You know what would be silly and amazing. If when FFG prints this Chaardan refit says Awing or Tie Advanced only, and they showed us an earlier version to mess with us. Thoughts?

To apply it on both is a good idea. Just to stir up this mess... It is not. Although this mess does not come from CR, which I believe is generally liked, although mentioned alongside on every 'rant-posts'.

I go to sleep and this generates 5 more pages? Sheesh.

There is some really good stuff here. No doubt. But I don't see an imbalance. Was the Imperial Aces as crazy for the Interceptors as what the A-wing is getting, no. And really, outside good pilots, the B-wing isn't getting a whole lot. Are B-wings with Crew really going to displace Advanced Sensors? I'm also not too concerned about Chaardan completely eliminating Missiles from A-wings. I'm thinking tossing a Missile on the unique pilots will work better.

And seriously, why is no one talking about how Daredevil is now a valid option? So tossing it onto Tycho with Push the Limit.

Not sure why people are fretting so much over this. There is no evidence to the claim these new Rebel Aces pack will be OP.. Aren't players just getting riled up over a few builds that people are speculating about? I'm sure once the squad builder is updated, you can test your little hearts out. I think one people give some of these speculations a test run, I don't think there will be many more issues.

Well that and once FFG released the Imperial Cap ships for "Cinematic Play", that way Imp players don't feel left out.

I'm a Rebel player though, and I can think of a few ways past some of these builds. Jake is kind of reliant on getting a Focus token from his own action or someone else. Which means people will build a Moldy Crow/Kyle Squad to give him focus. Deny Kyle the chance to get close to Jake, no focus actions. Then if you use that new pilot from the Imperial Aces, Carnor Jax..get him to within range 1 of Jake then he can deny him a focus and evade action.

Farlander? Well just stay out of his fire arc, he can't get rid of stress. This means you need to pilot your Tie Fighters better around the big slow B-wing. All while picking him off, because the lack of focus hurts his evade chances. Hitting him with stress causing abilities helps as well, he can only get rid of one per turn.

The only way Farlander can remove more than one, is if you give him the Crew Slot upgrade card, then arm him with a Gunner upgrade. Because then he can get two attacks, based on if he missed his first attack. But the player wastes 5 points or more on a 29 point model, who is going to do that for something that MAY not help him remove multiple stress tokens?

I go to sleep and this generates 5 more pages? Sheesh.

There is some really good stuff here. No doubt. But I don't see an imbalance. Was the Imperial Aces as crazy for the Interceptors as what the A-wing is getting, no. And really, outside good pilots, the B-wing isn't getting a whole lot. Are B-wings with Crew really going to displace Advanced Sensors? I'm also not too concerned about Chaardan completely eliminating Missiles from A-wings. I'm thinking tossing a Missile on the unique pilots will work better.

And seriously, why is no one talking about how Daredevil is now a valid option? So tossing it onto Tycho with Push the Limit.

Well said! I did mention Tycho with Push the Limit and Daredevil WAYYYY back at the start. Maybe it was another thread? I like the idea of being able to completely dodge around ships with him. Taking a boost action, then using Push the Limit to use Daredevil and completely turn behind someone or out of the line of fire. I also thought about giving him Expert Handling instead, letting him barrel roll as well in place of Daredevil. Which do you think would be best for Tycho?

Internet grumbling can't quite overcome how awesome I think Rebel Aces is going to be. At the end of the day the A-Wing is still a firepower 2 low health ship but the cost adjustments are exactly what we've been asking for.

So what happens when an a wing is hit with munitions failure and you throw out the missle slot card. (Because the card type is a secondary weapon slot) and all of a sudden you are running an illegal 102 point squad in a 100 point game.

Pretty sure the refit wouldn't be lost to a the crit - and I'm expecting it will be FAQ'd. You can't really blow off the "Lack" of a missile compartment. I guess unless you are launching Missile-Launching apparatus' at A-Wings, and you manage to get one to stick.

I

And seriously, why is no one talking about how Daredevil is now a valid option? So tossing it onto Tycho with Push the Limit.

And without missiles it costs only '1'.

Double-EPT's are really bad idea IMO from designer. Already at this point, but even more in the future. I dont know the future, sure, but 'I have a bad feeling about this.'

I think it depends on the ship. So far, the best combo I've seen costs 6 pts, and adds 2 stress. Which isn't an issue on Tycho, but on the other ships, a bit of a problem. Even combo'd, Expose is still a bad upgrade.

I

And seriously, why is no one talking about how Daredevil is now a valid option? So tossing it onto Tycho with Push the Limit.

And without missiles it costs only '1'.

Double-EPT's are really bad idea IMO from designer. Already at this point, but even more in the future. I dont know the future, sure, but 'I have a bad feeling about this.'

