Here is how I see it. The Refit in no way is an admission of the A-wing being overcosted. What is happening is that the A-wing's previous role was being replaced by the Z-95. The Z-95 can accomplish the role of cheap missile carrier and cheap filler ship in a squad far, far better than the A-wing. No matter what the A-wing proponents advocate. The 5 pt difference was going to be too much for many people.

Now, with the Refit, the A-wing can compete with the Z-95 for the filler role. As for the Missile carrier, I think it depends on the ship. That's where the A-wing Veteran comes in. And extra Elite Talent can be helpful for getting off a missile. And I'm certain the Proton Rockets are going to challenge the benefits of the Refit.

In short, the A-wings are now going to be seen a lot. And that is a good thing. I still the benefits of a missile on the A-wing. An extra source of damage on your new very versatile ship with 2 Elite Talents is going to be fun. I like the tough choice.

As for Keyan. Dear god. Just stop. Please. He is good. No one is denying it. But he doesn't invalidate anything Imps have gotten or going to get. Stress has never been as big a deal on Rebel ships as it has been on the squishy TIEs. But he is still an expensive B-wing that goes down so, so easily. I don't see how Interceptors can't stay out of his sights.

I think I know what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It's not that it's overpowered or unbalancing. I'm sure the Empire will get their cookie soon enough and now it will be their turn to look OP and making the rebel ship useless and blah blah blah... It's just that, seeing how well I think they handled the A-Wing to bring it worthy of being in a competitive list, it now seems like they failed on the Interceptor part. And since we just got the Imperial Aces, I don't see them revisiting it before a while.

Don't get me wrong, I love what they brought with the Imperial Aces, but nothing in there makes the Interceptor a reliable competitive ship like they did with the A-Wing. It's still a ship that can blow up from one bad defense roll unless you pay the price on a already pricey ship to give it more hit points. Does 1 attack dice and barrel roll but without Target lock and 3 hull instead of 2hull/2shield really worth 4 more points (Green pilot with retrofit 17pts vs Saber Squadron 21pts)? Does being able to equip 2 modifications really the same as being able to equip 2 pilot skills? I don't know, A-Wing seems more reliable to me, but I might be wrong. I don't have the experience of most of you here. Bringing an Interceptor is still a risky move, even with the Imp Aces out. Push the Limit is still the go to skill and quite frankly, with all those stress imposing weapons coming, Bringing it will also be a risky move.

Now to top it all, it now also seems like all the best Imperial pilots (except for Howlrunner) got their rebel equivalent or counter. Farlander has the same ability than Fel, but just better: You lose your stress token so are free to do whatever you want next turn, and if you happen to still have it or get a new one, well it's still an offensive token that you don't lose, so you're still a threat. Meanwhile, Fel has to do a green maneuver next turn or he won't have any actions (aka skrewed in a Interceptor) and if he get a second stress token, he's officially out next turn. It just doesn't seems right to give a pilot a skill better than what was already one of the best, if not the best, skill. The same, fine, but better? At least have some respect. Same goes for Jake and Turr. Remember all those discussions about Turr and what is best on him, VI or PtL, it won't happen with Jake since he can take both.

So that's it. I'm very glad with what they made with the new X-Wing from the transport, the new A-Wing and B-Wing options and I sure hope so they keep up this good work for the others to come. Continue to keep our old ship relevant and not just the new one coming. But, seeing all the potential from the Rebel Aces, I can't help but feel like they missed the mark with the Imperial Aces. They're good, but could have been so much better.

Guys, regarding opportunity cost, you are missing an even bigger picture: if you take a Prototype Pilot with Concussion missiles, you are spending 21 points that could have bought a Rookie Pilot!

AndOne, when creating a second account to try to back up your claims, make sure it has more then 2 posts in the article you are trying to prusade people in, have it less brown nosing, and make it before today, it usually helps your claim. You are basically making more work for FFG by making it a errata to reduce the cost and take the middle slot, then adding an upgrade card to add the missile slot. That is so much more work and can cause more headaches. I've played local games with people new to the game and they had no idea about the FAQ. The solution in place works. I don't see why you have to have it your way.

