Having read through the section in Disciples of the Dark Gods on the Logicians, and the section in The Radical's Handbook on the Phaenonites, I was just wondering what the rest of you would think about the two groups working together, as their goals and methods seem to be very similar, and indeed both groups strife towards Malifica technology.

The 'big bad' of my campaign was originally intended to be a Phaenonite Heretek, but they would equally fit both groups, so if an alliance would work between the groups, I would run them as the 'overseer' of the alliance.

IIRC there was a war between the 2 groups some few centuries ago, but that shouldn't stop you!

Really? Where is that mentioned, I haven't stumbled across anything like that

The Logicians are amoral athiestic nihilists who want humanity to return to a position of power at the head of a technological revolution with themselves as its elites.

Phaeonites believe that by combining Dark Science and Daemonology they can aquire utter power for themselves.

I would imagine that the two groups could ally particularly in the early stages of a project. However equally I would imagine the Logicians would be leery about the Phaeonites enthusiasim for using the Warp so extensivly and indeed I would imagine your average Phaeonite would ultimatly end up hideously corrupted by the powers of the warp.

For their part the Phaeonite's probably see the Logicians as simplistic fools, trying to return Mankind to a time that will likely never return.

So in short while they might work together for a period I would imagine 'creative' differences would mean that the alliance would end after a full and frank exchange of views (i.e warp enfused plasma blast to the face).

Adventure Seed

The Acolytes are called to a Hive World where the Arbites are having trouble containing a particularly bloody and dangerous insurrection i nthe Under Hive. Closer investigation reveals that the some of the gangs are wielding weapons of extrordinary destructive power that is damaging the structural integrity of a number of Hive stacks. There are also rumours of automatons and mechanical devils stalking the bottom levels of the Hive.

The PCs have stumbled on the aftermath of a breakdown of an alliance between the Logicians and Phaeonites and must scramble to contain the situation and bring justice to those responsible.

Really? Where is that mentioned, I haven't stumbled across anything like that

Let's see if I can find it. It's entirely possibly that I'm mixing up canon and local campaign material though.

OK, the Disciples of the Dark Gods (p. 46-47) tells us that the logicians were backing the Meritech clans.

Phaenonites are found in Radical's Handbook, p. 117-123 and are associated with Idumea.

Aha! There it was!

Not so much the war I seemed to recall, but merely a twist. The Alter of Genocide section, p. 122 of Radical's Handbook mentions the two sects being at odds. Mind you, just because some elements of the factions feud it doesn't mean that others can't cooperate - fortunatly!

The Logicians are amoral athiestic nihilists who want humanity to return to a position of power at the head of a technological revolution with themselves as its elites.

Phaeonites believe that by combining Dark Science and Daemonology they can aquire utter power for themselves.

I would imagine that the two groups could ally particularly in the early stages of a project. However equally I would imagine the Logicians would be leery about the Phaeonites enthusiasim for using the Warp so extensivly and indeed I would imagine your average Phaeonite would ultimatly end up hideously corrupted by the powers of the warp.

For their part the Phaeonite's probably see the Logicians as simplistic fools, trying to return Mankind to a time that will likely never return.

So in short while they might work together for a period I would imagine 'creative' differences would mean that the alliance would end after a full and frank exchange of views (i.e warp enfused plasma blast to the face).

Adventure Seed

The Acolytes are called to a Hive World where the Arbites are having trouble containing a particularly bloody and dangerous insurrection i nthe Under Hive. Closer investigation reveals that the some of the gangs are wielding weapons of extrordinary destructive power that is damaging the structural integrity of a number of Hive stacks. There are also rumours of automatons and mechanical devils stalking the bottom levels of the Hive.

The PCs have stumbled on the aftermath of a breakdown of an alliance between the Logicians and Phaeonites and must scramble to contain the situation and bring justice to those responsible.

Really? Where is that mentioned, I haven't stumbled across anything like that

Let's see if I can find it. It's entirely possibly that I'm mixing up canon and local campaign material though.

OK, the Disciples of the Dark Gods (p. 46-47) tells us that the logicians were backing the Meritech clans.

Phaenonites are found in Radical's Handbook, p. 117-123 and are associated with Idumea.

Aha! There it was!

Not so much the war I seemed to recall, but merely a twist. The Alter of Genocide section, p. 122 of Radical's Handbook mentions the two sects being at odds. Mind you, just because some elements of the factions feud it doesn't mean that others can't cooperate - fortunatly!

Ah ok, so it would make more sense to have a Logician 'representative' and a Phaenonite 'representative' working as the leaders of this alliance. Judging by the comments on the Logicians being somewhat risky with their contacts (harbouring fugative tech-priests etc), this could be another Phaenonite plot, the alliance merely being an attempt to learn about/steal some of the technology the Logicians have developed/reclaimed, and then leave them out to dry when the Inquisition comes knocking

"Just as planned!"

The Logicians are amoral athiestic nihilists who want humanity to return to a position of power at the head of a technological revolution with themselves as its elites.

