So I have been thinking recently that the b-wing meta is just too much for the builds i used to like. 2b2x, 2b 1 Falcon, 2a2b1x and others are ripping apart almost everything I build and I dont build crap and cant stand the amazingly effectiveness of interceptors until they pop in one hit. Like what happened to me in a tournament last week. . I just dont like playing those rebel bruisers myself. So my question is if the Tie Swarm is still viable against those big rebel swarms. If they are still viable I would like to hear a few Tie Swarm setups that you guys like. My only other Build I think may be good against those big lists is chewy and lando both with gunner and both with EH. Thanks in advance.
The Good ol' Tie Swarm
TIE swarm is always good. 7 APs plus Howl or even a straight named swarm are all effective. Big damage potential and blocking at the same time. Plus, you don't even have to start sweating until you've lost 3 or so. Only problem is if the green dice decide to hate you and then those TIEs can disappear quicker than two winks of a coal miner's eye.
Short answer? Yes.
Long answer? Yeeeeessssss.
In depth answer? Low Agility = Swarm Candy. Concentrate fire, and you're in the money.
Tactics time:
I keep a running percentage in my head, as to how much of the total fleet they've damaged, vs how much I've damaged.
I weight it thusly:
Key ships (such as Howlrunner) gain a weight bonus. As the effectiveness of the ship goes down, so does the weight bonus.
Non-lethal damage accounts for 50% of the ship's total weight, and the last HP is the other 50%.
Warning: Math-Wing detected.
Font-shrinker engaged.
Tabber engaged.
TL:DR resumes at 14 point on left justification
.
So, in my 7 Tie Howlrunner swarm, my starting weight is:
Howlrunner (12.5%, 6.5%, 6%), losing 2%, 1%, and 1% for each lost Tie across the board
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Rather conveniently, this weighting system tends to correspond directly to the point cost of the ships ;-)
A more difficult challenge lies in applying a similar weighting system to my opponent's fleet, and what determines a "Key Ship".
Using this modular breakdown, I am free to prioritize in the following order.
- It allows their fellow ships to be more effective (Howlrunner, ships with Swarm Tactics, Squad Leader, or DTF)
- It negates the effectiveness of my fleet (Ship with R2-D2, extremely effective blockers/controllers)
- It damages my fleet more effectively than its fellow ships (Wedge, ships with 3 attack in a swarm of 2s, et c.)
- It is more fragile than its fellow ships (Wounded ships, Ships with lower Agility)
- It costs more points than its fellow ships (An extreme tie-break.)
Breaking down your example fleets, we've got BBXX. Assuming it's a Bloody Daggers fleet, rather than a Blue Thunder or another form, the breakdown goes thusly:
The B-Wings have a slight edge in the Blocking dept, so gain an advantage in part 2
The B-Wings have a slight edge in the Fragility dept (only have 1/2 the Agility. Yes, there seems to be a disconnect; I'll get back to this)
The B-Wings tend to cost more points than the X-Wings, depending on the upgrades used.
The 27/23 breakdown of points for Bloody Daggers seems sufficient for my analysis. Let's look at how that breaks down with the percentages.
B-Wing (13.5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1.5)
B-Wing (13.5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1.5)
X-Wing (11.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2.5)
X-Wing (11.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2.5)
With your BBYt example, if they're running a Named Pilot, no upgrades on any ship, and have proven consistently able to fire with their B-Wings, damage is largely equalized, and my prioritization should be even across the board meaning my shots are better used killing the B-Wings than the YT. However, if the YT is doing something annoying with Gunner, their damage goes up, and become a larger priority.
Now, the use of this method is for a simple purpose:
When I have a greater number of "Points" on the board than they do, I focus. When I have a lesser number of "Points" on the board than they do, I evade. Simple as that.
Barrel-Rolling is a matter for a future discussion
TIE swarm is always good. 7 APs plus Howl or even a straight named swarm are all effective. Big damage potential and blocking at the same time. Plus, you don't even have to start sweating until you've lost 3 or so. Only problem is if the green dice decide to hate you and then those TIEs can disappear quicker than two winks of a coal miner's eye.
