Even the much-lauded Lord Vader.

Seriously - Jake Farrell is just an *amazing* value. And, IMHO, really quite comparable to Vader. Both of them can take two actions a turn at no cost. And with the appropriate upgrades...well, say:

Jake + VI + Hull Upgrade + Chardaan Refit = 26 pts
Vader + Engine Upgrade = 33 pts

...and here you've got two identical builds. Pilot Skill '9'. Attack '2'. Agility '3'. Hull '3'. Shield '2'. Actions: focus, target lock, boost, barrel roll, evade.

Sure, Vader can take ANY two of those five actions - but the most useful three of them are 'focus' with a barrel roll or boost afterwards, which Jake can do as well.

So you've got two fighters with identical stats, comparable dials, and practically identical skills (not QUITE identical, but what you'll be doing 90% of the time, anyway).

26 pts for the Rebels to get that, 33 pts for the Empire.

Uhhhh....FFG? Guys?? Uhhhhhmmmm....

Don't forget that Jake has the superior dial, while Vader can buy EPT and Missiles.

I'm missing 4 points from you comparison. I think the better comparison is to Turr Phennir. But I think you are really marginalizing Vader's freedom of actions. Jake has to Focus to get that free action. What happens when he shouldn't use Barrel Roll or Boost? Vader still gets his choice of Focus and Target Lock/Evade. I'm really not seeing the disparity, as Jake does loose a TON of versatility that Vader has. Especially in terms of upgrades.

Jake's strength doesn't come by being himself, but from being in the Rebel faction, with Garvin or Kyle.

Vader + Engine Upgrade is 33 points (not 37), and you must sacrifice Jake's Missile slot for the Refit (whereas Vader still has a Missile slot), so a more fair comparison is 33 to 28 . And that still doesn't account for the fact that Vader still has his Elite Pilot slot, whereas you've filled Jake's.

Still, point taken. Five points is quite a few.

But also keep in mind that Jake can't, for example, boost and barrel roll in the same turn if he really needs to (unless he pays 3 points for PTL, but then his PS drops back to 7), whereas Vader can. Of course Vader can do many fun things (Target Lock + Focus at Range 1, for example). I'm not sure it's fair to say that you Focus and Boost/Barrel Roll 90% of the time.

Might as well throw Veteran Prototype and Push the Limit on Jake for 3 more points right? Now he can take 3 actions!

Vader + Engine Upgrade is 33 points (not 37), and you must sacrifice Jake's Missile slot for the Refit (whereas Vader still has a Missile slot), so a more fair comparison is 33 to 28 .

*Having* a missile slot you don't do anything with isn't really that useful.

Still, fair point on the math problem - fixed.

And don't forget that Jake can actually get a third action (boost or barrel, depending on which one he took during activation) if combined with Garven to give him a focus token or Kyle Katarn.

So basically, with VI, I would move at PS 9, use either boost or Barrel roll, depending on the scene, get a Focus. Then at the start of the combat phase, Kyle give him a focus, and he can then boost or barrel roll. So, it's easy to get into position and you get 2 focus without any stress....

I love the A-Wing but man, it might be too good...

I figure the TIE Advanced fix will come in the form of......the TIE Avenger.

No way. The TIE Advanced is amazing. It's the lack of quality pilots that ruin the name. Tempest Pilot is 21 points of heaven. Awesome dial, great survivability... I run a 3x advanced build that owns.

I'm missing 4 points from you comparison. I think the better comparison is to Turr Phennir. But I think you are really marginalizing Vader's freedom of actions. Jake has to Focus to get that free action. What happens when he shouldn't use Barrel Roll or Boost? Vader still gets his choice of Focus and Target Lock/Evade. I'm really not seeing the disparity, as Jake does loose a TON of versatility that Vader has. Especially in terms of upgrades.

Well, as mentioned, the action set isn't QUITE identical, no.

But, realistically, you ALWAYS focus if you can - it just makes sense to do, it's such a powerful action both offensively and defensively. I'd say you do that dang near 100% of the time. And anything small like a TIE or an A-Wing relies on maneuver to try to keep itself alive, so the boost or barrel roll is what you'd choose as your second choice MOST of the time.

Not ALL of the time, no - and if someone ends up right in front of Vader, of course he can Focus + TL for a very effective attack, while Jake can't really get that. And sometimes a boost AND a barrel roll can make a shot possible when it otherwise wouldn't be. But these are corner cases, which don't represent MOST of the uses of these fighters.

I don't see those as corner cases at all. Target Lock + Focus is THE best offensive option available. Boost then Barrel Roll is the main key to get out of arcs. And it is always better to be outside of a firing arc than inside. It's why Lorrir is my favorite pilot of the Imperial Aces.

Agreed, five points cheaper just for sacrificing the missile slot and a few action choices is unfair. Hell, three points cheaper just for the compulsory focus is probably unfair. I think this means we're almost certainly going to see something separate for the Advanced.

No way. The TIE Advanced is amazing. It's the lack of quality pilots that ruin the name. Tempest Pilot is 21 points of heaven. Awesome dial, great survivability... I run a 3x advanced build that owns.

