O, Descent is one of FFG bestselling games. It get's a lot of love from them but the market changes. New title are comming and will try to push it off the thore of the best dungeon crawler board game. Looking at all those types of expansions (small & big box expansions, heroes & monsters collection, lieutenatns and the comming POD) I wonder what FFFG can make to make this game even better and to K.O. the other comming dungeon crawler titles. So it's like a speculation, suestions and rumours topic. I just wonder what other players have to say about the game and it's future. So let's start:

1) some players on BGG say this game is a little mess, becouse there's too much types of expansions. It's not like You get all in one box but every has some optional things. Personaly I do not see it as a mistake but it would be nice to get more in one box then buy like 5 expansions just for one campain like for example Shadow of Nerekhall + 4 Lieutenats for it. BUt like I said for me this is not a siriuos issiue.

2) but there is something that I miss like - expansions do not use other expansions. What do I mean, It's like Every expansion is only connected to base game and nothing more. So new expansions do not use map tiles from other expansions, does not need monsters or conditions from others. For me in case of such a complex (big) titles this is a weak spot. When I have all expansions I would like to use them all at once not just heroes or monsters. I would like to see in the future new expansions that would use the base game + previuos expansions/expansions to play. That can be easiely done by FFG. Just someone should create a campain that would use, for example, base + Trollfens to play, It would just need a lebel requiared to play Base Game + Title of a expansion.

3) Open system = the enemy of dungeon crawlers. Yes, this is another weak spot for player, especialy those that know 1e. This game has no exploration and many times no suprises on the map. If You played the 1e of Descent, like I did, then You know that explorin dungeons was the core of the game. In this edition we do not get it. This makes harder to build your own quests. In 1e I and my players just took the map tiles, builded a dungeon and the Overlord just made up a story to it. It took 5 min and we played a randon map and had a lot of fun. In 2e this is a problem becouse even if the goal for players is easy to made then the one for the Overlord is tought to made and still have balance by not making it to easy for one site. So maybe FFG could consider making an expansion more focused on exploration with mechanics that would support it.

4) other variants of play. Looking at the comming this year titles that are dungeon crawlers You can see that they are supporting many variants of play fro co-op to survival or all vs all. Descent does not have such things. Yes, we will see a co-op Descent expansion this year but the way it loks at this point it will be playable only with this one expansions so You will not get the rules to make Your own co-op quests. It will use only 4 monsters from the base game and have cards for each room to explore. It's all we know now base on informations gived by FFG. Many weill have the oportunity to try it at Organised Play (but no one knows when it will start). So we will see co-op but only as one expansion but what about other mode of play? Maybe FFG could make a POD for survival - all players are heroes and are battleing waves of monsters (not each other) on a board, the winner is the last one standing. Or a varaint where each player is trying to acomplish there own goal on a custom map and every one is controling a hero, the winner is the one who first acomplishes his goal. There are a lot of ideas of other variants of play that could be made to this game. Will we see them is anopther question.

Those are my thoughts about this game and what the future can give us. I just hope that the next announcement for Descent won't be a 3rd Hero & Monsters Collection. H&M Collections are so optional, and give so little new content that many will not buy it. Collectors will like always but to some it will be the last expansion to get I think. So I just hope to see another small or big box adventure.

I started this topic becouse I saw what is comming this year and there are some good dungeon crawler type game that use mechanics as simple as Descent but give players more customisation options and easier tools to create there own quests and adventures. So from my point of view this topic is a hint for FFG what they could do with this game more. As a fan I want this title to become even bigger and better so that people will not lost interest in it.

Cheers

Beren

Totally agree with all the points, especially with the lack of co-op variant.

My group didn't like the "Overlord" very much, so I had to get rid of the game eventually.

The D&D Adventure System works better with us and I'd love to see some official

rules for Descent without OL. The game looks great, minis are great, but the

gameplay just sucks (for us).
I know there are some fan made rules for playing without OL, but it's just not it.

Nothing kills a game faster than trying to suck every red cent out of the fan's wallets. Look at dominion. Most popular game for months, in every one of my game circles, until they published the third expansion inside of a year, then everyone gave up on it. It went from a go-to game for every gaming session to never being played inside of six months.

I've been playing this game for about half a year, and in that time there have been two expansions and about a dozen "supplements" or whatever you want to call them. In the next few months there is another expansion, two big supplements and a bunch of smaller ones coming out. The boardgamegeek forums are full of people who are buying every little bit, even though they'll never use half of it - but for most of us it's more likely to lead to burnout than more profit for FFG.

