I would love to see the Missile Boat (preferably the sleeker original than the updated boxy one) but I'm not sure how FFG would implement that. Perhaps SLAMs as a Mod/System Upgrade, that allow you to move twice if you don't shoot, or something (personal idea I threw around). Otherwise, I'm stumped on balanced stats and how to incorporate the extra missiles. Maybe some sort of title card* that allows you to re-use a missile/torp card once before discarding, or that is discarded instead of a missile or torp card? (*so it isn't abused outside of its rightful home on the missile boat =3)

I think the missile boat could work well if it had something like a garbage basic weapon with only attack power 1. Then give it a 2 point discount on all missiles/torpedos and a generous number of missile shots. Also ship it with some kind of super basic missile upgrade card that only costs 2 points that would be essentially free on the missle boat. I'm thinking something like range 2-3 strength 3 no frills. It would be too basic to be attractive on other ships in most circumstances but keep the missile boat viable for a few shots if you didn't want to go for more expensive options.

Maybe we should make a Missile Boat thread so as not to clutter this one too much.

While I like the idea of a missile discount, I think it's important to maintain the aesthetic of X-Wing that only unique pilots have special rules on the card.

Definitely agree with attack power 1, since it only has a stubby single cannon which is basically your SLAM battery.

I suppose FFG could create a Missile Boat only mod, something like 'additional missile racks'. Or maybe it could be a systems upgrade, but I don't want to risk unbalancing the B-Wing (although, I gather B-Wings are preferred for their knife-fighting and it sounds like extra missiles would be a waste of adv. sensors for a B-Wing)

If someone doesn't beat me too it, I might roll out a thread =)

Here's me beating you to it! How would you incorporate the Missile boat to the game??

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/95645-missile-boat-values/?hl=%2Bmissile+%2Bboat+%2Bvalues

I'm going to synthesise into one post the ideas I probably liked best about that thread.

I'm going to go with the 'laser' primary model, because I think the idea of having a ordnance primary sits outside the aesthetic of the game, which is part of why I love X-Wing.

Stats, IMO, 1/3/3/3

The missile boat is supposed to be more agile and have shield comparable to the Tie Defender.

I plumped for 3 because I think on a 3 agil ship, 4 shields is too much. I see the shield number as a general rating, and I think the Tie Defender sets that precedent, having not just ported over the stats directly from the game (which would have given 4 shields). As much as lore is important, balance is too.

I think an upgrade is necessary to represent the extra missiles. I'm not sure whether to make it a mod or a sys. upgrade. I can't speak for the future though, but I anticipate extra missiles on a B-Wing isn't unbalancing, as I said earlier. So I'd probably make something like

Additional Ordnance Racks (4) (Sys. Up)

The ship gains a missile token for each missile or torpedo. The first time you would remove a card, remove the token instead.

As you buy more missiles, the upgrade becomes more cost-effective. On one, it's likely just a second same-cost missile. Of course, the cost above might need to change, I've not memorised ordnance costs!

I think SLAMs could be a systems upgrade, but might be better as a title (Maybe use the fan codename 'Novawing'). The cheeky precedent for this is that in X-Wing Alliance, the Missile Boat lost its SLAM ability, leading me to assume it can be added and taken away at will.

It would grant a boost (but using the 3 template) instead of an attack. I think a soft 3 is an acceptable use of SLAMs, but not a hard 3 or K-turn.

I would go for, 2 missiles, 2 torps and maybe 1 bomb slot. The MBoat wasn't really known for its bombs, but it could carry them. If SLAMS or Add. Ord. Racks was a sys. upgrade, I'd say it needs that slot too, but I'm tending towards the title for SLAMS.

It was a pretty speedy ship, so I'd consider an interceptor dial but with slightly less green.

Actions

Has to have Focus and TLock. I'd add Boost too.

But, just thought...

Of course, a completely left field idea. Could it have some sort of 'ordnance' action? A MBoat can use the action to regain a discarded ordnance card? An action DOES lock it to the MBoat...