Jeez - how do you do any damage with that squad?

Agreed, five points cheaper just for sacrificing the missile slot and a few action choices is unfair. Hell, three points cheaper just for the compulsory focus is probably unfair. I think this means we're almost certainly going to see something separate for the Advanced.

Absolutely. The advanced is basically the equivalent to the X-Wing. Imagine getting an X-Wing at a reduced cost just to sacrifice a torpedo.... a 19 point rookie pilot? Kinda the same with the Advanced.

Advanced needs some new pilots at a fair price, and probably a title, or some other upgrade like a 4 point missile slot "Upgrade" that improves primary attack by 1.

No way. The TIE Advanced is amazing. It's the lack of quality pilots that ruin the name. Tempest Pilot is 21 points of heaven. Awesome dial, great survivability... I run a 3x advanced build that owns.

Jeez - how do you do any damage with that squad?

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles (25)

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles (25)

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles (25)

Captain Jonus + Proximity Mines (25)

Pretty easy to do amazing damage with this squad. Can take out ANY ship first attack.

Even the much-lauded Lord Vader.

Seriously - Jake Farrell is just an *amazing* value. And, IMHO, really quite comparable to Vader. Both of them can take two actions a turn at no cost. And with the appropriate upgrades...well, say:

Jake + VI + Hull Upgrade + Chardaan Refit = 26 pts

Vader + Engine Upgrade = 33 pts

...and here you've got two identical builds. Pilot Skill '9'. Attack '2'. Agility '3'. Hull '3'. Shield '2'. Actions: focus, target lock, boost, barrel roll, evade.

Sure, Vader can take ANY two of those five actions - but the most useful three of them are 'focus' with a barrel roll or boost afterwards, which Jake can do as well.

So you've got two fighters with identical stats, comparable dials, and practically identical skills (not QUITE identical, but what you'll be doing 90% of the time, anyway).

26 pts for the Rebels to get that, 33 pts for the Empire.

Uhhhh....FFG? Guys?? Uhhhhhmmmm....

Vader can run elusiveness without having to worry about a double stress token . This is a statement based on an imperial player frustration after seeing the rebel aces preview . It's far superior to imperial aces.

Welp.

No reason to use Y-Wings or TIE Advanced(s?) anymore.

Y-wings are getting quite a few boosts. Some good Astromechs and Torpedoes are coming.

hm... so let's see here:

Prototype A-wing 17points + Prototype Veteran (0 points) + Chardaan Refit (-2 points) + Opportunist (4 points) + Expose (4 points) = 23 point A-wing with 4 attack dice at range 2, 4 "hulls" and 3 evade. Sure sure, granted, no focus action for the attack dice... The target better always have a focus or evade on it... otherwise it'll be in a world of pain!

Still have the option of a Modification upgrade... crazy, and have a great dial to relieve stress.

Maybe I'll just run 4 of these like that, with points to spare, sweet!

I think you are forgetting the -1 Agility from Expose.

hm... so let's see here:

Prototype A-wing 17points + Prototype Veteran (0 points) + Chardaan Refit (-2 points) + Opportunist (4 points) + Expose (4 points) = 23 point A-wing with 4 attack dice at range 2, 4 "hulls" and 3 evade. Sure sure, granted, no focus action for the attack dice... The target better always have a focus or evade on it... otherwise it'll be in a world of pain!

Still have the option of a Modification upgrade... crazy, and have a great dial to relieve stress.

Maybe I'll just run 4 of these like that, with points to spare, sweet!

You don't get two off of Veteran, just one.

In this case, add 2 points and 2 PS for a GSP.

hm... so let's see here:

Prototype A-wing 17points + Prototype Veteran (0 points) + Chardaan Refit (-2 points) + Opportunist (4 points) + Expose (4 points) = 23 point A-wing with 4 attack dice at range 2, 4 "hulls" and 3 evade. Sure sure, granted, no focus action for the attack dice... The target better always have a focus or evade on it... otherwise it'll be in a world of pain!

Still have the option of a Modification upgrade... crazy, and have a great dial to relieve stress.

Maybe I'll just run 4 of these like that, with points to spare, sweet!

Prototypes can't take Prototype Veteran. (Presumably the Prototype Veteran is someone who's graduated from flying Prototypes. )

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles (25)

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles (25)

Tempest Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles (25)

Captain Jonus + Proximity Mines (25)

True, but with a person who knows how to maneuver out of firing arcs (with the A-wing's pretty nice dial), it's a moot point. Not to mention it is an option depending on the situation, can be adjusted accordingly (of course, that leaves out PTL, which cold make it even more potent). Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for pointing that out, I missed it, looks like I'll have to give it to Green Squadron (PS3, 2 points more), this time I checked.

Thank you

I was getting it off the top of my head, so I thought they were PS2, oops. Looks like Green squadron it'll be a better fit.

im looking to run vader with opertunist, and engine upgrade.

with double actions, i think he will be super deadly with this build