Phaeonites believe that by combining Dark Science and Daemonology they can aquire utter power for themselves.

I would imagine that the two groups could ally particularly in the early stages of a project. However equally I would imagine the Logicians would be leery about the Phaeonites enthusiasim for using the Warp so extensivly and indeed I would imagine your average Phaeonite would ultimatly end up hideously corrupted by the powers of the warp.

For their part the Phaeonite's probably see the Logicians as simplistic fools, trying to return Mankind to a time that will likely never return.

So in short while they might work together for a period I would imagine 'creative' differences would mean that the alliance would end after a full and frank exchange of views (i.e warp enfused plasma blast to the face).

Adventure Seed

The Acolytes are called to a Hive World where the Arbites are having trouble containing a particularly bloody and dangerous insurrection i nthe Under Hive. Closer investigation reveals that the some of the gangs are wielding weapons of extrordinary destructive power that is damaging the structural integrity of a number of Hive stacks. There are also rumours of automatons and mechanical devils stalking the bottom levels of the Hive.

The PCs have stumbled on the aftermath of a breakdown of an alliance between the Logicians and Phaeonites and must scramble to contain the situation and bring justice to those responsible.

Really? Where is that mentioned, I haven't stumbled across anything like that

Let's see if I can find it. It's entirely possibly that I'm mixing up canon and local campaign material though.

OK, the Disciples of the Dark Gods (p. 46-47) tells us that the logicians were backing the Meritech clans.

Phaenonites are found in Radical's Handbook, p. 117-123 and are associated with Idumea.

Aha! There it was!

Not so much the war I seemed to recall, but merely a twist. The Alter of Genocide section, p. 122 of Radical's Handbook mentions the two sects being at odds. Mind you, just because some elements of the factions feud it doesn't mean that others can't cooperate - fortunatly!

Ah ok, so it would make more sense to have a Logician 'representative' and a Phaenonite 'representative' working as the leaders of this alliance. Judging by the comments on the Logicians being somewhat risky with their contacts (harbouring fugative tech-priests etc), this could be another Phaenonite plot, the alliance merely being an attempt to learn about/steal some of the technology the Logicians have developed/reclaimed, and then leave them out to dry when the Inquisition comes knocking

Alternaitvly given the extreme lengths the Inquisition radical or puritan would go to to destroy the Phaeonites if they were ever have found to remerge it is possible the Logicians are a cover organisation to allow the Phaeonites to advance their plans without being truly discovered.

The Logicians are amoral athiestic nihilists who want humanity to return to a position of power at the head of a technological revolution with themselves as its elites.

Phaeonites believe that by combining Dark Science and Daemonology they can aquire utter power for themselves.

I would imagine that the two groups could ally particularly in the early stages of a project. However equally I would imagine the Logicians would be leery about the Phaeonites enthusiasim for using the Warp so extensivly and indeed I would imagine your average Phaeonite would ultimatly end up hideously corrupted by the powers of the warp.

For their part the Phaeonite's probably see the Logicians as simplistic fools, trying to return Mankind to a time that will likely never return.

So in short while they might work together for a period I would imagine 'creative' differences would mean that the alliance would end after a full and frank exchange of views (i.e warp enfused plasma blast to the face).

Adventure Seed

The Acolytes are called to a Hive World where the Arbites are having trouble containing a particularly bloody and dangerous insurrection i nthe Under Hive. Closer investigation reveals that the some of the gangs are wielding weapons of extrordinary destructive power that is damaging the structural integrity of a number of Hive stacks. There are also rumours of automatons and mechanical devils stalking the bottom levels of the Hive.

The PCs have stumbled on the aftermath of a breakdown of an alliance between the Logicians and Phaeonites and must scramble to contain the situation and bring justice to those responsible.

Really? Where is that mentioned, I haven't stumbled across anything like that

Let's see if I can find it. It's entirely possibly that I'm mixing up canon and local campaign material though.

OK, the Disciples of the Dark Gods (p. 46-47) tells us that the logicians were backing the Meritech clans.

Phaenonites are found in Radical's Handbook, p. 117-123 and are associated with Idumea.

Aha! There it was!

Not so much the war I seemed to recall, but merely a twist. The Alter of Genocide section, p. 122 of Radical's Handbook mentions the two sects being at odds. Mind you, just because some elements of the factions feud it doesn't mean that others can't cooperate - fortunatly!

Ah ok, so it would make more sense to have a Logician 'representative' and a Phaenonite 'representative' working as the leaders of this alliance. Judging by the comments on the Logicians being somewhat risky with their contacts (harbouring fugative tech-priests etc), this could be another Phaenonite plot, the alliance merely being an attempt to learn about/steal some of the technology the Logicians have developed/reclaimed, and then leave them out to dry when the Inquisition comes knocking

Alternaitvly given the extreme lengths the Inquisition radical or puritan would go to to destroy the Phaeonites if they were ever have found to remerge it is possible the Logicians are a cover organisation to allow the Phaeonites to advance their plans without being truly discovered.

That could work quite well actually