too literal in the interpretation of RoF? :)

4 shots isn't a stretch for me.

There's fluff precedence (Gaunt's Ghosts) for when the IG go full ape and unleash Lasgun hell.

I see you point Cpt. Erf, but IMO common sense beats RAW every time. To me it's pretty obvious thet you can never hit with more shots than you fired...

It's just one of many examples in (every) RPG, where you have to think and interpret the writing, and figure out what makes sense, and scrap the rest.

Why change it, when it isn't broken?

Perhaps you're being too literal in the interpretation of RoF? :)

Well, it's not really a matter of interpretation. The rules tell you to expend three rounds of ammo, and then go on to tell you that maybe you've hit four targets. Four shots is not a stretch, it's the fact that it costs you three rounds of ammo...

I see you point Cpt. Erf, but IMO common sense beats RAW every time. To me it's pretty obvious thet you can never hit with more shots than you fired...

Indeed, I would say it is blatantly obvious you can't hit with more shots than you fired. That's why it is so jarring to have that silly rule copy-pasted again and again into every incarnation of the rules. Especially since it's so easy to fix.

I mean it's not world shattering, but it's jarringly impossible and it just keeps coming back :P

I think the OP's post is not so much about common sense as well as a general dissatisfaction with the clumsy wording of certain rules, even now with the 5th (!) incarnation of the core ruleset. I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Wow, I never even noticed this. My group has always taken the ROF to be the maximum total hits you can score.

Feh.

Trog says: I SHOoT LaSguN! I SHOoT tHREE time! I Hit FOUR time! Because MAGIC LASGUN.

Stupid rules.

I agree with The Laughing God that it just seems to be a case of clumsy wording. As I interpret it, the writer clearly meant something along the lines of the extra shots being counted in combination with or addition to the first round (basically, 1+X vs total limit), as total RoF applies to all shots - but just didn't express themselves very well.

I would support this minor change in wording, though I don't see it as a critical thing either. As SoIP said: common sense. That being said, no reason not to fix such things when one catches them. :)

Edited by Lynata

I hadn't noticed this until I saw it here, and yes RAW does allow, but no-one in our group would argue the point (well maybe one of them would, but we'd all tell him to shut up).

The Full Auto wording is even more clumsy than the semi - why bother talking about "extra" hits at all when it's just one hit per DoS?

Hopefully a simple substituion of "total hits" for "extra hits" will be made at some point. Gotta wonder why it wasn't picked up in playtest though, as it has to be one of the most common combat actions!

The number of extra hits scored in this manner cannot exceed the weapon’s semi/full-automatic rate of fire.

The wording and intent is both completely fine. You cannot gain more shots per two degrees of success than the rate of fire. You see the word 'extra' here instead of 'total', because in isolation it would literally mean the 'extra hits cannot exceed the rate of fire'.

but if you swing back to the beginning of the Armoury chapter you get this

RoF (Rate of Fire): This tells you if the weapon can be fired either on Semi-Auto or Full Auto and how many rounds or charges it expends when doing so.

Which denotes, before we get to the combat actions, that the total Rate of Fire during such actions is the number listed. Ergo, the writing is clear: You cannot exceed the Rate of Fire for the weapon, which includes the 1st initial hit. There does not exist any mental stretches that allows a magical extra round.

Edited by Cogniczar

It is the Emperor's will for a single las round to go through a target, double back around and hit it again. We all know what happens when someone questions that will.

Flamer at the ready

In other news, you are completely right: unclear wording is unclear. Chalk up one more victory for common sense over RAW.