It does a TON for the A-wing, clearly, boosting it right back into elite status.

I agree, and I think this is the real issue here.

The B-Wing will see a minor improvement. You'll see Keyan instead of Ten perhaps, and there's no question that Keyan is a great pilot. But he's still just one pilot and an expensive one at that. He'll suffer the same fate that Wedge does. Sure he's an offensive beast but you have to do something to keep him alive long enough to make use of that offense. Other then that, there doesn't look like much that will really make the B-Wing a much better ship then it already is.

The problem is, the B didn't need any improvements at all in the first place.

The A-Wing on the other hand gets a fairly large boost in usefulness from this pack, a much larger improvement then Interceptors got out of Imp Aces. I'm mostly a rebel player, but Interceptors are my fav Imp ship to fly so I'd like to see them be more popular in the meta. But clearly the Imp Aces pack fell short of doing for them what the Reb Aces pack did for the A's. So hopefully we'll see something at some point that brings Interceptors on par with the A-Wings after Rebel Aces.

I think you point out two issues here.

First, there is no question the RAces does more for the A-wing than the ImpAces did for the Interceptor. I'd like to believe that's not intentional - after all, parents usually make most of their mistakes with their first child, right? They definitely improved the formula a bit, and hopefully that means they'll make it up to the Interceptor with a little something extra down the road, I don't know.

Second, I think this sticks in the craw of a lot of Imperial players simply as salt in the wound. The A-wing getting better treatment than the Interceptor is the wound, and the B-wing, one of the best fighters in the game right now, getting any attention at all rubs salt in it.

The B-wing part I think people are just going to have to get over. Pairing the two new fighters from ROTJ made some thematic sense. Throwing in a repaint of one of the most popular fighters, with a few toys, makes a lot of sense from a marketing perspective. And that's not all bad; as I've said before; the more Aces packs sell, the more inclined they'll be to keep making them. And considering it went Imp, Rebel, it probably doesn't take a mathematician to figure out which faction would be in line for the next bit of TLC.

The B-wing gets a couple good named pilots, but they'll see as much use and dominance as any of the other named pilots do, which is to say some, but hardly overwhelming. I think just the fact it was included in this pack at ALL feels like a slap to Imperial players, simply because, as I keep hearing "the B-wing didn't NEED any help." No it didn't, and honestly it didn't get much help, in terms of the meta, probably because it didn't need it.

The fact that this pack does more for the A-wing than the Imp one did for the Interceptor is a legitimate concern, and it's one that I honestly hope and want to believe will get redressed at some point. I have trouble believing it was so much 'intentional slight' as 'a learning experience' getting the formula right.

Look at it this way - if the B-wing got bundled into this one, who's to say the Imperials don't get another Interceptor or a TIE or something bundled in with the Advanced (god willing) or whatever in their next pack? "Sorry, our bad."

The fact that B-wings were included in this one, on the other hand, people are just going to have to get over. It happened. It does nothing more or less to cement the B-wing as an elite fighter in the game, where it already sat comfortably. This didn't boost it any higher, it didn't knock it down any lower, so people are going to have to just move on. Worry about the injury of the A-wing, but quit paying so much attention to the perceived insult of the B-wing. The B-wing in the pack isn't the problem. The A-wing outshining the Interceptor, is.

@Ravncat

Your logic points 1-3 are all missing arguments with Advanced Sensors in the mix.

@Hero

They aren't missing those arguments. Advanced Sensors were irrelevant to the argument, because I was strictly looking at the drawbacks to Keyan's ability. And specifically the ways in which you can trigger it, which all involve gaining stress. Advanced Sensors doesn't give you stress - by itself it doesn't help Keyan's ability on its own. (However there's no denying that Advanced Sensors helps in concert with PTL or Red maneuvers. Adv Sensors are a good way to mitigate the downsides to Keyans ability, but they do add 3 points to his cost (which is a downside i mentioned.) (Personally, I think Keyan + Advanced Sensors is all you need)