Had a first game with a Black Squadron flight (5 of them, with the three named black squadron pilots, all with stealth devices), stick three B-wings with fire control and heavy lasers.
I lost, but due to awful luck - Backstabber faceplanting into an asteroid (critical, two damage) rather than dropping into range 1 on a heavily damaged B's stern quarter - and poor manouvring - still getting used to flying TIEs again after being spoiled with multiarc firesprays for ages.
I can say that the big thing with B-wings is that 1 defence dice - it means that even the lightly armed TIE fighter can shoot them full of holes very quickly. And yes, they're tough, but every so often a TIE decides that it is just not going to die. Dark Curse essentially buzzing the front of the squadron and taking all three fighter's primary attacks without even losing his stealth device was pretty cool.
Want to ruin a Bwings day, pack a few sets of Cluster Missiles, stir them at close range, season to taste.
I love B wings and HATE Cluster Missiles!
I went 4-1 in a Store Championship 10 days ago with a swarm.
Only loss was in the final against Chewie, gunner +2 FCS daggers, we went to time with Chewie on 3 hull against 3 Ties with no damage.
Opponents played : bloody daggers (twice), Chewie+2 B-Wing (above), Fel+dark curse+Firespray with options, 4 Tie-I+1Tie advance with assault missiles.
I played the 8 tie swarm : 4 Obsidians + 4 Academies.
Tie fighter swarms are definetly a very good option against low agility opponents such as B-Wings and Falcons.
However they will probably kill any ship of their choosing in 1 or at most 2 shooting phases (firing before you) so I find it best not to have too obvious targets.
I've been contemplating what 7 Academy Pilots, all with targeting Computer could do? I find that I rarely hit with Tie attacks... Somehow every time I roll 2 hits, the ship gets two evades, or only loses a shield on a B-wing, etc. And I miss too often. Focuses don't seem to help much, but target lock could be amazing. Thoughts?(The ridiculous cost of this list aside...
Thinking out loud about TL - it eats an action, so no Focus that turn. At range 1, you could be hurting as you're going to eat a 4 attack from a B-wing. I'd say you need to hit it at range 3 then, for the least negative effect. This means you probably aren't going to use it that turn though, as you'd be 2 vs 2, attack vs defense die against a B. So the hard part then comes in staying at range to lock, but not over shooting. The TIEs speed works against you there.
However, it may be worth it. TL + Focus is brutal, especially if you're attacking a low agi enemy.
Edit: Nightbeats with TL would be pretty sweet. You get an easy Focus and then action for the TL. And of course any TIE with an EPT could take PtL and nail the TL as well.
Small Swarm:
Black Squadron Pilot (19)
TIE Fighter (14), Push the Limit (3), Targeting Computer (2)
Black Squadron Pilot (19)
TIE Fighter (14), Push the Limit (3), Targeting Computer (2)
Night Beast (17)
TIE Fighter (15), Targeting Computer (2)
Howlrunner (23)
TIE Fighter (18), Squad Leader (2), Stealth Device (3)
Mauler Mithel (22)
TIE Fighter (17), Push the Limit (3), Targeting Computer (2)
Multiple Tie fighters are the bane of the B Wing. I feel confident when I see 2+ B Wings lined up against me when I run swarm. This includes 3B2A, etc.
Falcons are another story. I'm not as confident that I can focus fire them as easily, as I'll have to split up diring arcs to cover multiple angles. Though, blocking works well.
X wings are more like 50/50. That 2 agility is tough!
Multiple Tie fighters are the bane of the B Wing. I feel confident when I see 2+ B Wings lined up against me when I run swarm. This includes 3B2A, etc.
Falcons are another story. I'm not as confident that I can focus fire them as easily, as I'll have to split up diring arcs to cover multiple angles. Though, blocking works well.
X wings are more like 50/50. That 2 agility is tough!
