Didn't he actually design the B-Wing as well?

Yes he did, and used a B-Wing/E2 as transport, so he would be a perfect candidate as a B-Wing crew.

Well, the Defender has been mentioned to be slightly off scale a few too many times for it to be a mistake. Also, how many people were surprised by the HWK's small size when released?

People were surprised by the HWK's size, but that doesn't mean they were right to be. If you go back and look at the original cutscenes from Dark Forces, it's actually pretty accurate. I believe that the guy who wrote it up for one of the SW vehicle manuals also confirmed its size. I'm not sure what else anyone would want.

Didn't he actually design the B-Wing as well?

Yes he did, and used a B-Wing/E2 as transport, so he would be a perfect candidate as a B-Wing crew.

He might still fit a B-Wing perfectly after released with a different ship. Think of synergy with a system upgrade. Not unlike C-3PO who does not seem to fit the transport huge ships at all.

C3P0 is coming in the tantive which fits him just right.

Ackbar, unique crew, rebel only

''It's a trap!''

Once per game, at the start of the combat phase, every ship in your squad gain an evade token.

Ackbar, unique crew, rebel only

''It's a trap!''

Once per game, at the start of the combat phase, every ship in your squad gain an evade token.

Love it!

I don't think FFG would have taken 2 pages at the end of the rulebook explaining how much they want to stay true to the source material and set a scale that they want to respect for the game if they didn't care. So I don't think it's just to please some 'Nazi' or 'Taliban' as you seems to like to call them. They advertise the game as being as faithful to the source material as possible.

So, seeing as it's FFG itself that wants to act like 'nazi' or 'Taliban', I don't see Hound's Tooth being released as a wave expension or half the size the ship should be. As a special separate release like they are doing with the Aces and Epic ships, sure! And I really hope they do cause I'm eager to field a Bounty Hunter only squad.

Now, like Battlepriest said, this thread is about the Rebel Aces and how they will screw the Empire so I'll leave it at that.

Things change over time....especially when they start running out of material. They'll spin a story as to why they felt it was feasible to make the ISD happen and it would be a few years down the road. People will be scrambling for new products, because they will have exhausted most of their options.

Player pool will plateau. Sales will settle down and they will pull whatever they can out of their hat to get profit spikes and renewed interest in the game.

Game companies notoriously change their minds when they have guaranteed dolla bills are flying at their face.

Yes and people dream big dreams when they want to see their concepts put in play...

With the company setting the precident of scale, any arguments to the contrary are just that.. arguments. You're curious why some of us stick to our scale side of the argument.. We wonder why you guys choose to ignore what has been stated by the Authority on the subject... I dont see them changing their ideas on this.. and certain ships would be ludicrous to scale down to fit a table, no matter what anyone thinks to the contrary..

So... the response remains... the company says you're wrong, and I dont need to argue about it any more...m

Didn't they already start tweaking the scale with the Tantive IV though? The first announcements on the capital ships included this little blurb:

" The Tantive IV and Rebel Transport will be the first X-Wing starships released outside of the game’s 1/270 scale. Simply too big to function in the game at that scale, they left us with two options. We could change their scale, or we could leave them out of the game. In the end, we decided these ships were simply too iconic and exciting to ignore, and we invented a new “relative” scale, carefully balancing each ship's playability against its presence on the table. This means you’ll have even more options for your games. You can continue to focus on dogfights and Standard tournament play at 1/270 scale, and you gain the option to play these huge ships in Cinematic Play and the new Epic tournament format. "

Going by this, the company places "are these ships iconic and would players love to field them?" over "can we field them in 1/270 scale?"

But there is a difference between "fudging" the scale of something close to the target scale, and outright disregarding the scale of something so vastly different simply for the sake of fielding them.

I guess I and a few others are the only ones who feel seeing 2 ships, one of which could fit inside the other, in the same size as ridiculous... so go ahead, bring on the crazy scale clash.. let's put a Grey basket ball on the table and call it a Deathstar.. I have a 6 inch long SSD lets set it next to the new CR90 and call it good.. sure that wont look stupid..

If you can't see the difference then I guess there is nothing more for me to say on this subject.. obviously the fanboy mindset is too overwhelming..

/rant.. and done

But there is a difference between "fudging" the scale of something close to the target scale, and outright disregarding the scale of something so vastly different simply for the sake of fielding them.

Ah, but the word "relative" is an interesting one with many applications. They could mean "relative to the fighters" or mean "relative to their position in space."

After all, space is three-dimensional. A star destroyer model could be said as being "farther away, just appearing to be smaller."

The alternative is telling the Imperial players they can forget about ever seeing any of their iconic capital ships on the field. Which comes with a few problems of its own, both gameplay-wise (the Rebels being the only ones with access to big ships can't be good for game balance), fluffwise (the Rebels have the most dangerous fleet of capitals now?) and further strengthening the feel of there being a Rebel-bias.