As to your point about focus, Yes, you can Focus and TL with Keyan, but why would you want to ? You won't need to use that focus token for offense if you have stress, (which combined with PTL or a red maneuver you will) - So that leaves the focus option of Keyan strictly for times when he doesn't have stress (Which I wasn't talking about) or Defense. Given that you get a 2/8ths boost to defense on a single die (5/8ths) that you can only use to defend against one attack - it's not all that valuable as an action left strictly for defense, compared to focus as an action that affects multiple dice. How often do you need that extra defense with 1 die? - you save roughly 1 damage every 2 turns as opposed to 3 turns, given the number of things shooting back at you - it may not be worth using PTL for a second action, especially focus and at the cost of your red maneuver options - Using the B-wings dial to it's fullest and sticking to staying out of arcs or destroying the opponent before he can fire is probably a better strategy.

With PTL - Keyan and Ibtisam give up red maneuvers .(whenever you use PTL) - this I feel is more important than Ibtisam being limited to green maneuvers, since you can plan a turn in advance. This was a key focus of my argument. I even mentioned that Advanced Sensors is a way to maximize both Ibtisam and Keyan without PTL, as now you get to use those red maneuvers. (It also goes to show us that PTL + FCS is probably not a combination that B-wings need. until we get weapon engineers as crew aboard them - that will be cool)

As for the mention of Wedge, I never compared Wedge as an X-wing to Keyan as a B-wing, II compared their abilities as offensive threats that your opponent will want to remove from the board. - that was an after point. It helped to point to the fact that unlike Keyan, Wedge has no downside to his ability whatsoever. Keyan ability is purely for offense and requires a stress. That has downsides, which show up in his movement, cost and pilot skill; that was the point. (P.S. wedge can take PTL too - and with an r2 unit, make as much use of it as most interceptors ; ) )

With PTL - Keyan and Ibtisam give up red maneuvers .

Not necessarily. Keyan won't have stress at the beginning of a round. He may still decide to not use PTL this round and run a red maneuver. Off course he is not using his 3 point EPT that round ...

Doesn't the Imperial Aces pack have an Interceptor who has an Area-of-Effect ability denying Focus actions? The Rebel Aces B-Wing turning a "stress" into an "Offensive Focus" a direct counter to that Interceptor's ability?

Yeah - this means that Carnor Jax is also a direct counter to Jake Farell's ability.

With PTL - Keyan and Ibtisam give up red maneuvers .

Not necessarily. Keyan won't have stress at the beginning of a round. He may still decide to not use PTL this round and run a red maneuver. Off course he is not using his 3 point EPT that round ...

Precisely what I wrote

I don't think any pilot should have the ability to convert a penalty (stress) into an offensive boon. That's just ridiculous, even for 29 points.

Too late for that, Ibtisam already has such an ability.

I don't think any pilot should have the ability to convert a penalty (stress) into an offensive boon. That's just ridiculous, even for 29 points.

Too late for that, Ibtisam already has such an ability.

Never tried to put stress on Fel?

I don't understand comments like these. I'm really not sure if you're joking or trolling.. Do you even know what I'm talking about? Neither Fel's nor Ibi's ability removes the stress outright. Thus, they both suffer from the effects of having to remove stress next turn to be utilized to its full extent.

In case this wasn't clear, having to remove stress makes you more predictable in movement, disables your K-Turn and makes it so you can't take further actions unless removed. These are the obvious penalties of having the remove stress, something the new B-Wing pilot outright ignores. On top of outright ignore these, he can convert it into free offensive focus, thus saving him the option to do so with his other actions.

I put out the same challenge again, to you or anyone else prematurely crying foul: Go playtest these fully spoiled pilots for about 20 games, against a variety of otherwise strong lists, and come back and report your data.

As far as maneuvers, we know the interceptor is faster and has WAY more greens. However, from a close-range maneuverability perspective, they're not THAT different. Main difference is the reds on the B-wing dial. So since we're talking about close range, we'll keep it to 1-3 speed maneuvers for this example.

The Interceptor has 10 bank/turns, the max that any ship has (five each way including all 3 turns) 2 straights (speeds 2-3), 6 Greens, (all speed 2s and the 3 straight). But no reds, besides its 3 speed K-turn.