Want to make this game better, give it longevity? Stop buying every little thing that comes out, so that FFG doesn't burn out their fanbase.

Id like to see a co-op varient as much as the next person, but i have no illusion than it will ever be as fun as versing a human being. Its impossible to match the guile of a player playing as the overlord, the strategy they put in cannot be matched by a bunch of move/attack rules on a card (like D&D games that i own).

I have no where near the amount of fun playing the legend of Drizzt as i do Descent. That said if the dnd games had a better experience / leveling up system i would enjoy the game a lot more. When i play the DnD games i do not feel like a beat a level really, it feels more like this playthrough i was lucky enough not to pick too many bad monster cards in a row. While there is a small level of skill in the game each encounter is way to luck based for my liking.

This all said Descent has a pretty solid base and i think there is an opportunity here for a cool co-op varient if done properly. I hold no illusion it will be as fun for me as a human played game though.

Going onto the exploration, i t otally agree that exploration should be played with more in Descent. This game really does not feel like a dungeon crawler as such, your not really crawling dungeons wondering what is around the corner which can be a really fun element. The game does however have a lot going for it and i think this is another issue that could be easily addressed in future expansions, the next expansion alludes to dealing with this issue and i am really excited to see how its going to play out !

About expansions - i too feel like they could play better together, i hope in future that ffg think about releasing expansions that expand their current expansions. Or atleast some sort of other expansion that hopes to tie different expansions together somehow.

Other varients of play i also agree would be much welcome, that would definitely open the game up alot more. There are many varients of play more than just co-op that could be explored that would be heaps of fun. co-op team vs co-op team (capture the flag and such ?), overlord vs overlor and hero vs hero just to name a few.

I have only played Gears of War (co-op game) to compare. While there are elements that I like about just teaming up against the bad guy (win together, lose together), it is just not realistic. For example, I have played that game a dozen times where our demise was based solely on two bad cards being drawn for the AI bad guy (Locust in this game). Also, there are several scenarios where the AI card said to move to the nearest hero. If two heroes were of equal distance we would always move the locust to the hero with the least damage. This wouldn't always be the case in real life and if a human were representing the locust he/she would go for the hero with the most damage. Gears of War is a fun game for co-op though. I think this is why there are games for both. If you don't like the lack of co-op in Descent, go find a game like GoW that is designed for co-op. Then you have options for either scenario.

I really hope there isn't a "co-op expansion". My play group likes the competitive nature of the game, even if its 4v1. I would not mind if there was a ruleset to turn quests into co-op play, or perhaps an add-on akin to the Conversion Kit. But I don't like the idea making co-op only campaigns.

It just doesn't seem like this this the right game for a co-operative mode of play, the game design requires an intelligent overlord.

I agree with Whitewing. While I'm excited about the co-op module they're working on, I highly doubt it will be much more than a fun little alternative. There's no way it will bring a mind-blowing co-op experience, since Descent is 1 vs. all. The Overlord is such an important aspect of Descent.

Yes, the main mechanic of Descent will always be Overlord vs Heroes but this does not mean that we can't have others optional variants just for fun.

Sorry for a double post but I talked to players at BGG and some say that this game is slowly burning out. Do You think that after two years from the release the game is burning out?

About the Co-op mode will be nice but will not change the game completly. Expanding it fether would be nice but still it would not be as good as games designed for co-op from the start.

There is a way of converting quests into more 1e style, this could be an interesting way also to move the game in this direction. I even made some house rules for it becouse feel better in 1e exploration then in 2e with it's open style mechanic of quests.

I think FFG should show something more then they are releasing now. Lieutenants are not so good and You will never use all of them, Heroes & Monster Collection brings so little new to the game then it will be the last thing to buy for many. Co-op POD expansions could be nice if they will come in a series but now Descent needs something more. New games show that players are looking for more open and flexible games with good mechanics. Descent is good, I still like it but after two years on the market it looks like it is burning out. I just hope it just a feeling and I'm wrong.

Cheers

It may be true that the game is burning out.

I saw that the mini expansion are expansive now. Does that means the game is not selling so good ? or the production is too much for small boxes ?