I am done trying to prove that to you, so no more will be said from me on that topic.

Lol Hujoe.

Before accusing me of something I didn't do, maybe check your facts first. Way to make this a personal attack.

If you look trough, there are plenty of people who agree with me.

The point is that missiles were already marginally overpriced as it is. Now paying two more points for them means they will not be used.

When you have to resort to ad hominem attacks to make your point, I think it's clear that you don't have an answer.

But everyone loves sock puppets.

And how many were still going to use the A-wing as their Missile carrier after Wave 4 anyway? You can get ship with a Missile for cheaper than the Prototype Pilot.

AndOne, when creating a second account to try to back up your claims, make sure it has more then 2 posts in the article you are trying to prusade people in, have it less brown nosing, and make it before today, it usually helps your claim. You are basically making more work for FFG by making it a errata to reduce the cost and take the middle slot, then adding an upgrade card to add the missile slot. That is so much more work and can cause more headaches. I've played local games with people new to the game and they had no idea about the FAQ. The solution in place works. I don't see why you have to have it your way.

I am done trying to prove that to you, so no more will be said from me on that topic.

****, shots fired. Where's my popcorn?

Anything to avoid errata, even printing new cards to fix problems is better. No need to compound confusion and inefficiency by making older product obsolete.

This point reduction card leaves options intact and grants new ones.

I made an observation a few weeks ago about the Tie Advanced. They would more than likely NOT errata anything that they can fix with a future release to bring the item in line, making it useful. Seems that's how they plan on fixing things.

End discussion on whether an errata would be better or not. It obviously isn't.

I am not on an agenda to say missiles are over priced, I'm saying your errata doesn't work and makes no sense. Also many? I can count one, that one being your second account. My points have been put out, you are just ignoring them and ignoring logic, expecting all players to be versed in FAQ and forum reading. But again, dont want to seem like I am personally attacking you. I hate pointless online debates that just end no where and turn into circles so I'll drop out at this time on that subject.

I am just happy with the amount of customization this expansion will bring.

The refit card simply means.. give up your missile slot get 2 points towards your build.. why people insist that it makes a missile cost more is beyond me.. you are looking at it the wrong way..

You can still give missiles to the A-Wing, but putting them on flanker A-Wings, maybe not the best. Reduce the cost of your flanker A-Wings to apply points to your main force.

about 5 pages and 193 comments later...

0+4 vs (-2)+6 Missiles vs Cardaan Refit

End result. Missiles cost 4 points. Missile Opportunity cost 6 points.

It's a matter of perspective, If you are not taking Ordinance Cardaan is the way to go. likewise if you are attempting "Alpha-Wing"-Strikes the best way to ensure it is PTL F/TL + Missile.

So is this +2 opportunity cost for A-Wings a large deal?

No, not if you never intended to use missiles off the platform in general.

Look at the new A-Wing Title Card. 0 points. Expose 4 points. PTL 3 points. Cardaan Refit -2 points. Total 5 points.

Flechette Torpedoes - 3A[TL] "spend TL" 2 points. PTL 3 Points. Total 5points.

yes I know Flechettes cannot be equipped on A-Wings, but Ion Pulse allows you to retain TL and has a better secondary effect which is why it's priced higher (3pts).

Trade Off is instead of additional effects of said missiles a GSP A-Wing can take Expose of "4 - 2 = 2 points" the main benefit is Expose is not a "Fire and Forget" weapon. It stays with you until your ship dies.

Flechette and Expose both would increase an A-Wing's potential damage to 3A. combined with PTL both allow for Focused shots. Flechette requires spending a TL Action. Expose is an Action.

again it is ones perspective on the matter. With the Title card costing 0 points, and the Title adding an EPT, I feel Cardaan Refit was designed to allow the Title breathing room. 2EPTs could easily have cost +2 points.