I get the trepidation but right now the double ept is limited to the A-wing. I've run A-Wings for a long time and PTL and action order has always been incredibly important for their survival. Doubling up the ept seems broken at first but just take a perusal through the worthwhile ept's. Almost every single one of them sticks a stress on you (daredevil, elusiveness, opportunist, etc). This means if you take advantage of the double ept you may very well just die the next round due to limited maneuvers and lack of action. Tycho is the main exception but he's going to be expensive even with the 2 point discount. The best combo that I think will stick around (beyond Tycho) is Green w/ PTL, Adrenaline, Chardaan, Test Pilot Vet.

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

You've made a small miscalc in the last step: Farrell may not perform actions, not even free actions if/when stressed (like after PTL)

From the rule book page 28, 2nd column (near bottom of page):

"While a ship has at least one stress token, it cannot execute red maneuvers or perform any actions (not even free actions)."

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

In your example, when Farrel uses PtL, He has to take a stress token. When Kyle later passes him a Focus token, Farrel still keeps the stress token, thus, he can't perform any actions, including free ones.

Weird.

Tantive IV + X-Wing with X-Wing Pilot(s)

Seem a bit off balance to anyone else? I mean, it's cool that they are releasing announcing lots of new stuff, but... I wouldn't mind some more Imperial stuff... even if it is just more pilots for the Imperial ships we already have.

There's no X-Wing pilots in the Tantive.

The Tantive IV doesn't come with an X-Wing or any X-Wing pilot cards. Only the Transport does.

Since when does the Tantive come with X-Wing Pilots? Last time I checked that's not a thing.

Whoops! My bad. At least you guys are keeping me honest.

My point was that the Rebels now have more pilots/upgrades for 3 of their ships (two of which were already pretty competitive, and one which makes a currently mediocre ship competitive as well).

I am simply hoping to see something similar for Imperials in the future.

Heh, it looks like FFG already made a change to a Rebel Aces card

This is what shows up on the article page:

This is what was there yesterday:

A different name!

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

You've made a small miscalc in the last step: Farrell may not perform actions, not even free actions if/when stressed (like after PTL)

From the rule book page 28, 2nd column (near bottom of page):

"While a ship has at least one stress token, it cannot execute red maneuvers or perform any actions (not even free actions)."

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

In your example, when Farrel uses PtL, He has to take a stress token. When Kyle later passes him a Focus token, Farrel still keeps the stress token, thus, he can't perform any actions, including free ones.

Ah, ****. Thanks guys. So he'd have to stop after Katarn passes a focus token to him, or he'd have to avoid PTL. Either way, he'd only get five actions in a turn unless we can come up with some other way.

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

You've made a small miscalc in the last step: Farrell may not perform actions, not even free actions if/when stressed (like after PTL)

From the rule book page 28, 2nd column (near bottom of page):

"While a ship has at least one stress token, it cannot execute red maneuvers or perform any actions (not even free actions)."

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

In your example, when Farrel uses PtL, He has to take a stress token. When Kyle later passes him a Focus token, Farrel still keeps the stress token, thus, he can't perform any actions, including free ones.

Ah, ****. Thanks guys. So he'd have to stop after Katarn passes a focus token to him, or he'd have to avoid PTL. Either way, he'd only get five actions in a turn unless we can come up with some other way.

Easy. Dutch, Kyle, Garven, Squad Leader. Pick 3 of the above.

Jake takes evade

Dutch gives TL

Garven gives focus, takes a boost

Kyle gives focus, takes a BR

SL can hand out TL or focus action (since Garven and Kyle pass a focus token).

Given, you're not really left with many points for turrets going that way... I count 8 extra points... and two turretless ships =P

Here is the visible text on Jan's crew card. Obviously, there are a lot of words missing. Italics are my guesses to fill the blanks.

Once per _____( turn? when a? )___________ friendly ship ______( at range___? )___________ performs ______________ would be ____( assigned a ________? )________ token, you ____( may assign that? )____________ ship an _____( additional ________ token? )_______________.

Mad lib, go!

Usually between 'once per' and 'friendly ship' the wording is "when a"...

Ah, ****. Thanks guys. So he'd have to stop after Katarn passes a focus token to him, or he'd have to avoid PTL. Either way, he'd only get five actions in a turn unless we can come up with some other way.

Like PTL on Turr, it works fine as long as you're careful about the order. Obviously boost and barrel roll can be interchanged, and you can also substitute Garven + R2-D6 + Veteran Instincts for Kyle:

• Dutch gives Jake a target lock .
• During his activation, Jake uses focus .
• Jake gains a focus token, so he takes a free boost .
• At the start of the combat phase, Kyle grants Jake a second focus token.
• Jake gains a focus token, so he takes a free barrel roll .
• Jake took an action, so he triggers PTL for a second action. This has to be evade .