No doubt the game needs something new in next expansion, maybe it's time now to take some time and bring big well tested expansion. I'm a real fan, but i'm also realistic : as the expansion comes out, i'm a bit blasé.

Why not a box with non human heroes ?
maybe a expansion with new square really playing with map tiles
What about a book using some and or all of the expansion already made ?

What about a book using some and or all of the expansion already made ?

They tried this in 1e and it was possibly the worst official product in the series. I imagine they COULD make one that's up to snuff, but I think they're also really leery of this (in part because the player base is going to be).

Using material from all expansions should probably be best left to custom quests with the quest building tools, etc.

As I see it you can use most materials from all expansion.

Here is what you can use:

* Heroes

* classes

* OL cards

* secret rooms

Here is what you cannot use

* most relics

* Lieutenants

* Quest specific stuff like allies

* Map tiles

if you buy all that is available and play a LoR quest most everything is available. After you select your heroes the others are now out of play but that's just the way it is. Both LoW and trollfens can be used fully. Only lieutenants and relics from base are not going to be used.

This is one of those games I want to like but can't. I don't know if adding coop would make it better for me and people like me who played it. It has a lot of good things going for it as soon as a OL opens up the boxes, you get that wow! Cool components, feel when you first play it. But once you get to the meat of it it really isn't that epic of a game even though you think its going to be when you see all the components.

This game screams "I want to be epic"! "But I'm not"! It's not a crazy bad game it's just not fun enough to warrant bringing out all the components out for it. Lot of the expansions is more, just more things to bring out. If I owned all the expansions I'm sure I wouldn't even bring out 1/3 of them to the table they just don't add much other then more of the same. It probably needs a diffrent variant like coop. But that doesn't mean what they come up with will improve it any better for me.

I get the nature of the the game it's a "tactical skirmish" but that sounds more of a excuse then a game design feature. During the course of the game every thing you do as heroes (in particularly) should have interesting things happening at all times not just when OL does something. Maybe it would be better to earn money, and gear a better way. Say when you slay something. Since game is kind of a race they could of made it to where heroes could stay and be greedy and kill more things, search more things to improve. I really hate the race to beat quests and get rewarded way And get rewarded anyways if you loose (just not as well rewarded). It just plain sucks! It just makes the game boring,repetitive and stale, not really replayable for me. Even Warhammer quest has it's boring moments but this game has more. There's really nothing interesting about killing a monster to get them out of the way, to get to point B in this game. Even the shop system is boring. I like the art work though, cards look cool.

Story? Well I got to say i don't think that does this game much justice either. I've played this game as OL before but mostly as heroes because I gave it to a friend. I've also played this game with diffrent OL each trying to make it interesting in there own little way. It's not there fault though it's the games.

The rythm of expansions production is too high for me.

I however like the fact that expansions are not interdependent: this allows one not to have to buy them all.

The background stories are weak, and players concentrate on the tactical challenges much more than on the fluff text (which is, for my ageing eyes, written so small that it is a real pain to read).

Descent is not a dungeon crawler. It is a tactical skirmish game,set in a fantasy environment.

I would really have loved to see a coop possibility included from the start, as well as a scenario generation system (my gaming partners don't have a regular time free to be able to persevere along a campaign - not speaking of some not liking the theme).

I have a game that I like, but no serious player base to play it extensively with me : better solo possibilities (a coop system offers that) would have been welcome...

Living rules (i.e. rules online that are revised according to errata and FAQ refining) rather than the parallel FAQ system would be welcome too.

All in all, I like Descent a lot, but I am not far from stopping to buy further expansions.

Frankly I enjoy the game for what it is: a team vs. one tactical strategy game with RPG elements in a fantasy setting. I like expansions because they provide new scenarios to play, new options for players and overlord, and introduce new and cool mechanics.

The rythm of expansions production is too high for me.

I however like the fact that expansions are not interdependent: this allows one not to have to buy them all.

The background stories are weak, and players concentrate on the tactical challenges much more than on the fluff text (which is, for my ageing eyes, written so small that it is a real pain to read).

Descent is not a dungeon crawler. It is a tactical skirmish game,set in a fantasy environment.

I would really have loved to see a coop possibility included from the start, as well as a scenario generation system (my gaming partners don't have a regular time free to be able to persevere along a campaign - not speaking of some not liking the theme).

I have a game that I like, but no serious player base to play it extensively with me : better solo possibilities (a coop system offers that) would have been welcome...

