This might be a stretch, but I am still wrapping my head around force powers, and since Donovan's revelations about the force, I felt it pertinent to ask. The control upgrade that adds an influence power check to coercion, leadership, etc, is that only a check for converting light side pips to successes and advantages, or can one choose for that to be an influence power use, where the power is activated, ie. convincing of something untrue or causing strain? I ask because the wording seems dubious (to me).

Thanks.

I'd assume you could use dark side pips if you decided to be evil. I'd stick to the special rule governing the base activation, so coersion and deception would be the most common application of dark pips. I suppose the opposite would be true for light pips, and that seems consistent...

So do you think that as part of scathing tirade, one could also use the influence force power's effects?

This might be a stretch, but I am still wrapping my head around force powers, and since Donovan's revelations about the force, I felt it pertinent to ask. The control upgrade that adds an influence power check to coercion, leadership, etc, is that only a check for converting light side pips to successes and advantages, or can one choose for that to be an influence power use, where the power is activated, ie. convincing of something untrue or causing strain? I ask because the wording seems dubious (to me).

Thanks.

I'd say that if you were using Scathing Tirade (itself an Active talent that requires an Action), then you couldn't use any other aspect of Influence (such as stressing the target's mind) as that would amount to taking two Actions during the character's turn. Especially since the entire point of Scathing Tirade is to cause an opponent to suffer strain. So no double-dipping there, much as you couldn't double-dip your Force Points to use both that Influence upgrade and the Overwhelm Emotions talent.

Edit: Sorry, meant to add "other aspects beyond the Control Upgrade to spend Force Points to add success or advantage to social skill checks."

EDIT (I really messed this one up):

You could use the right-hand column Strength then do Supreme Scathing Tirade.

Donovan, I think 12 Parsecs is asking if the left-hand column's Control upgrade applies to Scathing Tirade.

I'd vote yes. If I'm wrong, you could still use the Overwhelm Emotions talent from FS Exile tree instead.

As I was writing this post I kept waffling my answer. This is a good question and I do not know for certain how I would call it.

This would be a good question for the Order 66 Podcast.

Not that I listen...

Not that it makes a huge deal of difference mechanically (as far as I understand it), as the same points from influence used to strain would be the same points from scathing tirade used to strain = same net effect on strain. However, the other aspects of the power to influence emotions, or by more of a stretch, to cause the target to believe something untrue, are part of the influence power check, which is what is named in the left hand control box and description.

This may merely amount to being able to change the target's state of mind, and not make them believe something untrue (as that may be part of activating the power, rather than the check), but it would still add something to this for FS Politicos.

***edit to change use of the word stress to strain***

I agree with Donovan, with one exception:

If the Scathing Tirade is being made in a non-combat encounter, I'd probably let it work, since that more utility based function seems to be more in line with the power's purpose, and because noncombat encounter typically don't require turn tracking and action management like a combat encounter does.

I say probably though, because things might get weird when you start getting to high FRs... so I'd have to play with it a little before making a solid final call.

"When making a Coercion, Charm, Deception, Leadership, or Negotiation check, the Force user may roll an Influence

"When making a Coercion, Charm, Deception, Leadership, or Negotiation check, the Force user may roll an Influence

Power check as part of his dice pool. He may spend [Force] to gain [success] or [Advantage] (user's choice) on the check."

"The character may take the Scathing Tirade action; making an Average Coercion check. For each [success], one enemy within short range suffers one strain. The character can also spend [Advantage] for every [Advantage] spent, one target already affected suffers 1 additional strain."

Sounds like adding a Force die to the roll to me. Spend them Destiny points!

As I said (or at least tried to say) above, that part of the power I don't see an issue with.

It'd be trying to use Scathing Tirade and Influence's basic effect (spend FP to inflict 1 strain, now clarified by Sam to be more akin to "each FP spent on this effect inflicts 1 strain") or the "affect thoughts" Control Upgrade that I have a problem with, since each of those are by default Actions, much as Scathing Tirade is.

Well...using Influence is an action as is Scathing Tirade until you upgrade it to Supreme so for the most part that's a moot point to try and do both in the same turn. When you have the option of Supreme Scathing Tirade versus Influence it's going to take a lot of Force Rating for me ever think that Influence would be better in most situations.

Best case scenario, Force Rating 3 Influence would score 6 pips for 12 strain for 255 XP (at Engaged) by focusing solely on the Influence power and Force Rating progression.