The B-wing ALSO has 10 bank/turns (turns at 1-2), all three straight maneuvers, 4 greens, (1 speed straight and bank, 2 straight), and 4 reds (1 turns and 3 banks). It also has the tightest on-dial K-turn in the game (speed 2), which is a powerful asset at close range. Only one pilot in the game can K-turn tighter, Tetran Cowall from Imperial Aces, at speed 1.

Soontir Fel's ability really needs Push the Limit to activate, otherwise he would have to K-turn all the time to activate it. With Push the Limit, he can easily dance behind a B-wing and give it a powerful focused attack from behind. But, then, the interceptor has to perform a green to clear the stress, while the B-wing performs a tight 2-K maneuver.

Keyan's ability is quite easier to activate, because he has a number of reds on his dial. So, (and I am not judging if it is broken or undercosted or any of that, just making a statement) he takes the biggest limitation of his dial and turns it into a huge benefit. A benefit that stems from the biggest weakness in the otherwise powerful B-wing. It is a fierce close-range fighter. However, Paired with Fire Control System or Advanced Sensors, the ship could already avoid a lot of the limitations of the dial in that it could typically guarantee it had an action anyway. Difference being it would then have to make one of its limited number of greens to clear it out.

There is the only difference between the current status of the B-wing and Keyan Farlander. He benefits from a negative, just as Soontir Fel does. It is arguably a bigger benefit as he has more stressful maneuvers available, and also arguably a worse benefit because that one evasion die is still important to the B-wing's longevity. He does not have to perform a green to clear the stress, but he will not have an action any more than a B-wing typically would. He simply does not NEED to pay the extra cost for a system, which is why he is a costly pilot. And, therefore, if you add a system anyway, he becomes even more expensive.

Now just to keep with the fighters in this example, Soontir and other interceptors can often still fly loops around B-wings without allowing themselves to be shot, but the B-wing can also put down that interceptor quite easily. And the B-wing is a powerful ship against many jousters like TIE Swarms and other Rebel craft.

I don't think anything we've seen is game breaking, and several others have agreed and provided good arguments either way. I am in the crowd that thinks the B-wing didn't NEED to be better, but it makes perfect marketing sense as they have quickly become a popular ship. But, is it really better? It has more options, sure.

Honestly, I think the fact that any or most B-wings can now carry a crew member could be a bigger boon to them than Keyan Farlander. I can't wait to run Buzzsaw B-wings with Gunner and FCS, or a B-wing with navigator or Recon Spec.

We shall see.

Fly on, Wingers! May the Force be with you!

This will be the topic to rule them all... 27 pages now!

Soon it will make that TIE Advance thread "UP" in page numbers in comparison. Lol

Honestly, I think the fact that any or most B-wings can now carry a crew member could be a bigger boon to them than Keyan Farlander. I can't wait to run Buzzsaw B-wings with Gunner and FCS, or a B-wing with navigator or Recon Spec.

We shall see.

Fly on, Wingers! May the Force be with you!

Assuming the title is zero cost.

Blue squadron+gunner+fcs=29x2=58

Rookiex2=42

100 points making the xxbb even more deadly. This isn't options this is straight up power creep.

Or why not

blue squad+fcs x3=72

Bandit+ion missle x2=18

Or why not

Blue squad+gunner x2=54

Awing x3+refit x3=45

Nearly every competitive rebel list is better with upgrades to awings, xwings, bwings and the meta changing z95.

Let's do the same for Hans shoots first.

Hansolo- marksmen+gunner(or chewie)+c3po

3x bandit w 2x ion missiles (or 2x concussion/cluster)

=100 (or 99)

The newer list has more hull+shields, more atk dice, stronger alpha strike, more defensive on falcon, more ships, and the option to ion large/small ships 2x

And you people can honestly can sit here with a straight face and say it's not better lists for rebels? It's not even debatable this is an improvement. And these are just some of the rebel cards we have seen And yet you think the phantom is going to be the magic bullet that makes most imperial lists competitive? Your joking right?