Living rules (i.e. rules online that are revised according to errata and FAQ refining) rather than the parallel FAQ system would be welcome too.

All in all, I like Descent a lot, but I am not far from stopping to buy further expansions.

Although I like your post I don't understand how they can put "a dungeon delving adventure" on the box when it's a "tactical skirmish" game. When I played it it didn't feel like an adventure at all more like a chore. And I think that's where the game fails a lot of people getting into it. Most of the time while playing it I couldn't wait for it to just end!

This is an intriguing topic. I feel that descent has recently provided me with a unique dilemma. I'm a bit of a collector, so naturally I would like to obtain all of the Descent merchandise. However, with the frequency that new product is getting released, it makes it difficult for one to keep up with it all both logistically and financially. Also, I would love to acquire all of the small content releases such as the lieutenant packs, but the fact that you can only use 1 at a time makes that somewhat of a redundant investment, especially when you consider how may lieutenant packs currently exist vs how many campaigns are available.

On one hand I agree the expansions are getting shot out pretty quickly but if those heroes and monsters expansion are any indication I think they might be slowing down slightly.

On the other hand the new expansion coming out with the new mechanics they're introducing with the new story mechanics (i.e. the corrupt npcs) is looking pretty exciting and I think could really bring some new life to the game.

On one hand I agree the expansions are getting shot out pretty quickly but if those heroes and monsters expansion are any indication I think they might be slowing down slightly.

On the other hand the new expansion coming out with the new mechanics they're introducing with the new story mechanics (i.e. the corrupt npcs) is looking pretty exciting and I think could really bring some new life to the game.

I agree it is an intriguing topic. Actually the "future of Descent" is the part that intrigues me the most.

Right on cue, it sounds like a new small box expansion is on the way in Manor of Ravens. I think the key to all of this is simple economics. FFG will continue to pump out content as long as it continues to sell, and so they should. Whether demand can keep up with supply remains to be seen. At least for now, it looks like demand is still considerably high.

Right on cue, it sounds like a new small box expansion is on the way in Manor of Ravens. I think the key to all of this is simple economics. FFG will continue to pump out content as long as it continues to sell, and so they should. Whether demand can keep up with supply remains to be seen. At least for now, it looks like demand is still considerably high.

And because of those simple economics this game will share the same fate as it's sister game..

Great news comming from GAMA Trade Show 2014. FFg is not loosing interest in this game, even more they are announceing new title and will support co-op play. Those are good news. Co-op will be published as POD as it looks and the number of co-op adventures will grow. I just hope that it will expanded beyond base game tiles.

And any day now we will see a new annoucement of Manor Of Ravens which will be a small box expansion. Nothing more is known at this point,. Personaly I hope that it will use more then just the base game requiared to play and will bring more then just two Heroes. But if it will bring just two Heroes then we can be sure that it will be not the only small box expansion this year.

Those are good new for me as a fan of Descent.

Cheers

Beren

PS. its alway the economics that count. As long as players want to play and buy a game that game lives and expandes. When the sales go down and palyers are loosing interest in a title the company is starting not supporting it.Like in this old song money makes the world go around.

In reply to whether players or the OL are more excited for the Shadows expansion my players are pretty stoked about it. They are excited by the idea of surprise plot elements unfolding around them that may keep them on their toes. I think that appeal has even increased since the announcement of the expansion since some of my players have been introduced to Mansions of Madness and how the keeper manipulates the story to create a mystery.

Expansions are there to expand a game. Just cause one comes out doesn't mean you have to buy it. I agree FFG could do a little more with their base games at times like have more dice but let's face it they don't. On the other hand FFG does some things far better than their competitors when it comes to product quality. Every person I know that just touches the outside box of an FFG game immediately gives a compliment to the quality put into the game. I guess what I am saying is vote with your dollars appropriately if you want FFG to respond to what you want.

Also my players saw the last expansion for the heroes and monsters and one of my players is stoked to play as Bloodwing so I would say these expansions have a lot of appeal to heroes and overlords alike.

Either way if you are burning out on this game though then I would just say that is typical problem that all games inevitably suffer from. Games are trendy by nature and very few stand the test of time.

Some personal bias that I should admit though it that since the first time I played Descent 2e I really enjoyed the universe and have since expanded to other games in the Terrinoth universe so I realize I probably enjoy this game more than most. As such I am a sucker for expansions at the moment.