How odd - when I'm playing my Bwings, I love seeing TIE Swarms. I know I'm likely to kill 1-2 every turn.
Swarm is and will be a thing always.
The higher PS 6-7 pilot swarms can and should eat up all those PS 2 Bwings (and if you go named swarm the PS 4 too). But you really have to get them down on that first pass because you already "lost" a ship. 8 hp bwing with 1 AG vs. ~14 ATT dice with rerolls should not live very often. If it's all range 1 you can conceivably kill off 2 on the first pass before they even get to fire with a lucky crit (they can throw 19-22 dice)...
I prefer the 6-7 swarm with higher PS myself for this exact reason.
Short answer? Yes.
Long answer? Yeeeeessssss.
In depth answer? Low Agility = Swarm Candy. Concentrate fire, and you're in the money.
Tactics time:
I keep a running percentage in my head, as to how much of the total fleet they've damaged, vs how much I've damaged.
I weight it thusly:
Key ships (such as Howlrunner) gain a weight bonus. As the effectiveness of the ship goes down, so does the weight bonus.
Non-lethal damage accounts for 50% of the ship's total weight, and the last HP is the other 50%.
Warning: Math-Wing detected.
Font-shrinker engaged.
Tabber engaged.
TL:DR resumes at 14 point on left justification .
So, in my 7 Tie Howlrunner swarm, my starting weight is:
Howlrunner (12.5%, 6.5%, 6%), losing 2%, 1%, and 1% for each lost Tie across the board
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Rather conveniently, this weighting system tends to correspond directly to the point cost of the ships ;-)
A more difficult challenge lies in applying a similar weighting system to my opponent's fleet, and what determines a "Key Ship".
Using this modular breakdown, I am free to prioritize in the following order.
- It allows their fellow ships to be more effective (Howlrunner, ships with Swarm Tactics, Squad Leader, or DTF)
- It negates the effectiveness of my fleet (Ship with R2-D2, extremely effective blockers/controllers)
- It damages my fleet more effectively than its fellow ships (Wedge, ships with 3 attack in a swarm of 2s, et c.)
- It is more fragile than its fellow ships (Wounded ships, Ships with lower Agility)
- It costs more points than its fellow ships (An extreme tie-break.)
Breaking down your example fleets, we've got BBXX. Assuming it's a Bloody Daggers fleet, rather than a Blue Thunder or another form, the breakdown goes thusly:
The B-Wings have a slight edge in the Blocking dept, so gain an advantage in part 2
The B-Wings have a slight edge in the Fragility dept (only have 1/2 the Agility. Yes, there seems to be a disconnect; I'll get back to this)
The B-Wings tend to cost more points than the X-Wings, depending on the upgrades used.
The 27/23 breakdown of points for Bloody Daggers seems sufficient for my analysis. Let's look at how that breaks down with the percentages.
B-Wing (13.5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1.5)
B-Wing (13.5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1.5)
X-Wing (11.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2.5)
X-Wing (11.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2.5)
With your BBYt example, if they're running a Named Pilot, no upgrades on any ship, and have proven consistently able to fire with their B-Wings, damage is largely equalized, and my prioritization should be even across the board meaning my shots are better used killing the B-Wings than the YT. However, if the YT is doing something annoying with Gunner, their damage goes up, and become a larger priority.
Now, the use of this method is for a simple purpose:
When I have a greater number of "Points" on the board than they do, I focus. When I have a lesser number of "Points" on the board than they do, I evade. Simple as that.
Barrel-Rolling is a matter for a future discussion
This is great stuff. I think it calls for it's own topic and discussion.
Prioritizing targets is one of the toughest things for me personally and it's what I'm focusing on improving in my game right now.
Short answer? Yes.
Long answer? Yeeeeessssss.
In depth answer? Low Agility = Swarm Candy. Concentrate fire, and you're in the money.
Tactics time:
I keep a running percentage in my head, as to how much of the total fleet they've damaged, vs how much I've damaged.