Hansolo- marksmen- gunner-chewbacca

2x rookie pilots

Vs

Hansolo- marksmen-gunner or chewie+c3po

3x bandit w 2x ion missiles or 2x concussion/cluster

The newer list has more hull+shields, more atk dice, stronger alpha strike, more defensive on falcon, more ships, and the option to ion large ships 2x

Okay, that's not " the newer list", that's a lot of newer lists. So first, let's establish a clear basis for comparison.

OLD LIST

• Han Solo (46) + Marksmanship (3) + Gunner (5) + Chewbacca (4)
• Rookie Pilot (21)
• Rookie Pilot (21)

• Han Solo (46) + Marksmanship (3) + Gunner (5) + Chewbacca (4)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

• Han Solo (46) + Marksmanship (3) + Chewbacca (4) + C-3PO (3)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Concussion Missiles (4)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Concussion Missiles (4)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

So comparing Old List to New List 1, the only difference is in the escort fighters. Overall, the escorts have +2 hit points. Their primary attacks, though, are going to just slightly less effective when averaged over the whole metagame: if a ship with 3 Attack does about 1.8x more damage than a ship with 2 Attack, then two ships with 3 Attack do 3.6x damage compared to 3x for three ships at 2 Attack.

Of course, you're not shooting at some "average" Agility, you're shooting at particular ships. Three Bandits will be almost as effective as two Rookies against ships with 1 Agility, but much less effective against ships with 3 Agility. So we've discovered an interesting point: the Bandits are a riskier choice than the Rookies against the TIE swarm.

But we haven't factored in the Ion Pulse Missiles yet. They produce a maximum of 2 damage over the course of the game, so damage-wise they're unlikely to make up the difference even against low-Agility targets--but they do provide some control. And since a single missile can ionize a Large ship, the Bandits do gain back some ground against lists like mirror HSF, double Falcons, double Firespray, etc.

So New List 1 isn't actually better than Old List at all. It has a bit more spine and a bit of control, at the cost of some offensive power (depending on the metagame in general and the specific matchup). That's a good working definition of balance--you make some tradeoffs to move from one list to the other, and they like slightly different matchups.

What about New List 2? That's a bit harder to evaluate objectively, and I'm not going to bother with the math--but it's easy to see that while it shores up its defense even further by adding Threepio, it sacrifices a substantial portion of Han's offensive consistency to get there by dropping the Gunner. (Arguably Marksmanship is no longer a good choice, but that's a different conversation.) The same offensive concerns persist for the Headhunters, but changing the missiles makes them a wild card: you no longer have the control aspect, and the damage could be much higher but is more typically going to be similar.

So overall, although I reserve the right to be surprised, I think New List 2 is actually a bit weaker than Old List: Han's defense isn't typically what loses games for HSF, and I think the shift to Concussion is a bad move for the Bandits.

And you honestly can sit here with a straight face and say it's not a better list? It's not even debatable this is an improvement

Yes, I can honestly sit here with a straight face (although not all the time, because my three-month-old son keeps smiling at me, and it's hard not to smile back) and say that while adding Headhunters and Threepio to the game increases the options for running HSF, it definitely doesn't make it stronger.

Completely agree bwings got much stronger.

Assuming the title is zero cost.

Blue squadron+gunner+fcs=29x2=58

Rookiex2=42

And if the title isn't zero cost, you have to change the list. Maybe it looks like 2x Buzzsaw Blue/Biggs/Bandit? Depending on how expensive the title is, though, that's getting awfully close to running Blue Thunder with the addition of FCS to the Blues, which (1) isn't very scary with Blue Thunder failing to burn up the metagame, and (2) kind of wrecks your point about allowing Gunners on B-wings being totally unbalanced.

And you people can honestly can sit here with a straight face and say it's not better lists for rebels? It's not even debatable this is an improvement. And these are just some of the rebel cards we have seen And yet you think the phantom is going to be the magic bullet that makes most imperial lists competitive? Your joking right?

I agree with you that it's not even debatable whether Rebel Aces and Wave 4 will result in an overall power increase for Rebels, but I suspect we don't mean the same thing by it.