Imagine if the rolls of the Title and the Refit were reversed.. that would be an even bigger uproar (and greater for the TIE/x1 lobbyist). IF the Title was a decrease of 2 points and the Refit was an "exchange Missile Slot for additional EPT"

The way I see it when combing the Title and the Refit card allows me to think: "Trade Missile Slot for EPT at up to 2pts off"

There's a bigger picture outside of the "it makes missile opportunity cost increase" as mentioned it does. BUT it allows you to shift those points you were already planning on spending to different areas.

17 -2 points for a Prototype Blocker. 15pts.

12 +3 to 5 for a Z-95 Missile Boat. 15 to 17pts.

there a much larger box then the one you're looking into. it's still has the things the box you're viewing has... it's just bigger AND also contains your box.

I think the refit card is going to break the internet.

I think the refit card is going to break the internet.

I think it already has, I can't refresh!

Personally i see this happening...

Keyan will get a ton of use at the begenning but will drop fastly until he is similar to wedge, primary target, need biggs not seen in the many experianced builds.

The Refit will put the A-Wing closer par with ships such as the B-Wing and X-wing, but in the end it still has 2 attack die Vs. the empires most of the time 3 defense die.

I Really personally have not seen any 2 EPT combos (if you have any do tell) and though it is a great upgrade and has so many possiblities, how much will you envest in a little ship like this? Granted it's -2 less then before, but i think the most common thing we will see is the 15 point A-Wing.

I'm more nerves on pricing for the B-Wing title card price. If that thing is 0 Nien Numb will be on par with AdvS for a B-Wing or even if it's 1 point (which is my guess) then we will see it tons.

I kinda like the idea of this ship:

Green Squadron Pilot (19)

• Prototype Veteran / A-Wing Test Pilot (0)
• Chardaan Refit (-2)
• Squad Leader (2)
• Push the Limit (3)
• Stealth Device (3)

25 points. Perhaps set up with a couple Rookie X's and a Blue B.

Keyan has a great ability, hell it might just be the best ability in the game but he is still 29 points naked! No one is going to fly him naked, with just an adv sensor he becomes 33 points or exactly 1/3 your list! He is gonna be even more if you want to use those fancy new crew members or any EPT. All of those juicy upgrades on a 1 agility ship... Want him to stay alive for more than 1 round? Going to have to bring Biggs at another 25 points. So for a measly 58 points you can use Keyan for at least 2 rounds. Better hope those z95's you cram in there to make it a 5 ship build can pull there weight. I think Keyan is a great addition and I'm glad he is part of the game (though he should have been a y-wing pilot since he flew one at yavin!!!) but at the end of the day he has a huge target on his back I can't see him doing well against a swarm or anyone who focus fires him.

(2) Regardless of how any of us feel about errata, the policy is pretty firmly established at this point: the only two cards that have been errata'ed were actually broken. (Meaning they weren't simply unbalanced--the original Expert Handling arguably allowed you to barrel roll without an action, and Daredevil didn't actually cause any stress).

As much as I REALLY don't want to wade into this (how did we even get here?) I really don't agree with this.

There are two other cards which have received errata despite being a long way from broken: Gunner and Luke As Gunner (count them as one if you want). They weren't broken, but they didn't work as intended, so they got errata. There are also several others cases where we have FAQ rulings so far against the printed rules they really deserve to be errata - and honestly are, no matter what FFG chooses to call them.

I'm not necessarily advocating for AndOne's errata-heavy approach to the game here, but the simple reality is we're already living it in a lot of ways. FFG just doesn't like errata, so they call them "rulings".

But to the specific issue at hand: No, I don't want them to take an explicitly fast errata-heavy ruling. FFG honestly can't keep up with their own rules at this point, I believe we're truly better off with them not tinkering with them any more than absolutely necessary.