I weight it thusly:
Key ships (such as Howlrunner) gain a weight bonus. As the effectiveness of the ship goes down, so does the weight bonus.
Non-lethal damage accounts for 50% of the ship's total weight, and the last HP is the other 50%.
Warning: Math-Wing detected.
Font-shrinker engaged.
Tabber engaged.
TL:DR resumes at 14 point on left justification .
So, in my 7 Tie Howlrunner swarm, my starting weight is:
Howlrunner (12.5%, 6.5%, 6%), losing 2%, 1%, and 1% for each lost Tie across the board
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Obsidian Tie (6.5 + 3.5 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Academy Tie (6 + 3 + 3)
Rather conveniently, this weighting system tends to correspond directly to the point cost of the ships ;-)
A more difficult challenge lies in applying a similar weighting system to my opponent's fleet, and what determines a "Key Ship".
Using this modular breakdown, I am free to prioritize in the following order.
- It allows their fellow ships to be more effective (Howlrunner, ships with Swarm Tactics, Squad Leader, or DTF)
- It negates the effectiveness of my fleet (Ship with R2-D2, extremely effective blockers/controllers)
- It damages my fleet more effectively than its fellow ships (Wedge, ships with 3 attack in a swarm of 2s, et c.)
- It is more fragile than its fellow ships (Wounded ships, Ships with lower Agility)
- It costs more points than its fellow ships (An extreme tie-break.)
Breaking down your example fleets, we've got BBXX. Assuming it's a Bloody Daggers fleet, rather than a Blue Thunder or another form, the breakdown goes thusly:
The B-Wings have a slight edge in the Blocking dept, so gain an advantage in part 2
The B-Wings have a slight edge in the Fragility dept (only have 1/2 the Agility. Yes, there seems to be a disconnect; I'll get back to this)
The B-Wings tend to cost more points than the X-Wings, depending on the upgrades used.
The 27/23 breakdown of points for Bloody Daggers seems sufficient for my analysis. Let's look at how that breaks down with the percentages.
B-Wing (13.5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1.5)
B-Wing (13.5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1.5)
X-Wing (11.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2.5)
X-Wing (11.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2.5)
With your BBYt example, if they're running a Named Pilot, no upgrades on any ship, and have proven consistently able to fire with their B-Wings, damage is largely equalized, and my prioritization should be even across the board meaning my shots are better used killing the B-Wings than the YT. However, if the YT is doing something annoying with Gunner, their damage goes up, and become a larger priority.
Now, the use of this method is for a simple purpose:
When I have a greater number of "Points" on the board than they do, I focus. When I have a lesser number of "Points" on the board than they do, I evade. Simple as that.
Barrel-Rolling is a matter for a future discussion
This is great stuff. I think it calls for it's own topic and discussion.
Prioritizing targets is one of the toughest things for me personally and it's what I'm focusing on improving in my game right now.
Start it, and feel free to quote me in it. I'll even throw my method at a fleet of your choice as well, to further differentiate it.
I went 4-1 in a Store Championship 10 days ago with a swarm.
Only loss was in the final against Chewie, gunner +2 FCS daggers, we went to time with Chewie on 3 hull against 3 Ties with no damage.
Opponents played : bloody daggers (twice), Chewie+2 B-Wing (above), Fel+dark curse+Firespray with options, 4 Tie-I+1Tie advance with assault missiles.
I played the 8 tie swarm : 4 Obsidians + 4 Academies.
Tie fighter swarms are definetly a very good option against low agility opponents such as B-Wings and Falcons.
However they will probably kill any ship of their choosing in 1 or at most 2 shooting phases (firing before you) so I find it best not to have too obvious targets.
That's brutal, esp. since you know you'd win in a situation like that!
Whats a good high PS build for Tie Swarms. I dont actually know of any off the top of my head?
Whats a good high PS build for Tie Swarms. I dont actually know of any off the top of my head?
You can cram all 6 named pilots in a single fleet for 97 points, or go with Howlrunner + 5x Black Squadrons + VI for 93. Salt and Pepper to taste.