I;m fine with that, it would be ludicrous to put one on the table .. and for the farther away and looking smaller.. I'm sorry but that .. just makes me laugh.. I don't need an ISD on the table, because I feel it is too large a ship to field in this game PERIOD.. no room for that much wiggle.. if they make one.. I won't but it, but I'm thinking they won't as they have already stated size matters..

Save the ISD and SSDs for a large scale game, like the star trek game.. use them there.. play that if you want huge capitol ships on a game table..

Aside from how not all Imperial players will share that point of view, that still leaves us with a rather glaring gameplay disparity. And that is not exactly a matter of opinion.

A star destroyer model could be said as being "farther away, just appearing to be smaller."

Which makes it so far away it's no loner part of the battle. Plus that type of thing still doesn't work even on a 4x6 foot table, it would still take up so much space there's not much room for anything else. So at that point, it does nothing but take up space.

What point is there in having a model that does that? The problem is quite simply that a ISD is too large both in size and firepower to ever fit into a game where a single model = a single ship.

The alternative is telling the Imperial players they can forget about ever seeing any of their iconic capital ships on the field.

Who wants to see their iconic ship nerfed into oblivion? That doesn't mean there won't be Imperial cap ships, only that they'll use stuff that fits the scale of the game.

They don't need to use ISD's to maintain game balance. In fact they don't need to ever do Imperial cap ships to maintain balance, because balance is based on points, not who has access to what type of ship.

This is a game about star fighters, not starships like ISD's and MonCals.

Also it's not like there aren't imperial ships that they can use, that don't either require breaking the game, or nerfing the ship itself.

Aside from how not all Imperial players will share that point of view, that still leaves us with a rather glaring gameplay disparity. And that is not exactly a matter of opinion.

there are other ships that can be used.. and ISD is just stupid to put on the table.. seriously.. I can't believe this is still an issue.. I guess it's a .. can't see the cruiser for the ISD in the way..

SMH.. sigh..

I'm trying to decide what I would prefer this thread to be: the ever long fights over the Star Destroyer, which neither sides will ever budge, or go back to decrying the Rebel Aces creates massive imbalance and makes you look stupid for flying TIEs.

Problem is that there's not exactly a lot of Imperial capitals that fit the scale. Even a Lancer is almost twice the size of a Corvette. The deceptively small-looking Carak well over twice. And those are among the few smaller ships the Empire has that are reasonably iconic. Unless they also give the Imperials Corvettes or Gunships -which fluffwise did fly under the Imperial flag a lot too- or continue to "relatively scale" them, the list of Corvette-sized Imperial ships is rather small and obscure.

True, and I'm sure they will figure something out... we here can only whine about what we want or dont want... note I said we... lol

True, and I'm sure they will figure something out... we here can only whine about what we want or dont want... note I said we... lol

Well, gotta have something to do in-between games and waiting for the next releases, no?

As long as we keep it civil and fun, its a nice way to pass the time.

I can live with that...

I;m fine with that, it would be ludicrous to put one on the table .. and for the farther away and looking smaller.. I'm sorry but that .. just makes me laugh.. I don't need an ISD on the table, because I feel it is too large a ship to field in this game PERIOD.. no room for that much wiggle.. if they make one.. I won't but it, but I'm thinking they won't as they have already stated size matters..

Save the ISD and SSDs for a large scale game, like the star trek game.. use them there.. play that if you want huge capitol ships on a game table..

Star Trek has no real sense of scale and people get by fine. At first the elitist in you wants to scuff and growl, but in the end you'd rather see the gaming pieces represented in an acceptable way than not at all.

Epic scale will lack the "Epic" if it turns out to be, " who can blow up each others larger than a star fighter frieghter".

Think about it. The ISD can act as a carrying case as WELL as a ship. Two birds with one stone.

No one would have predicted that a B-Wing would be in a Rebel Aces release regarding game reasons but there it is. It's a very popular ship. I'm sure it won out over the Y-Wing for that very reason.

Even if the entire design team was against Victory's, Interdictors or ISD's, all it takes is a memo from up high on Olympus to make something happen. They could have a relative scale for "Small, Medium & Large" Capital ships that each ship fits in.

Count nothing out.

I;m fine with that, it would be ludicrous to put one on the table .. and for the farther away and looking smaller.. I'm sorry but that .. just makes me laugh.. I don't need an ISD on the table, because I feel it is too large a ship to field in this game PERIOD.. no room for that much wiggle.. if they make one.. I won't but it, but I'm thinking they won't as they have already stated size matters..

Save the ISD and SSDs for a large scale game, like the star trek game.. use them there.. play that if you want huge capitol ships on a game table..

Star Trek has no real sense of scale and people get by fine. At first the elitist in you wants to scuff and growl, but in the end you'd rather see the gaming pieces represented in an acceptable way than not at all.