Hansolo- marksmen- gunner-chewbacca2x rookie pilotsVsHansolo- marksmen-gunner or chewie+c3po3x bandit w 2x ion missiles or 2x concussion/clusterThe newer list has more hull+shields, more atk dice, stronger alpha strike, more defensive on falcon, more ships, and the option to ion large ships 2x

Okay, that's not " the newer list", that's a lot of newer lists. So first, let's establish a clear basis for comparison.OLD LIST

• Han Solo (46) + Marksmanship (3) + Gunner (5) + Chewbacca (4)
• Rookie Pilot (21)
• Rookie Pilot (21)

NEW LIST 1

• Han Solo (46) + Marksmanship (3) + Gunner (5) + Chewbacca (4)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

NEW LIST 2

• Han Solo (46) + Marksmanship (3) + Chewbacca (4) + C-3PO (3)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Concussion Missiles (4)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Concussion Missiles (4)
• Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

***So comparing Old List to New List 1, the only difference is in the escort fighters. Overall, the escorts have +2 hit points. Their primary attacks, though, are going to just slightly less effective when averaged over the whole metagame: if a ship with 3 Attack does about 1.8x more damage than a ship with 2 Attack, then two ships with 3 Attack do 3.6x damage compared to 3x for three ships at 2 Attack.Of course, you're not shooting at some "average" Agility, you're shooting at particular ships. Three Bandits will be almost as effective as two Rookies against ships with 1 Agility, but much less effective against ships with 3 Agility. So we've discovered an interesting point: the Bandits are a riskier choice than the Rookies against the TIE swarm.But we haven't factored in the Ion Pulse Missiles yet. They produce a maximum of 2 damage over the course of the game, so damage-wise they're unlikely to make up the difference even against low-Agility targets--but they do provide some control. And since a single missile can ionize a Large ship, the Bandits do gain back some ground against lists like mirror HSF, double Falcons, double Firespray, etc.So New List 1 isn't actually better than Old List at all. It has a bit more spine and a bit of control, at the cost of some offensive power (depending on the metagame in general and the specific matchup). That's a good working definition of balance--you make some tradeoffs to move from one list to the other, and they like slightly different matchups.What about New List 2? That's a bit harder to evaluate objectively, and I'm not going to bother with the math--but it's easy to see that while it shores up its defense even further by adding Threepio, it sacrifices a substantial portion of Han's offensive consistency to get there by dropping the Gunner. (Arguably Marksmanship is no longer a good choice, but that's a different conversation.) The same offensive concerns persist for the Headhunters, but changing the missiles makes them a wild card: you no longer have the control aspect, and the damage could be much higher but is more typically going to be similar.So overall, although I reserve the right to be surprised, I think New List 2 is actually a bit weaker than Old List: Han's defense isn't typically what loses games for HSF, and I think the shift to Concussion is a bad move for the Bandits.

And you honestly can sit here with a straight face and say it's not a better list? It's not even debatable this is an improvement

Yes, I can honestly sit here with a straight face (although not all the time, because my three-month-old son keeps smiling at me, and it's hard not to smile back) and say that while adding Headhunters and Threepio to the game increases the options for running HSF, it definitely doesn't make it stronger.

You also screwed up list one it's not gunner +chewie. It's gunner+c3po. C3po is cheaper and better then chewie in the falcon.

There's 6 yet-to-be-announced products in between FFG product SWX22 and SWX29.

So you think that with Rebel Aces announced for Q3, and Wave 4 around the same time, we're going to get 6 additional releases between now and then?

Ah... uhm... Okkkaaaay. Sure thing.

I wasn't suggesting in the slightest that the six other products are going to be released any time soon at all; merely that they have yet to be announced.

Skimming down the product list, Imperial Aces is SWX21 and it just came out, despite Wave 4 being SWX16 to SWX19. The Transport is SWX11 and the Tantive being SWX22 and no one has any specific date as to when either of them will actually ship. Wave 3 has been out for some time and it was coded SWX12 to SWX15.

