Since one can not change careers, I don't want to see Jedi as a career. Having Jedi as a Universal Specialization would appeal to me more.

Gand, finding his calling and not being able to become a Jedi due to not being able to change careers seems odd. Sure, he could take one of the specializations, but at a higher cost and would still have to 'fudge' his career to call himself a Jedi.

Don't see why. You are whatever you call your character. A career does not define what you call your character anymore than a spec does.

The game will need to accomodate people that want to characters that come to Jedi-hood later in life a la Luke (take a Jedi spec) and characters that start as Jedi a la Obi Wan (take a Jedi career). Jedi is just as iconic as bounty hunter, soldier or smuggler. FFG chose to design the game around careers and specs. I doubt that will change with Jedi, one of the most recognizable qualities of the setting.

ScooterinAB has hit the nail on the head. There are already so many (if not all) of the typical potential "Jedi" Career roles already available, just without the Force attached.

The Force mechanically is an additive quality, something that can be added to any Career already available, there is just no need for a separate career.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of a Generic Force User Career but I'm of the opinion that it's basically unnecessary.

Correct so if having access to a Jedi Career's starting skills is important to you and later signature abilities you create a Jedi Career, if you want to play the farm boy pilot that later develops into a Jedi via universal specializations and Jedi career specilizations that option is there for you too, one of the primary reasons a career available Force Rating specialization would have to have some skills attached to it, is the need to provide 2 skills from it to someone during character creation, unlike with the Universal specializations from EotE and AoR. And Lightsaber skills could easily be provided via that route.

What 8 skills do you think make a Jedi?

Lightsaber

Athlectics

Vigiliance

Perception

Knowledge

Discipline

Coordination

Piloting(Space)

Correct so if having access to a Jedi Career's starting skills is important to you and later signature abilities you create a Jedi Career, if you want to play the farm boy pilot that later develops into a Jedi via universal specializations and Jedi career specilizations that option is there for you too, one of the primary reasons a career available Force Rating specialization would have to have some skills attached to it, is the need to provide 2 skills from it to someone during character creation, unlike with the Universal specializations from EotE and AoR. And Lightsaber skills could easily be provided via that route.

This is a solid counter argument in favour of a FU Career. But Signature Abilities are tied to Talent trees as well and if the Lightsaber Skill turns out to be Melee instead of a specific skill, possibly Melee skill and a Talent combination that allows for the use of Agility rather than Brawn as it's base (which is possible), then you again would not need a new Career.

FFG has already shown they will do what is best for the game and not kowtow to fans whining for jedi. Having a jedi career will not serve the game in the best way. You do not need a career anointed jedi to play one. You just need to role play the philosophy and be force sensitive.

I would actually like it if they did what you're proposing, I just don't think they'll do it that way. There are probably more people who will mind if they don't include a Jedi career than people who will mind if they do.

FFG has already shown they will do what is best for the game and not kowtow to fans whining for jedi. Having a jedi career will not serve the game in the best way. You do not need a career anointed jedi to play one. You just need to role play the philosophy and be force sensitive.

I would actually like it if they did what you're proposing, I just don't think they'll do it that way. There are probably more people who will mind if they don't include a Jedi career than people who will mind if they do.

Well I wouldn't mine if they did, I also just don't think it's necessary to have a specific Career and that more Universal Force Talent Trees are both enough and a more elegant way of doing it. Plus it's already what they are doing so far.

Well I wouldn't mine if they did, I also just don't think it's necessary to have a specific Career and that more Universal Force Talent Trees are both enough and a more elegant way of doing it. Plus it's already what they are doing so far.

The more I think about it, the more I think I agree. There is plenty of outside-the-box thinking at FFG with EotE and AoR, and I can't see them breaking this track record with F&D. And if I think about it some more, the idea that there are people out there who will go "what? no Jedi class?? I'm not playing this" seems kind of silly. Sure, there might be a few, and then their more open-minded friends will show them how it's done.

Not to mention, expect an F&D Beginner Box showcasing exactly how to run a Jedi in the new game...I bet it will be all of 5 minutes to convince any doubters.

In short, I don't think it's the barrier I thought it might be. D20 had to have one, because that's how the system is created: classes define everything, so a Jedi had to be a class. But this game is different, and not bound by those marketing expectations.

So, yeah, I hope they *don't* have a specific Jedi career. Having one will be...disappointing.

Wow. I think it's pretty clear what rpg book the majority of us are looking forward to the most. I've been following the threads for a while now, but first time posting, so hello everyone.

A lot of different opinions on whether to have a Jedi or not in Force and Destiny. I'm not a game designer, but what I know of the fan base seems to make a Jedi career a forgone conclusion. It could be the guardian/consular/sentinel take, but so far FF Games seems to have avoided past conventions when it comes to specializations with exception of the term "Fringer".