Epic scale will lack the "Epic" if it turns out to be, " who can blow up each others larger than a star fighter frieghter".

Think about it. The ISD can act as a carrying case as WELL as a ship. Two birds with one stone.

No one would have predicted that a B-Wing would be in a Rebel Aces release, but there it is.

Count nothing out.

Do not presume to tell me what I would want or not want... you dont know me... and I reiterate that I would not want to see an ISD nerfed to fit on the table.. it is an asinine thing to do.. the ship is 6x larger than the CR90, to have it sitting beside it the same size is ridiculous period

Just because you want it so badly, doesn't make it reality..

Obviously it wouldn't be the same size. I wouldn't consider a scale down "a nerf", if you understand the term.

Read the quote regarding the Transport and Corvette where they decided on a good size based on playability and the effect of the piece on the game. That gives them room to maneuver. It leads me to believe that epic scale ISN'T locked into 1/270, as was stated. Fudging will occur and you can stick with the orginal dog fighting game if you feel that strongly about it. The larger kits won't effect your gaming experience at all.

As I pointed out, when ships larger than the Corvette are produced, start pondering the effects of people being priced out of certain cards that can be used between the normal game and Epic scale. We'll see how that's handled with the Corvette, but the significance of the topic increases when a kit comes out that is double the Corvettes price.

No they have locked the larger ships into anothe scale, and that's fine.. 1/270 would make even the 2 they have spoiled so far a few inches larger.. and un playable.. to do that with an ISD ... if you can't see it then I cant help you man.. I'm done trying.. but I won't be buying it.. I dont have the money to throw a couple C notes at every expqnsion.. and I dont play in tourneys so it isn't going to really effect my games or my enjoyment of the game...

No they have locked the larger ships into anothe scale, and that's fine.. 1/270 would make even the 2 they have spoiled so far a few inches larger.. and un playable.. to do that with an ISD ... if you can't see it then I cant help you man.. I'm done trying.. but I won't be buying it.. I dont have the money to throw a couple C notes at every expqnsion.. and I dont play in tourneys so it isn't going to really effect my games or my enjoyment of the game...

But if they want to do iconic Imperial capitals, they'll have to fit them into another scale yet again, with Carak's and Lancers being twice as big as a Corvette and all. At which point you have to wonder "where will it stop? Will it even stop?"

No one would have predicted that a B-Wing would be in a Rebel Aces release regarding game reasons but there it is. It's a very popular ship. I'm sure it won out over the Y-Wing for that very reason.

Actually, the B-wing makes a lot of sense for an "aces" expansion. It's a very popular ship right now, but only as a generic ship. The named characters aren't seeing much use, and even the generic ships are locked into a choice of "advanced sensors and/or HLC". An aces expansion gives FFG an opportunity to fix this and make named characters more viable with a powerful and exciting ability on a character everyone's been waiting to see, and a cheaper low-PS character that lets you put a character B-wing in your list without spending 30+ points. And of course it does all of this with the "awesome" factor of a high-end ship with access to fancy tricks that other ships can only dream of.

The Y-wing, on the other hand, isn't as obviously a good choice as people think. It has its flaws, but those flaws are inherent problems with trying to make the Y-wing be more than a point-efficient ion platform. It would be a lot harder to "fix" the Y-wing without more of a redesign than you can do with a couple new characters and a title card. And the Y-wing aces would probably still lack the "wow" factor even they're good at winning games. It's a poor dogfighter, so you're stuck with the boring-but-practical roles of ion turrets and torpedo delivery.

(The obvious choice for an "aces" expansion was of course A-wing and X-wing, but FFG already did the X-wing side of it with the transport.)

It leads me to believe that epic scale ISN'T locked into 1/270, as was stated. Fudging will occur and you can stick with the orginal dog fighting game if you feel that strongly about it. The larger kits won't effect your gaming experience at all.

It's not locked in completely, but it is locked in within a reasonable margin. FFG fudged the scaling a bit with the big ships we know about, but they did it in a fairly subtle way. The ships are smaller and cheaper to buy, but on the table they still look about right compared to the other ships. You won't notice the problem unless you're a hardcore fan with the patience to analyze them looking for scale issues. A star destroyer (or similar huge ship), on the other hand, would have obvious scale issues that even casual fans would notice as soon as you put it on the table. Star destroyers are awesome because they're huge looming wedges of death, a star destroyer that's hardly bigger than a ship that's supposed to be almost invisibly small against its huge bulk is going to be a hopeless disappointment.

And that's on top of the rule scaling issues. The corvette and transport work because they're roughly in scale power-wise with a handful of fighters. A star destroyer would either have to be crippled to the point that a practical number of fighters can be a relevant opponent for it, in which case it's a disappointing ship that nobody really likes, or accompanied by new rules where capital ships are mandatory, fighters represent whole squadrons, etc.