When dealing with ships, it isn't really prudent to fall back on errata anyways. They've shown how they are going to add on to ships with features that are wanting attention and most people agree with it.

Also, changing a ship which more than likely has thousands of products still sitting on skids waiting to be bought is a bad idea. The game will tough it out until they can do something like they've done for the A-Wing. This is probably a test run to see how people react to it.

=success.

Keyan has a great ability, hell it might just be the best ability in the game but he is still 29 points naked! No one is going to fly him naked, with just an adv sensor he becomes 33 points or exactly 1/3 your list! He is gonna be even more if you want to use those fancy new crew members or any EPT. All of those juicy upgrades on a 1 agility ship... Want him to stay alive for more than 1 round? Going to have to bring Biggs at another 25 points. So for a measly 58 points you can use Keyan for at least 2 rounds. Better hope those z95's you cram in there to make it a 5 ship build can pull there weight. I think Keyan is a great addition and I'm glad he is part of the game (though he should have been a y-wing pilot since he flew one at yavin!!!) but at the end of the day he has a huge target on his back I can't see him doing well against a swarm or anyone who focus fires him.

Well, he becomes 32 points, exactly. 29 + 3.

AndOne, when creating a second account to try to back up your claims, make sure it has more then 2 posts in the article you are trying to prusade people in, have it less brown nosing, and make it before today, it usually helps your claim. You are basically making more work for FFG by making it a errata to reduce the cost and take the middle slot, then adding an upgrade card to add the missile slot. That is so much more work and can cause more headaches. I've played local games with people new to the game and they had no idea about the FAQ. The solution in place works. I don't see why you have to have it your way.

I am done trying to prove that to you, so no more will be said from me on that topic.

****, shots fired. Where's my popcorn?

OPEN FIRE!!!!! ALL WEAPONS!!!! Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!

I do agree with Vorpal Sword that -2 via missile slot is an elegant and good idea, but for me it is almost the only good thing Ive seen so far on this announcement. And I play both sides, dont let my avatar fool you.

On the other hand regarding Starkillers post I must admit I dont want to see Phantoms or Defenders to be same sort of frustrating 'super' upgrades although it would be probably needed to be for balance's sake. And the worst thing is that if their pilots are cooperative like rebel theme is. - surely that would help in competitive play, but at least for me it would be so lame.

Just speculating aloud on the last chapter.

I demand you change your avatar! You may not display the 181st logo and be wishy washy about your rebel scumedness!

I hope they didn't already decide they needed to balance the factions because they made the phantom and defender so powerful that when not even done at the printers yet, they need to balance things...

first: iam no troll or a kid -.- iam 21 years old and veery mature for my age

second i dont have my feelings under control sometimes and my mates know how to deal with that luckely ;P.

the reason why i raged is that iam veeeeeery sensetive <--- (dont know if thats right sorry german my english knowledge isnt advanced enough for specified words to describe some situations)

if iam upset about something then i explode and rage and share my feelings if iam happy about something i do the same iam a ball of happienes and share that with all ;P

Share, but think a little before you post. We're all guilty of it sometimes but don't try to excuse it with "that's just me so it's ok".

The imperials get enhanced scopes and the new missile.

Pretty slim pickings, but then all the Rebellion got out of Imperial Aces is Opportunist.

Opportunist and hull upgrade...

Guys, regarding opportunity cost, you are missing an even bigger picture: if you take a Prototype Pilot with Concussion missiles, you are spending 21 points that could have bought a Rookie Pilot!

"I'd like a burger please."

"For 2 dollars more you can have onion rings with your burger."

"For 2 dollars less can I still get a burger?"

"Yes but it still costs the same"

"How much for a beer and Onion rings?"

"Same as a burger and onion rings".

"Crap now my beer costs 2 dollars more!"

"What?"

"I want onion rings."

"You can have them either way."

"But I want a burger."

"You can still have one."

"But it costs more."

"Nope it's the still the same."

"But I think it costs more."

"Nope. Still the same."