Hi guys, been lurking way too long so finally joined the forums to not only say hi, but that i have my first conundrum as well!

First up, Hi! Great to be apart of such a fantastic community

Secondly, as the title suggests, how do I effectively run minion groups with ranged weapons in melee?

The situation during a game tonight was that my force exile marauder with a force pike engaged a 3-minion group of busted up battle droids with blaster rifles.

The way we ran it was the droids had a brawn of 1. So, being a group of 3 droids made their dice pool GY with a difficulty of 4P (2P for melee and another 2P for using ranged hvy in melee combat).

Query is this, because there are 3 droids in the minion group, do they upgrade the difficulty of using ranged in melee AS WELL or is it simply just the 2P for using ranged? (ie PPPP or PPRR?)

Probably a dumb question but just wanted to clarify, as haven't heard of upgrading difficulty of skill checks just because enemies are in a minion group (they just get the usual proficiency upgrades)..

Reason we were querying the challenge die upgrades was narratively the 3 droids were fumbling all over each other to try and get shots off amongst the melee, though we assumed that was taken into account with the two extra purple die and the fact there were 3 droids just gave them extra chances to hit...??

Thanks heaps guys

The difficulty is 3p, 1 for being engaged, 2 for using ranged heavy. They still use their normal skill check, so no brawn.

They could also use their maneuver to disengage and then their action to shoot from Short range. It's a more effective course of action.

Just to expand upon and confirm what Ghostofman said, it is still a ranged (heavy) check for the droids, so it is based on their agility. If they are similar to the MRB antiquated battle droid, that would give them a dice pool of YY.

Difficulty would be PPP, one P for engaged range and 2P for using a ranged heavy weapon in engaged range.

As HappyDaze pointed out, they would be more effective withdrawing first and then blasting for only a PP difficulty. Or, the droids could aim first to gain a bonus blue dice if you don't like the idea of the droids back-pedaling before shooting.

Either way, I think those droids are toast!

Ahhhhh.... I see.

Yes Hygric, they were the stats for the ABD's though I kept thinking that using a rifle in melee would use the melee skill (swinging the weapon like a club or something), but regardless it's just ranged heavy with range of 'engaged'. Makes sense...Cue Dicaprio 'Duh' moment...

Just to further add to HappyDaze though, seems my marauder is going to consistently get his face shot off with engaging ranged attackers who can just backpedal out the way every round with their manuever and fire back with me standing flat-footed in the open? Seems a tad annoying but guess everyone in the outer rim carries some sort of firearm.

There doesn't seem any way around this though unless backing them in a corner (nothing stopping them from disengaging around me though) or just not charging in the first place

If your marauder wins initiative he's going to be able to land his attacks before the opponents act. If they're all dead before their initiative order his face is safe......

Funnily enough I usually do happen to smack face first, but since they are in minion groups, i only take out 1 at a time and rest of team doesn't want to shoot into the melee and accidently hit my character, leaving the rest to back-peddle and give me a few new ear piercings and haircut.

Earlier in the game last night taking on 3 gamorreans who just were brawling ended up with my character loading up on his bacon rations, but yeah, minions with blasters not so much.

Ahhhhh.... I see.

Yes Hygric, they were the stats for the ABD's though I kept thinking that using a rifle in melee would use the melee skill (swinging the weapon like a club or something), but regardless it's just ranged heavy with range of 'engaged'. Makes sense...Cue Dicaprio 'Duh' moment...

Just to further add to HappyDaze though, seems my marauder is going to consistently get his face shot off with engaging ranged attackers who can just backpedal out the way every round with their manuever and fire back with me standing flat-footed in the open? Seems a tad annoying but guess everyone in the outer rim carries some sort of firearm.

There doesn't seem any way around this though unless backing them in a corner (nothing stopping them from disengaging around me though) or just not charging in the first place

If you want the battledroids to engage the player in melee you totally can. As the GM you can run them however you like. You don't have to have them back out of melee range just because it makes sense in meta mechanical perspective. You can have them do whatever makes sense in the scene.