The point I was trying to get across is FFG obviously has six yet to be announced ships/packs/products coming. Watching the community bemoaning how horribly balanced everything is an exercise in futility when other products are, I would guess, apparently being developed and tested prior to being announced. To me, it's kind of like reading 3/4 of a book and then complaining that the ending didn't make sense.

I'm not sure "There will be more ships" is really all that much of a revelation.

Nobody expected that the game was going to stop after Rebel Aces. But assuming they're not going to announce more ships to release in between, the next year is a decent Imperial-only release (Imperial Aces), a minor Rebel release (Tantive IV), a spectacular Rebel release (Transport), a presumably-balanced release (Wave 4) and then a spectacular Rebel release.

Given the rate of release, the only way this doesn't translate into a heavy Rebel skew for the next year is if Wave 4 heavily favors the Imperials. That's possible, but I don't really see any reason to expect it.

But then again, I never thought they'd be crazy enough to make a white K-turn, but that seems to be the new black these days, so what do I know?

Gungo, you really need to calm down. Vorpal is in no way lying. Ion Pulse Missiles are nice, but in now way increase damage output. They do ONE damage, no matter how many hits you roll. I honestly would prefer the X-wings in the presented scenarios, because you will be able to do more damage, more quickly. And did you read C-3PO? He only works ONCE a round, not every attack. So yes, the Falcon gets some extra defense, but in no way is he an auto include.

Your list proves that the newer list is better except if all your ships survives a prolonged fight that not ever going to happen. further more the reason I included the ion missles is the fact it does increase the initial damage immediately as ion missles roll 3 atk. Further more you completely ignored how c3p0 will be a better defense boost then chewie on the falcon and it's a massive improvement against the tie swarm for the falcon with its garaunteed evade in every attack. The first list has more shield/hull. More attacks, more control, more ships, and a stronger alpha strike. And your trying to claim that if the original lists survives intact for the entire game it's a slightly better offensive list? Your joking right! When will that ever happen? It doesn't!!! This is not an option it's a straight out power creep and your lying to try to prove your point.

Threepio can be used once per round, not once per attack:

And yes: two X-wings have, typically and overall, better offense than three Z-95s. I could demonstrate it, but I don't like being called a liar in public, so I'm going to go do something more productive before I lose my temper.

Doesn't the Imperial Aces pack have an Interceptor who has an Area-of-Effect ability denying Focus actions? The Rebel Aces B-Wing turning a "stress" into an "Offensive Focus" a direct counter to that Interceptor's ability? If I recall that Pilot was also considered to have an "OP" Ability. If you look at both of them together they both are High Priority Targets because of what they do. They also offset eachother. The Interceptor has high natural Attack vs the low Defense of the B-Wing. The B-Wing's Pilot ability negates the Interceptor's Focus Denial ability. Another way of looking at is his pilot ability is "all red maneuvers become white, must take a focus action after" though that thought requires you to skew your perception a fair deal. The ability is Great. But the platform it is attached to doesn't make it Over Powered. TBH if it was on an X-Wing or E-Wing with their increased avoidance and defence dice I'd be on the OP bandwagon. But a B-Wing is pretty easy to Nuke, even with Biggs nearby. And he's been around long enough that most have was of quickly dealing with him.

Well you can negate Jax's denial by eating the stress, but unless Jax moves far enough away he's still going to prevent you from using it for anything and if you know the dial well enough it shouldn't be terribly hard to stay with the B-Wing. Doing that and being able to shoot it...maybe a bit more so.

Gungo, you really need to calm down. Vorpal is in no way lying. Ion Pulse Missiles are nice, but in now way increase damage output. They do ONE damage, no matter how many hits you roll. I honestly would prefer the X-wings in the presented scenarios, because you will be able to do more damage, more quickly. And did you read C-3PO? He only works ONCE a round, not every attack. So yes, the Falcon gets some extra defense, but in no way is he an auto include.

Ya I messed up on c3p0 however he is better then chewie if the falcon survives more then 2 rounds.