Jan probably doubles a token that's getting passed from one nearby ship to her ship. So if Kyle Katarn passes a focus token to a ship that Jan Ors is on, Jan's ship would get two focus tokens instead of the one.

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

You've made a small miscalc in the last step: Farrell may not perform actions, not even free actions if/when stressed (like after PTL)

From the rule book page 28, 2nd column (near bottom of page):

"While a ship has at least one stress token, it cannot execute red maneuvers or perform any actions (not even free actions)."

So I think Jake Farrell can essentially get six actions in a single turn. (Apologies if someone's been over this and I missed it.)

• Have Dutch (who should have R2-D6 so he can have Veteran Instincts so his pilot skill is higher than Farrell's) give Farrell a target lock .
• After Farrell moves, he takes his action — he focuses , which triggers his ability. We'll have him do a boost .
• Then we use Push the Limit on Farrell, allowing him to evade .
• At the start of the combat phase, have Kyle Katarn give a focus token to Farrell.
• This triggers Farrell's ability. We'll have him do a barrel roll .

At this point, Farrell has boosted and barrel rolled in the turn, and by the time he can attack, he has a target lock, an evade token and two focus tokens available for him to use. Madness.

In your example, when Farrel uses PtL, He has to take a stress token. When Kyle later passes him a Focus token, Farrel still keeps the stress token, thus, he can't perform any actions, including free ones.

Ah, ****. Thanks guys. So he'd have to stop after Katarn passes a focus token to him, or he'd have to avoid PTL. Either way, he'd only get five actions in a turn unless we can come up with some other way.

Easy. Dutch, Kyle, Garven, Squad Leader. Pick 3 of the above.

Jake takes evade

Dutch gives TL

Garven gives focus, takes a boost

Kyle gives focus, takes a BR

SL can hand out TL or focus action (since Garven and Kyle pass a focus token).

Given, you're not really left with many points for turrets going that way... I count 8 extra points... and two turretless ships =P

Nice. So seven actions (barrel roll, boost, target lock, one evade token and three focus tokens).

Hey, with those 8 points, you could add two Blaster Turrets =P

[edit] Wait, but Dutch, Garven and Kyle all have a lower PS (6) than Farrell (7). So Squad Leader wouldn't work.

For those counting actions, Dutch allows a ship to acquire a target lock, not perform a target lock action, doesn't he?

Ah, ****. Thanks guys. So he'd have to stop after Katarn passes a focus token to him, or he'd have to avoid PTL. Either way, he'd only get five actions in a turn unless we can come up with some other way.

Like PTL on Turr, it works fine as long as you're careful about the order. Obviously boost and barrel roll can be interchanged, and you can also substitute Garven + R2-D6 + Veteran Instincts for Kyle:

• Dutch gives Jake a target lock .
• During his activation, Jake uses focus .
• Jake gains a focus token, so he takes a free boost .
• At the start of the combat phase, Kyle grants Jake a second focus token.
• Jake gains a focus token, so he takes a free barrel roll .
• Jake took an action, so he triggers PTL for a second action. This has to be evade .

It's a good trick, and it ends with Jake doing every action he's capable of performing. But it's also a pretty steep cost: you're likely running something like Dutch + Ions, Kyle + Recon + Crow plus either Ions or Blaster, plus Jake + PTL (+ Refit?). That's at least 84 points, meaning you're down to a Prototype + Refit or a Headhunter to fill the last slot--meaning you have Ions, Blaster or Ions, and two ships with 2 Attack. That's not exactly an overwhelming offensive profile...

That doesn't make it not fun. I'd rather have Garven passing the focus though, Over Kyle. That could actually stat out pretty well.

For those counting actions, Dutch allows a ship to acquire a target lock, not perform a target lock action, doesn't he?

Heh, it looks like FFG already made a change to a Rebel Aces card

This is what shows up on the article page:

This is what was there yesterday:

A different name!

So, after finding out about the news last night, and then spending pretty much an hour reading through all of this, here's what I have to think.

Regarding the A wing:

I'm not too keen on the Chaardan Refit. Not because it takes the missile slot, but because I thought (think?) that the A wing is well costed as it currently stands. Making it two points cheaper does make the decision to take Green w/ PTL much easier over taking a Blue/Rookie though. I'm still not sure that I think it's worth it. At 22 points, the GSP w/ PTL doesn't hit as hard as the Blue, but serves a completely different and complementary role. Now it still serves that roll at 20 points, and more points for other things I suppose are always better, but ... It seemed like it was well balanced before.

