haha yeah sorry about the passion ive been observing for a while and this just got to me, im sure this argument will extend into later tonight when I meet up with my fellow fighter jockies, not trying to offend because like everyone says the games about having fun, if only it didn't take up so much of my income!
Edited by Ghost VaderQuestion about Lorrir's stressful bank
I'm not sure "passion" is the word you're looking for there 
It is an unfortunate ruling as far as Yorr's utility is concerned, but it does make sense. And it honestly doesn't impact all that many abilities - Elusiveness and Opportunist are the only ones currently, and one of those is complete trash. It's really not worth this much "passion".
Let's clarify a couple of things here quick.
First, Vader, grab a dictionary and look up "paraphrasing." I'll wait. It is not "adding words to cards," or twisting the meaning, it is couching something in slightly different, usually simpler, terms, in order to express the general meaning or gist of an idea to someone who is having trouble with it. That's what I was attempting to do for the OP.
Second, there IS an FAQ ruling on this exact type of interaction. Page 7 of the FAQ details the interaction between Soontir Fel - whose ability triggers on receiving a stress token, and Yorr, who intercepts them.
Q: If Soontir Fel would receive a stress token,
but Captain Yorr receives it instead, does
Soontir Fel’s ability still trigger?
A: No.
So if you're going to demand an FAQ ruling, you should probably go make sure there isn't one.
Third, for someone who accused me of adding words to cards, you have been determined this whole time to IGNORE all of the words on the cards which prove you wrong - which is, frankly, most of the important ones.
Let me paraphrase Lorrir: You may receive one stress token in order to...
Let me paraphrase Yorr: When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 would receive a stress token, you may receive that token instead.
This is not a timing issue. It is a simple issue of English. Lorrir's ability, like Fel, works when he receives a stress token, agreed?
Yorr's ability says "when another friendly ship would receive a stress token, you may receive it instead."
The very simple wording of Yorr's ability makes it clear - and the ruling should, if it does not, that Yorr prevents Lorrir from receiving a stress token, because when Lorrir WOULD have it assigned to him, Yorr takes it INSTEAD. Instead means instead of, not in addition to, not takes it from him - that stress token goes from the token pool, heads for Lorrir, and if Yorr's ability is used, redirects it to Yorr instead. At no point in the process (Lorrir would receive a stress, but Yorr receives it instead) does Lorrir ever receive a stress.
Yorr's ability says "when another friendly ship would receive a stress token, you may receive it instead."
The very simple wording of Yorr's ability makes it clear - and the ruling should, if it does not, that Yorr prevents Lorrir from receiving a stress token, because when Lorrir WOULD have it assigned to him, Yorr takes it INSTEAD. Instead means instead of, not in addition to, not takes it from him - that stress token goes from the token pool, heads for Lorrir, and if Yorr's ability is used, redirects it to Yorr instead. At no point in the process (Lorrir would receive a stress, but Yorr receives it instead) does Lorrir ever receive a stress.
If Lorrir never receives a stress, his ability never triggers. Both Fel and Lorrir's abilities are contingent on them receiving a stress token. Yorr's entire ability is to stop that stress from ever reaching his friends. Normally that is a good thing, but with abilities that require you to take a stress, or only trigger when you do take a stress, he interferes with that.
If he took that stress from them, it would work. Because his wording makes it clear he takes that stress in their place, they never get stressed and their abilities don't function.
If he took that stress from them, it would work. Because his wording makes it clear he takes that stress in their place, they never get stressed and their abilities don't function.
Now, if FFG were to ever errata Yorr, to say that he removes that stress token FROM a friendly ship, he would absolutely work the way you are arguing, and would be a more useful character for it. He would be the best of both worlds, since he would allow the ability to trigger but still remove the negative consequence of it. I doubt they will, because they hate errata, and they have already ruled once on how his ability interacts, and probably will again with an update here soon, specifically mentioning Lorrir.
But as of right now that is just not how he is proven to work.
alright well I guess you've made your point but the ridiculousness remains all the same! Having would in there does seem to indicate that he would never receive it, still having initiated the action in which the stress token enters the play field seems enough for me, saying he would need to have stress in order to perform the action goes against the base of the game in which stress prohibits actions, it is completely backward.
alright well I guess you've made your point but the ridiculousness remains all the same! Having would in there does seem to indicate that he would never receive it, still having initiated the action in which the stress token enters the play field seems enough for me, saying he would need to have stress in order to perform the action goes against the base of the game in which stress prohibits actions, it is completely backward.
Must... resist... urge... to... facepalm!!!
To address the one and only meaningful point there - which is odd, because you've been pitching a fit over Yorr not being able to help Lorrir, now you think Lorrir's ability shouldn't work at all - you can't take actions while you're stressed. But once you've started that action, gaining a stress in the middle won't interrupt it. It's already on the way. Actions which can grant stress as part of their resolution are not new to Lorrir, and the timing works fine.
So if your point is to be taken seriously your saying Lorrir is gaining the stress as he performs the action, not requiring the stress to perform the action, therefore there should be no issue transferring it Yorr, but according to FFG and the crooked wookie if there is no stress assigned to the character they cannot perform the action, there fore stress is required to perform the action
Edited by Ghost VaderSo if your point is to be taken seriously your saying Lorrir is gaining the stress as he performs the action, not requiring the stress to perform the action, therefore there should be no issue transferring it Yorr, but according to FFG and the crooked wookie if there is no stress assigned to the character they cannot perform the action, there fore stress is required to perform the action
You declare the action. Your action is a barrel roll. As part of that barrel roll, Lorrir may receive the stress to modify how you complete that barrel roll. If Lorrir doesn't receive the stress, for any reason, he can't use the modified barrel roll. He would then complete the barrel roll normally.
