Funny that you mention ravn's accounting, because I actually am an accountant. Maybe that's why this bothers me. A lot.

To be honest, I'm really excited about this set, and any new products are good news for the game as a whole as far as I'm concerned. This is just the latest card of a long line that is terribly balanced that makes me think that FFG either has children designing their games or that they do not do thorough play testing at all.

Because this is a game where you can buy the exact cards you need, every card should be decent. This isn't MtG where there is a legitimate reason to make crappy filler commons. With that being said, cards like Arvel, Expose, and Chaardan Refit shouldn't exist.

That doesn't diminish my excitement for the new stuff in the least.

Edit:

And with that I think I'm done trying to argue logic (read: basic economics) on the internet for today. Maybe tomorrow.

Perhaps it's a positive / negative outlook thing, half empty, half full - we agree on the factual 6 point difference, just not the overall viewpoint, 6 for a missile vs -2 for the ship. I probably also have qualms about assuming that the existence the card means that It must be used. (I can see even not using it to get to the 100 point limit if you had no other good use for 2 points and wanted to not have initiative for some reason)

maybe I'm just too tired and pedantic for my own good

OMG .. Just saw it:

There are PROTON ROCKETS in the package!

... Finally I have to buy the Rebel Aces because of the Proton Rockets ...

You converted already!?!

I need ... PROTON ROCKETS ... for my TIE Bomber squad of course.

I need ... PROTON ROCKETS ... for my TIE Bomber squad of course.

We don't even know what they do yet!

I probably also have qualms about assuming that the existence the card means that It must be used. (I can see even not using it to get to the 100 point limit if you had no other good use for 2 points and wanted to not have initiative for some reason)

maybe I'm just too tired and pedantic for my own good

Don't take this the wrong way, but if the best example you can come up with is "I want to intentionally under-point my squad without getting initiative"... uhm... yeah. I think I'll expect the card will be an auto-include.

I pretty sure some Republic players would love to trade for the stuff in the expansion.

wow... and I didn't expect so much hate on the Chaardan refit, I'm sure our Tie Bombers would like to have the Chaardan refit instead...

I need ... PROTON ROCKETS ... for my TIE Bomber squad of course.

We don't even know what they do yet!

Proton Rockets are the Heavy Rockets you know from the computer games. They are the most destructive warheads. Very slow and very powerful. So either they get like 6 attack dice or they will be able to bypass shields like Proton Bombs.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if the best example you can come up with is "I want to intentionally under-point my squad without getting initiative"... uhm... yeah. I think I'll expect the card will be an auto-include.

I agree that it's very likely autoinclude - it just feels weird saying "You must use this card - you must gain access to this card so that you will use it" (Which is probably taking it the wrong way) I would guess that you'd agree though, that prototype pilots not having initiative over an academy pilot swarm is good for the application of boost. (Though you may want initiative for blocking).

Proton Rockets are the Heavy Rockets you know from the computer games. They are the most destructive warheads. Very slow and very powerful. So either they get like 6 attack dice or they will be able to bypass shields like Proton Bombs.

Oh - were those the ones that you had to fly as fast as you could, and get right up close to something to actually hit with them, because otherwise they were really really slow?

Yepp ... I loved them.

If you released them too early, they missed their target or they got shot on their way. If you released them too late - i think your ship got damaged from the blast.

So maybe the Proton Rockets will be Range 1-2 and have a R1 blast. In this case Rhymer would come in handy for a R3 Proton Rocket alpha strike.

Maybe they'll be worth the Chaardan Refit missile tax

Everyone is talking about Rebel Aces

I'm just here waiting for my Imperial customs corvette boxed with a TIE Advanced and a whole bunch of cards to fix the damned thing.

I need ... PROTON ROCKETS ... for my TIE Bomber squad of course.

You did not notiice the small print 'rebel only'? :-p

Just teasing you.

I agree that it's very likely autoinclude - it just feels weird saying "You must use this card - you must gain access to this card so that you will use it" (Which is probably taking it the wrong way) I would guess that you'd agree though, that prototype pilots not having initiative over an academy pilot swarm is good for the application of boost. (Though you may want initiative for blocking).

If I had a new player who liked A-wings and wanted to fly them, I would point him very strongly towards the Rebel Aces box.

Honestly, the problem is that there's just no drawback to it. We'll have to wait for the Z-95 to see if the A-wing still has any place as a missile carrier, but if you don't want missiles, there's ZERO reason not to use the Chaardan on every A-wing you've got.

Will I tell someone "You must use this card!" if they don't want to? Well, probably not - same as I won't tell people they're not allowed to Stealth Device a shuttle if they really want to. Honestly, it's so blindingly obvious I can barely even imagine having the conversation. Is it possible someone will want to fly an A-wing without it? Sure. But I'd lay odds that I could track the number of times that happens - nationally - without ever running out of fingers.