The A Wing Test Pilot card I actually think is great. People have been complaining that Arvel needed a EPT since wave 2 (he is green leader, and the rest of green squad has it, and he should be able to outfit DD so he can force collisions). As for the new pilots, knowing that this exists can influence whether they think they should have 1 or 2. It's worded such that the prototype doesn't get an EPT, so you can't have a 15 point EPT carrier, which probably would be a bit OP. As for the GSP and Tycho, it's silly to run them with anything but PTL, and there's no way to really make PTL not as good (though they're trying with adding stress all over the place) so instead, they're allowing you to take PTL AND DD, or EH, or anything else you want. But with the downside of now you have 2 stresses and can only shed one. As far as Tycho is concerned, I could see him getting more play now because he can take PTL and EH or DD (and is 2 points cheaper now!) and doesn't care about all of that stress. For the GSP, I think you're more likely to see PTL and VI or Adrenaline rush. It's kinda like our own Royal Guard unique... We get a PS5 (ps3+VI) generic with an EPT slot. Not bad.

Jake I think is a great pilot. I see him being build with Garven and Kyle, but I don't think that Garven is actually going to be that good of a wingmate (at least without ST or something to get him to attack first). The ability to BR on the A wing is awesome, I've been wanting that for forever. I see him as finally an A wing pilot that does NOT rely on PTL, since he can focus and move anyways. Especially if you're pairing him with Kyle/Garven, since he hates stress and will not want to take any. So they found another way to get an A wing away from PTL...

As for the B wing, first off, we have no clue what the title costs to equip a crew member. Maybe that's why there hasn't been much discussion about it. Lets say for a moment that it costs 2 for the title, then you're Nien costs a total of 3, which seems silly. At a cost of 2, you have to go big or go home, so you'd be looking at Chewy and Gunner and the like. Even at a total cost of 6 points, I could see Chewy being used, though presumably you'd want to put it on someone who wants some additional durability... Lets say a Dagger w/ AdvS (or a blue w/ HLC @ 29) @ 27 points... That puts him up at 33 points. Rather expensive if I do say so myself. And Gunner would be just as expensive as adding an HLC, I can't really see the reason for doing that. But maybe it'll only cost 1 point, which then opens up the opportunity for some cheaper crew members, who don't have a big of an impact, but would diversify the build combinations.

Keyan seems awesome. I'm not going to lie about that. I suspect though that he's the natural counter to Flechette torp swarms. Since we know that the B wings are going to be main targets of those, since it shuts down AdvS and barrel rolls, and makes them rather predictable and they're going to be easy to hit, they'll start getting a second look at as far as whether you want to include so many of them in your list, since they'll just be loaded up with stress tokens and will never get to take an action. Currently, no one can get rid of more than 1 stress per turn... Keyan is the first one that can get rid of two. I see him as more of an unpredictable flying B wing than anything else, which is why people love Ibtisam, isn't it? Keyan doesn't have to worry about the stress as much since he can use it as a focus token. So you'll see him doing 3 speed banks and 1 turns and K turns more often in order to line up a great shot. I can see running him with AdvS to increase that damage either via TL, or BR before the maneuver. And while I don't think that he will really change where the B wing ends up, since he can shed that stress in the combat phase, he will continue to be more maneuverable the next round, where as the standard B wing has to forego AdvS and do a green in order to clear the stress.

Another little addendum, I think this could make Rebel Captive and Kath Scarlet more valuable. I wish rebel captive would give him the stress at the end of the attack though, so in the instances that he doesn't have stress, he doesn't benefit from shooting at the captive. But in general, they will be required to help keep him locked down with stress to keep him from being a hypermobile B wing like he's designed to be.

As for the Rebel vs. Imp balance, I would agree that it seems that the rebels are currently getting more toys. But that's just because of the releases FFG has told us about. I believe they made a mistake announcing details on the Z95 and E wing and not the Phantom and Defender, but that could just be because the Z95 and E wing are relatively ordinary, while the Phantom and Defender and mind blowing! Either way, Imp Aces was spoiled in Sept. Since then, we've gotten info on Rebel W4, rebel aces, and the X wing in the Transport (not to mention the crew cards in the CR90). While it was pointed out that this is labeled as exp29, meaning that in between is W5 and 2 other releases, likely to be imperial counters to the CR90 and GR75. So, the imps will get their turn in the spot light soon, with W4 imp new releases, followed by CR90/GR75 big ship counters, followed by the escort that goes along with them.

PS. As for whether there 'fluff' to support the Chaardan refit using the missile slot, the answer really is no. At no point in time did the A wing get their weapons downgraded. They were continuously upgraded.

I've read about "proton rockets" in several posts here, but I don't find any reference to them in the article. Someone care to specify the source?

I've read about "proton rockets" in several posts here, but I don't find any reference to them in the article. Someone care to specify the source?

If you look on the spread image of everything in the set, and zoom in on the upgrade cards, there are two cards that are titled "Prot__ Rock___." The logical completion is Proton Rockets. However, we do not know the effect or the cost.