As for clubbing the player with their rifles, it would be a melee check (which isn't a grouped skill for battledroids) and the blaster rifle would be an improvised weapon (probably small), found on page 212.

Very much true Ghost. Well said. I was just rambling on in another post about narrative in game as well. The whole book is based on it after all.

And that's how it went last night in game, the droids did stay and fight (albeit with a tad more difficulty compared to clarification above) but enough to keep my marauder distracted until a power-lifter droid swatted me like a gnat (that hurt!).

Funnily enough I usually do happen to smack face first, but since they are in minion groups, i only take out 1 at a time and rest of team doesn't want to shoot into the melee and accidently hit my character, leaving the rest to back-peddle and give me a few new ear piercings and haircut.

You might want to ask your GM to double check the minion rules. You should definately be taking out more than one every round so he or she might have made a mistake.

You apply damage to a minion group as a group. For example, you have four minions with 5 WT for a total of 20 and a soak of two. If you hit for 11 points of damage you apply soak (11-2=9) then apply the damage to the group. 9-5=4 so one dead minion and 4 damage to the next. If you had done 12 damage you would have killed two minions with one swing.

Also remember that crits kill minions as well. So if you crit, there goes another minion from the group. I have see two different interpretations of the crit rules on the boards. The one my group goes with is that if you crit multiple times on a minion group, each crit kills off one minion. I've seen other posters interpret it as no matter how many crits you activate, it's still only one crit so only one extra minion dies.

You apply damage to a minion group as a group. For example, you have four minions with 5 WT for a total of 20 and a soak of two. If you hit for 11 points of damage you apply soak (11-2=9) then apply the damage to the group. 9-5=4 so one dead minion and 4 damage to the next. If you had done 12 damage you would have killed two minions with one swing.

Also remember that crits kill minions as well. So if you crit, there goes another minion from the group. I have see two different interpretations of the crit rules on the boards. The one my group goes with is that if you crit multiple times on a minion group, each crit kills off one minion. I've seen other posters interpret it as no matter how many crits you activate, it's still only one crit so only one extra minion dies.

Sweet. I agree with the multiple crits/minions thing as well. We'll prob take it down that road. Thanks for clarifying Ahrimon.

Just to further add to HappyDaze though, seems my marauder is going to consistently get his face shot off with engaging ranged attackers who can just backpedal out the way every round with their manuever and fire back with me standing flat-footed in the open? Seems a tad annoying but guess everyone in the outer rim carries some sort of firearm.

For the Marauder, the answer appears to be found in pumping your Soak to high levels and boosting WT high enough that you can shrug off much of your enemies' fire. Some have found this approach to be a bug, some call it a feature.

For the Marauder, the answer appears to be found in pumping your Soak to high levels and boosting WT high enough that you can shrug off much of your enemies' fire. Some have found this approach to be a bug, some call it a feature.

Yeah not sure how i feel about it. It obviously makes a lot of sense but i'm pumping more of my xp into the force exile powers and talents than the marauder (bought my first marauder talent for 5xp last night (frenzied attack - makes a nice touch if/when i use dark side pips to use force powers

Wearing only heavy clothing with tattered cloak (befitting the wanderer that he is) and using a force pike as his 'gandalf staff'. I did dump 10xp into force sense 'control' upgrade as well, so sustaining a force orb grants a challenge die upgrade on one enemy attack (or something to that effect, don't have CRB with me).

He's a bit of a glass cannon at the moment. Will certainly crack skulls on the first hit, but can't take much. The trick will be how to upgrade his armor whilst keeping in character.

They could also use their maneuver to disengage and then their action to shoot from Short range. It's a more effective course of action.

This may be better off as a new topic, but I searched and found this post so I figured I'd post here:

Two of my players (brawling Mechanic and Marauder) talked to me after our last session and expressed some dissatisfaction with the best strategy for enemies with guns to be just hopping out of melee to shoot. I said we'd have a trial period of needing two maneuvers to disengage from melee, but I'm worried this might unbalance things a little too much in their favor. Any thoughts on the matter?