I agree - the Aces pack is absolutely a boon to a-wings. I think Tusken's going to have to make an addendum to his A-wing article after these come out!

I wonder who the other two pilots are.

Anyone have guesses on what the face down card is?

I'm not getting you here... ... ... so it's preferable not to have the Chaardan refit because that makes the discrepancy between having a missile and not having a missile even more? Is this what the argument is about?

No. The question is what it costs to equip a missile.

If you want to put a Concussion Missile (for example) on an A-wing, it effectively costs you 6 points to do so. Some people seem to want to ignore the savings you're giving up in the process and still call it 4 points, but that ignores what would otherwise be a guaranteed savings.

the CR only grants the -2 if you use it.. if you don't the cost has not changed.. you just gain no benefit. But that doesn't make the cost of a missile 2 more.. I see what you are trying to do but that's not how it works.. you get the benefit only if you don't use missiles.. which I understand many people don't so no biggie and ... cost 2 less.. but if you use your missile slot there is no change of cost because you can't equip CR and a missile.. so no increase in cost just normal cost.. fancy math doesn't change that..

Wow!

Having to read through 11 pages of comments kinda makes it all blurr into " blah, blah, blah " after a while.

To sum up:

Poor Empire they need more love in the form of more releases . I agree. I really want a BIG SHIP or two.

Wow, cool new Rebel Aces.

These new Rebel Aces need to be better.

These new Rebel Aces have destroyed the balance of the game .

How will the Empire ever win a game again.

I'm not used to the rules yet so I can't really comment on the brief glimpses of cards. Personally, I like to play games with something before I decide whether it's good or bad. I'd never judge something that isn't even released on the basis of a few pictures.

Now in 11 pages I noticed nobody wants to swap an A-Wing for a B-Wing. Does nobody want my future A-Wing Ace in return for a B-Wing Ace?

I must say I hate power creep. And both PS7 pilot are... incredible.

Jake Ferrel has not just been given a free action, but an action outside of A-wings repertoire: A barrel roll as a bonus. Surely there is a card which gives +1 attack too as Interceptors have that also? (ok, that was sarcasm)

And Farlander... Practically white K-turn. Only better. Continuous looper if there are targets, + focus for attack on top. Uuh, whatever. normally you have to PAY to get rid of some nasty negative effect, he gets rewarded if he decides to throw away the stress token. (Gee, should I? That's a tough one...)

I play 50-50 on both sides, but to explain my utterly negative attitude here: I used to play Magic the Gathering several years ago, but I got fed up after they mixed the colors (Ray of command <-> Act of Treason for example) there was very little difference between opposite sides. That game went dull grey. Now after seeing Rebel swarm incoming, rebel Interceptor, rebel TIE Defender (if it even has the rumored white-K, I doubt) I'm starting to feel unconcerned.

I actually liked Imperial Aces expansion; there were no pilots that were mindblowing, just different (and really tricky to use succesfully without biting your own nose) but after seeing the Transport's pilots universally great skills and this expansion with again astonishingly great skills... I don't know what to think.

thats how i feel man iam just collecting empire and iam proud that i bought 4 imperial aces pilots and to use these new aces they are alot of fun and gave me many squad options but this is just i dont know the rebels took steroids thats for sure

Anyone else wonder if the Y was not included because they already have alternate plans for it?

If not, I will be really upset. The B is already the brute of the game... I hope they didn't just do this because OMG PEOPLE LOVE B WINGS!

I have mixed feelings towards 'Chaardan' refit.

The way it is implemented, seems to imply a declaration like:

"A-wings without missiles were a bit overcosted.... However, A-wings with missiles are rightly costed"

This type of upgrade opens a gate that will shake the foundations of game's balance... Because, right now, every other ship that could equip missiles/ordnance but does not, is already suffering the same opportunity cost than the A-wing, but is not compensated for it.

If I field an Advanced TIE without missiles... Shouldn't also get a discount for not being as 'powerful as intented'? A Bomber without ordnance, is not less effective than 'planned to be'?, and thus, also deserves a discount?

i hate it that rebels got a turr phenir clone with same pilot skill and kinda same pilot ability

i really hope that they dont get any other clone like pilot like howlrunner or dark curse and so on that wouldnt make sense

i hate it that rebels got a turr phenir clone with same pilot skill and kinda same pilot ability

i really hope that they dont get any other clone like pilot like howlrunner or dark curse and so on that wouldnt make sense

True. Likewise I'd hate to see for example Garven/Dutch/Jan copies on imperial side. Sides should be different style but still balanced. It's hard, but so it has to be also. Even if I really love to see Z-95 especially for themed missions , I'm not so sure I want to see same kind of swarm on both sides.

I need ... PROTON ROCKETS ... for my TIE Bomber squad of course.

We don't even know what they do yet!

Who cares? Addiction has no reason.