Stress is NOT required to perform the action, only to complete it differently than the base rules.
Edited by BuhallinSo if your point is to be taken seriously your saying Lorrir is gaining the stress as he performs the action, not requiring the stress to perform the action, therefore there should be no issue transferring it Yorr, but according to FFG and the crooked wookie if there is no stress assigned to the character they cannot perform the action, there fore stress is required to perform the action
Again, it's the wording that is very important. Lorrir is already performing the barrel roll action when he uses his effect. He is allowed to change the effect of his barrel roll in exchange for a stress token, but receives the stress token after he finishes resolving his action. Declare action --> Use ability --> Take a stress token
Fel on the other hand, is not performing an action at all. He is "assigned a focus token" when he takes a stress - that is very, very different than performing a focus action - even a free focus action - which a stress would prevent. That's why he's worded that way.
Now, if you want to argue that Yorr would be a lot more useful if they'd worded him differently, or complain that the Imperials seem to get the short end of the stick on some of these rulings (Yorr with Lorrir or Fel, or Kagi not overriding Fire Control Systems), you could certainly make a case. They do seem to get sort of screwed in those rulings, and only FFG could answer why they wanted them to be resolved the way they are.
But 'ridiculous' or not, they've made their intent on those abilities seemingly pretty clear.
Im throwing my lorrir card in the garbage
Im throwing my lorrir card in the garbage
Or you could just not fly him with Yorr, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.
Correction - or fly him with Yorr and simply not use Yorr's completely voluntary ability to screw Lorrir over.
Edited by CrookedWookieWords fail me.
Yorr has turned into one of my most useful ships I was really hoping to add Lorrir to his fleet, I have a few extra of him lol im sure someone will find a creative way to use him
I feel defeated lol like I just lost a match
Yorr can be an extremely useful ship.
He's just a bit TOO efficient with his ability for the good of some of his fleetmates.
... your saying Lorrir is gaining the stress as he performs the action...
No, we are saying that Lorrir is gaining the stress TO perform the action (with the bank template). Without the stress token, there is no cost paid to use the bank template. No cost paid=no bank template.
Edit: evidently I took too long composing my reply. (sigh)
Edited by LappenlockerLittle late there lappen
There are many things in this game hat cause stress and there will be many things added to the game that will cause stress, Yorr still has a very important use like giving actions to K turning ships or to ships that have red manoeuvres. I dont see why you would throw out a card because its synergy doesn't work with another. Thats like throwing out ten numb because his ability doesn't work with HLC.
Lorrirs ability looks to be extremely useful and with say Jendon as his wing mate could help him out a bit more by throwing hima target lock after he gets into someones rear and blasts him with 4 shots. Never under estimate the power of the Dark Side.
just sitting hear in my ethics of mental health class
I lol'd.
Yorr is the single, only, lonely one ability that the empire has to deal with all the extra stress that is coming with the new expansions. Even so, his ability doesn't eliminate extra stress per round (like rebel ships do), he simply re-distributes it, but all the stress still has to be eliminated token by token with green maneuvers.
Is Yorr valuable?... Sure as hell... Mostly because the empire has nothing better / else.
That said, I also hate how Yorr mechanic was implemented, because it produces time-flux paradoxes:
If Lorrir triggers his ability, but Yorr takes the stress, Lorrir cannot trigger its ability because he hasn't recieved stress... But If Lorrir didn't trigger his ability, why do Yorr has stress?
IMO, it would have been much more efficient letting Yorr pulling stress tokens from nearby ships at the end of the combat phase.
Exactly the game is trying to simulate space combat, putting in a mechanic where stress stops you from performing actions make sense, having a pilot ability conditional on him being stressed before hand, which enables him to perform a unique action seems contrary to the feeling x-wing is trying to give, what would make much more sense is he becomes stressed as a result of the extra step he is taking, the timing is off in my opinion, unless there trying to say that due to extra stress the pilot performs an ability that is encouraged by the fact he is stressed, which I personally don't really like unless they begin implementing it a lot more with other pilots and abilities, either way this neuters the potential of Yorr greatly, I have a feeling people arguing to limit Yorr are primarily rebel scum. Love Live the Empire
I have interpreted those abilities as the pilot is doing something reflexive, that he is suchlike good pilot that when the unexpected happens, he has trained his body to automatically respond with some funky move.
It's not a perfect rationale for why someone needs stress to do something, but it's the best I've got.
That said, I also hate how Yorr mechanic was implemented, because it produces time-flux paradoxes:
If Lorrir triggers his ability, but Yorr takes the stress, Lorrir cannot trigger its ability because he hasn't recieved stress... But If Lorrir didn't trigger his ability, why do Yorr has stress?
Lorrir did still trigger his ability. Another ability interfered with its ability to complete, though. "You may receive 1 stress to..." is a prerequisite that you failed to meet, so you don't get the benefit. Not getting the benefit != ability never activated.
Yes, I know why the interaction Lorrir-Yorr works that way. It's only that I find a bit silly that a Pilot who is supposedly to help with stress, cannot do so without hampering their teammates half of the time.
Only for red maneuvers, and the occasional abilities whose wording allows for it... Well, thanks. Less than that would be nothing, as I said, so I will gladly take it.
Yes, I know why the interaction Lorrir-Yorr works that way. It's only that I find a bit silly that a Pilot who is supposedly to help with stress, cannot do so without hampering their teammates half of the time.
He is an Imperial. He does not have any mates. Hence he does not help others. (Rebel propaganda)
I mean the skills are generally built that way between factions. I'm ok with that as long as there is a difference on different sides.