Yes. They need to win initiative. If they simply win initiative they can strike before the opponent has a chance to react. If they can disable the group then they won't be shot at. If their expectation is that someone would just stand there and let an opponent punch them in the face, their expectation simply isn't realistic. I wouldn't change the way it works.

2P51's got the right of it.

At best I could see allowing them to spend Advantage to try and make up for the "back up and shoot" response. RAW their best bet is to inflict setback dice or upgrades as their roll allows on the droids' next action to represent that their attempts to disengage and put their weapons to best use are hampered.

If you truly feel your table needs something broader, two Advantage gives the acting character a free maneuver, so something like 3-4 should be required to try and proactively deny an opponent's choice of action. I'd still be hesitant to allow it unless both characters are doing something narratively that makes sense like trying to work together to corral the opposition or back them into a corner.

The galaxy uses blasters for a reason. Melee has a lot of advantages in EotE, among them easy availability of low-crit weaponry and their primary offensive stat doubling as a defensive stat (and utility if you count ease of having spare equipment on-hand). The burden of making the most of those advantages should fall on them.

You apply damage to a minion group as a group. For example, you have four minions with 5 WT for a total of 20 and a soak of two. If you hit for 11 points of damage you apply soak (11-2=9) then apply the damage to the group. 9-5=4 so one dead minion and 4 damage to the next. If you had done 12 damage you would have killed two minions with one swing.

Just one thing needs to be clarified. A character is not defeated/incapacitated by meeting his threshold, but by exceeding it. So in your example, a minion group with 5 WT would require 6 wounds to defeat one of them.

This is addressed in the FAQ to clarify the RAI.

They could also use their maneuver to disengage and then their action to shoot from Short range. It's a more effective course of action.

This may be better off as a new topic, but I searched and found this post so I figured I'd post here:

Two of my players (brawling Mechanic and Marauder) talked to me after our last session and expressed some dissatisfaction with the best strategy for enemies with guns to be just hopping out of melee to shoot. I said we'd have a trial period of needing two maneuvers to disengage from melee, but I'm worried this might unbalance things a little too much in their favor. Any thoughts on the matter?

Ever wonder why knockdown was part of the basic brawl attack? It's so that the enemy can't get away. Knockdown a minion or Rival and he'll need to spend a maneuver to stand. If he wanted to shoot he'll either take the shooting in melee penalties or buy another maneuver and suffer two wounds. (Strain converts to wounds.)

Knockdown is very powerful at keeping your bad guys in melee. I'd recommend that the Marauder pick up the Knock Down talent for 10 xp on his tree. If he doesn't want the bad guys to get away so easy he'll want to spend a triumph on the knockdown instead of making his crit even bigger.

The other way to take care of it is through narritave combat. Have them spend a bunch of advantages or a triumph then narriate a reason why the enemy can't just back out of combat. Boxes or railing or cliff in the way to prevent the escape. Maybe allow the trapped individual to make an athletics or coordination check to slip past.

Melee characters don't need help, just some rules knowledge and some creativity. I know as my primary character is a marauder. I don't need no stinkin' GM charity.

Melee characters have a lot of options.

The most important is to plan your moment. Bad guys know that blasters kill. Use this arrogance against them. If you can't get the jump on your opposition take cover and move up. You do not need to attack every round if the rounds you do attack get results. Bad guys will probably shoot at the people shooting at them (i.e the other PCs with blasters) until you are ready to make your move. This is really important if a fight starts at long or extreme range.

You can spend Destiny points to make the scene conform to your needs. A destiny point can have a tree fall or a delivery truck crash to block escape. As others have stated, you can knock people down, or maneuver using threat they roll. It may be obvious, but spend strain to take an extra maneuver to get into melee from Medium range.

If you are using the one crit per person interpretation of the rules minions are a marauder's joy. A mono-edged vibro weapon kills one minion per advantage. You can almost keep up with the grenadier in terms of minion slaughtering efficiency.

On boss characters it pays to let the other party members use your high initiative. Let them get some crits in so that when you get yours you're getting the full cumulative effect of previous crits, vicious, and Lethal Blows. We took out a rancor that way with some lucky rolls. Their crappy crits will make yours all the more spectacular.