I don't see how the xwings do more damage quickly given even vorpals twisting of stats. 3 atks of 2 are better then 2 atks of 3 in all but vs 3 defense ships. And considering the 2 ion missles have the same chance to hit as the 2 xwings that first round the 3 bandits should always do more damage. Now the only way the original build does more damage is if it doesn't lose a single ship after the first round. And it takes 2 bandits dying after the first round to offset the loss of offense from 1 rookie. And even after all this it still doesn't include the fact that the falcon is better defensively with c3po or include the benefit from ionization of the two missles. It's just a straight up better list unless you want to twist facts like vorpal and pretend your rookies will never die. Furthermore the point of the ion missle is firing at range 3 without penalty or range 2 with the same chance to hit as the rookie. Furthermore ionizing the ship generally takes that ship out of the fight for a turn as it makes it more predictable to avoid it's firing arc. Yes it's only 1 damage, but on a 2 atk ship that is likely the best you hope for in the first place unless you fire at range 1. You want to use the ion missles in the initial volley. Maybe you can make your opponent run into an asteroid. Or maybe you just want to avoid his firing arcs next turn. But the second list is much more survivable and is better able to handle the loss of a ship. Furthermore the second list only costs 99 points you can keep it for initiative or take the millennium falcon title so you can evade instead of marksmen ship if you want. Making the falcon even more defensive if needed.

This is just for the Hans shoots first build with just the rebels cards we have seen. You can do the same for the xxbb list. Improving that list as well. It's not options they are just simply better builds.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again. The reason why people are even complaining about the expansions is the fact it brings much more to the table than Imperial Aces.

As for the topic of the BWing elite pilot. I really can't take people seriously when they say it's not powerful or try to justify its ability and say it's mediocre. Blows my mind in a bad way.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again. The reason why people are even complaining about the expansions is the fact it brings much more to the table than Imperial Aces.

As for the topic of the BWing elite pilot. I really can't take people seriously when they say it's not powerful or try to justify its ability and say it's mediocre. Blows my mind in a bad way.

Take the already powerful xxbb build and give the bwings gunners.

Blue squadx2+gunnerx2+fcsx2=58

Rookie x2=42

100 point build that just made the bwings into assault cannons. This isn't options this is straight out power creep.

Blue squadx2+gunnerx2+fcsx2=58

Rookie x2=42

100 point build that just made the bwings into assault cannons. This isn't options this is straight out power creep.

Blue squadx2+gunnerx2+fcsx2=58

The above list assumes that the B-Wing title card costs zero. There's no confirmation of that.

Blue squadx2+gunnerx2+fcsx2=58

Rookie x2=42

100 point build that just made the bwings into assault cannons. This isn't options this is straight out power creep.

Blue squadx2+gunnerx2+fcsx2=58

The above list assumes that the B-Wing title card costs zero. There's no confirmation of that.

But regardless my point is made. These are not just options. Each of these expansions are making stronger rebel lists.

While the best people can come up with here is that maybe the phantom will be some amazing ship or wait and see what ffg hasn't announced for imperial lists. And it's not like I don't play both factions. It's just that one faction is clearly getting stronger then the other.

Most titles like Falcon, Moldy Crow, ST-321?

There are 3 titles that are 0 and 3 that cost 1-3 points... So I don't know where you keep getting your numbers... It can swing either way. All this thread is doing now is showing no matter what, people will complain, think something is OP, and just generally be negative nancies. Wait for the expansion to come out, play test it, THEN complain. Till then, try to get a little more positive thinking in life.

Ya I messed up on c3p0 however he is better then chewie if the falcon survives more then 2 rounds.

No, because 3CP0 gives you at most 1 extra evade per round, that means you can at best cancel 1 hit. 3CP0 is effectively a 50/50 chance of gaining an evade token for the turn, something that may not even pay off. Chewie lets you discard damage and regain a shield, so best case you have to survive at least 3 more rounds to make 3CP0 better.

I don't see how the xwings do more damage quickly given even vorpals twisting of stats.

Vorpal doesn't need to twist the stats, and would never do so.

As far as the 2 ships with 3 attack vs 3 ships with 2 attack. I'll let someone who's better with the math then I, deal with that. But Vorpal is right in saying the 2 X's have better offense.