On a slightly different note, I'm speculating on the time the Force and Destinty book will take place. Will they go into the prequels, or (the more likely I suspect) will it be set thirty years after Jedi around the time of Episode 7? If it is set between these two periods it would be hard to justify a Jedi career. With the popularity of the new movie coming out around the same time as the source book I would expect FF Games would find it hard to pass up that tie in. Any thoughts?

While I have not read much of the EU, I can not think of an example of a Jedi that was not something prior to learning the way of the Force.

I guess you could say that the younglings would have Jedi as a career, but something tells me that in 'school' some were taught other trades. "Billy has an aptitude for mechanical things. We should foster that."

Jedi / Sith as a Universal Specialization opened up at X FR makes more sense to me.

I have no worries about how they will handle it honestly.

On a slightly different note, I'm speculating on the time the Force and Destinty book will take place. Will they go into the prequels, or (the more likely I suspect) will it be set thirty years after Jedi around the time of Episode 7? If it is set between these two periods it would be hard to justify a Jedi career. With the popularity of the new movie coming out around the same time as the source book I would expect FF Games would find it hard to pass up that tie in. Any thoughts?

Welcome to our hive of scum and villainy

there are a couple of threads already discussing this that might be helpful, take a quick look through the list, they should be easy to find.

It comes down to the basics;

you have 6 species and 6 careers, in a stand alone book, as a stand alone product you aren't going to introduce a species(Droids) that is unable to play one of your 6 careers if having a Force Rating or being Force sensitive is required, this is assuming only 1 career is Force sensitive if there are more than even more so you wont see Droids as one of the Primary species in the book, you will be able to create a droid using rules from previous 2 books with all their inherent restrictions but it just isn't likely to be a featured species.

The previous two books in the RPG series with the Force sensitive specializations was a universal one apart from all the other careers that a droid was capable of taking.

I also don't expect to see Bothans, Duros, Wookies, Mon Calamari or Transdoshians.

You will get Humans, and likely a selection of 5 other species capable of being force sensitive.

This actually somewhat proves that the 6 careers and 3 specs of F&D will not be force-sensitive, and that the force will be handled as universal specs. The reason is that they most certainly will include droids as a player race, as it is just not Star Wars without droids. So far, droids have been able to take advantage of all careers and specs, with the exception of force-sensitive specs. This is stated in the description of droids.

So, this leads me to believe (or confirm my belief) that there will be no Jedi career or spec in the 6 main careers, as they would be excluding a species that will no doubt be in the core book from playing what would then be the most popular career.

While I have not read much of the EU, I can not think of an example of a Jedi that was not something prior to learning the way of the Force.

I guess you could say that the younglings would have Jedi as a career, but something tells me that in 'school' some were taught other trades. "Billy has an aptitude for mechanical things. We should foster that."

Jedi / Sith as a Universal Specialization opened up at X FR makes more sense to me.

I have no worries about how they will handle it honestly.

Agreed. I think this feeling that there needs to be a specific Career comes from playing Class based systems like D&D that make this kinds of distinction more important mechanically.

I don't know what they will eventually launch with for Jedi, but for practical purposes I glanced through talents. There are probably around 10 or more that apply strictly to blasters and various effects thereof. Some of them are one shot hard hitters like Rain of Death in DCs. I've got no real dog in the fight how they handle Jedi, but it seems to me with 10+ talents for blasters and the force to contend with, along with the basic stuff you need like Grit, Toughened, etc in all talent trees, I don't see how they could possibly do justice to Lightsabers and the Force in just a couple trees.

I don't know what they will eventually launch with for Jedi, but for practical purposes I glanced through talents. There are probably around 10 or more that apply strictly to blasters and various effects thereof. Some of them are one shot hard hitters like Rain of Death in DCs. I've got no real dog in the fight how they handle Jedi, but it seems to me with 10+ talents for blasters and the force to contend with, along with the basic stuff you need like Grit, Toughened, etc in all talent trees, I don't see how they could possibly do justice to Lightsabers and the Force in just a couple trees.

I would imagine that there will be more than a couple of Force User Talent Trees.

Since one can not change careers, I don't want to see Jedi as a career. Having Jedi as a Universal Specialization would appeal to me more.

Gand, finding his calling and not being able to become a Jedi due to not being able to change careers seems odd. Sure, he could take one of the specializations, but at a higher cost and would still have to 'fudge' his career to call himself a Jedi.

Don't see why. You are whatever you call your character. A career does not define what you call your character anymore than a spec does.

The game will need to accomodate people that want to characters that come to Jedi-hood later in life a la Luke (take a Jedi spec) and characters that start as Jedi a la Obi Wan (take a Jedi career). Jedi is just as iconic as bounty hunter, soldier or smuggler. FFG chose to design the game around careers and specs. I doubt that will change with Jedi, one of the most recognizable qualities of the setting.

While I agree with what you are saying, by RAW, the only way to get an IPKC is to play a Bounty Hunter. Sure a Hired Gun can get one, but that is 'fudging' the rules to a degree.

Keeping Jedi as a Universal Specialization allows anybody to get it and one would not have to 'fudge' anything to call themselves a Jedi.

Everything is already there to make the Jedi people keep talking about. Just attach FSE / FSEm to said Career and voila.

12 Parsec beat me and worded it better.

Wow. I think it's pretty clear what rpg book the majority of us are looking forward to the most.

Heh, well, there's not much left to ague and speculate about with these game lines. We have an idea that Edge is going to have a sourcebook for every Career, and probably more setting sourcebooks like Suns of Fortune and more adventure modules. Not sure where they're going with AoR but likely setting and adventure sourcebooks if nothing else. F&D is the one thing left that is very wide open to speculation, and Jedi are iconic to the setting even if IMO the Jedi/Sith struggle is way overdone in the EU at this point.

On a slightly different note, I'm speculating on the time the Force and Destinty book will take place. Will they go into the prequels, or (the more likely I suspect) will it be set thirty years after Jedi around the time of Episode 7? If it is set between these two periods it would be hard to justify a Jedi career. With the popularity of the new movie coming out around the same time as the source book I would expect FF Games would find it hard to pass up that tie in.

That really depends what they're "allowed" to do with the setting. Not like the player base has much to connect with regarding the setting of the future movie at this point. I'd say prequel is more likely only because there's a lot of source material for the setting already in place, where with Ep VII a lot is still up in the air, including what from the EU will be kept as canon for the interim timeskip. And the prequels really expanded on the capabilities of trained Jedi, for good or ill (I hate the wire-fu).

I think we will get six new species plus Humans and Droids. We will get six careers and 18 specializations with most reprinted from the Edge of the Empire rulebook and a couple from the Age of Rebellion rulebook.

There will be an expanded chapter on the Force with reprints of the Move, Enhance, Influence, Foresee and Sense talent trees. There will a couple of new Force talent trees, hopefully including one for Lightsaber combat.

I think there will be an universal Jedi career. The Force Sensitive Exile will not be reprinted as it is only appropriate for the time after Order 66. The Force Sensitive Emergent will not be reprinted either as it only fits Luke Skywalker and his first Jedi Academy students. Other Force traditions will not be covered in the Force & Destiny rulebook but will hopefully be in a later sourcebook.

That's a good point Kshatriya, the prequels do have greater definition, and the new film is on such lockdown there may not be enough time to incorporate into F&D.

I only brought it up as we are speculating on F&D, and thought was related. Timeline for F&D may deserve it's own topic (as there really isn't a thread on it) as this one seems to be lasered in on only the careers and specializations for it. Oh, and thanks for the welcome FuriousGreg.

The Force Sensitive Exile will not be reprinted as it is only appropriate for the time after Order 66. The Force Sensitive Emergent will not be reprinted either as it only fits Luke Skywalker and his first Jedi Academy students.

Cannot disagree more with these assertions. I doubt these specs will be reprinted in F&D, but for reasons wholly other than your frankly spurious reasoning for it.

While I agree with what you are saying, by RAW, the only way to get an IPKC is to play a Bounty Hunter. Sure a Hired Gun can get one, but that is 'fudging' the rules to a degree.

If you are refering to the bit of fluff in the bounty hunter section about IPKC, it says only the someone taking the bounty hunter career automatically gains one. As far as I know there is nothing stating that any other career can not have one.

Anyways, at this point we can speculate all we like, we'll know for sure once the beta rops.

I wonder if the moderators should just put a moratorium on these sorts of threads, both this one and the one I started about Force users and game balance. Right now, the only folks that have the real information have signed NDAs, and nothing constructive has come out of these threads, which have largely devolved into pissing matches on both sides of the fence.

Agreed Donovan. Which means a lot since you and I don't see eye to eye on how the force should be handled. Also, I had asparagus for dinner.

Agreed Donovan. Which means a lot since you and I don't see eye to eye on how the force should be handled. Also, I had asparagus for dinner.

I had Tikka Masala...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTA_n7uqxzc

How about this?

Career-------------->Specs

Guardian----------->Peacekeeper, Security, Pilot

Consular------------>Seer, Healer, Ambassador or Diplomat

Sentinel------------->Slicer, Tech, Shadow

Adept---------------->Gadgeteer, Mystic, Martial Artist

Just to start.

Sound generic enough?

No. Sounds like WotC. And sounds like trash.

Agreed Donovan. Which means a lot since you and I don't see eye to eye on how the force should be handled. Also, I had asparagus for dinner.

I had Tikka Masala...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTA_n7uqxzc

I was thinking some pollo asado, peppers, and onions on the grill myself.....

I think Star Wars is cool also.