These are just my ideas, and I'm not an experienced player (can't get many games), so I'd definitely rely on others to feedback about balance/ poke holes in the idea.

Like I said though, it's important we keep the aesthetic.

Oh, and Steele HAS to be a pilot.

And the model can't be that boxy hunk of junk from XWA/XvT. Has to be the original Tie Fighter model or the very excellent design that modders came up with for XWA Upgrade (as seen in The Real Starkiller's thread)

The missile boat is supposed to be more agile and have shield comparable to the Tie Defender.

Weren't they equipped with the tractor beam weapon specfically to counter the Defender's superior agility?

I'd add the beam weapon as 'spend your target lock, if this attack hits, enemy ship may only use green manoeuvers during the next turn, then cancel all dice results'.

Jamming beam something like spend your target lock to remove all focus, evade and blue target lock tokens from enemy ship.

Oh, yes, you are totally right.

I'll go away and research some DPFs and MGLTs to redraft the statline and dial.

(Currently have an infant to attend to!)

Yeah, good ship.

But I'd like to see GAT 12 blastboat more

Okay, new statline

Att: 1
Agil: 2

Hull: 3

Shields: 3

Actions: Boost, Reload, Focus, Target Lock

Base upgrade slots: 2 missiles, 2 torps, 1 sys. up, 1 bomb

Dial of a Tie Interceptor but with no hard greens, no hard 1, green 3 soft instead of green 2 soft, only a 4 K-turn.

I'll try and bash a dial pic together ASAP

Definitely Sys upgrade, for Tractor Beams.

I'm more and more tending towards a 'reload' action. This could easily be added to later ships that should behave like 'missile' boats, but it honestly would require a lot of playtesting to hone.

Hopefully making it an action balances it because you have to target lock most missiles, lending to the forward planning of when to use ordnance.

NEW ACTION: Reload Ordnance

The Imperial Missile Boat was designed to carry an unrivaled missile complement. Missile Boats rarely ran out of missiles during engagements, but the additional payload required specialised ordnance management systems to manage the large number of missiles (totally made up fluff)

When a ship with this action carries missiles or torpedoes, after you would normally discard one, instead flip it over. This action allows you to flip the missile or torpedo back to face up, allowing you to use that missile or torpedo again.
There is no limit to the number of times you may do this.

Even if a missile or torpedo does not explicitly require a target lock to use, you must have a target lock to fire missiles or torpedos with this ship.

NEW TITLE CARD: Nova-wing

The Missile Boat was an advanced missile platform designed to counter the Tie Defenders of the traitor Admiral Zaarin. Many were equipped with the SLAM (SubLight Accelerator Motor) system which acted as an 'afterburner', temporarily drawing on laser energy to increase the cruising speed of the craft. The SLAM equipped ships were nicknamed 'Nova-wings' by hotshot Imperial pilots, a nickname that was not officially approved by Imperial Command.

A model with this title card may forfeit its attack to boost using a 3 template instead of a 1 template.

Set would include

New rules card for Tractor Beams + tractor, decoy and jamming beam sys. upgrades.

Proton Bomb + bomb rules card

1 adv. concussion missiles (rules to come, or just as the previous thread)

1 homing

1 conc. missile

1 apt

1 torp

Rules card for reload action

Dial as above.

Hope I've not missed anything obvious.

Mu Squadron Pilot (PS 6, EPT) (No idea about ship cost yet)

Maarek Steel (unique, rules as Tie Defender)

If we wanted some none EPT pilots (although the Missile Boat was SO experimental that I'm not sure that's appropriate)

Maintenance Mechanic (PS 1)

Unfortunately, sometimes Rebel attacks happen near maintenance stations, and the only available pilots are those taking the fighters on test flights.

Bonus points for those who get the reference =)

Reload icon concept

Rough dial concept

These are awfully ugly, I know =)

I think 1/2/3/4 fits best.

Like already mentioned in the original thread, the Missile Boat should get a beam weapon slot for the traktor beam.

The traktor beam shouldn't be a system upgrade.

I was initially going to say 1/2/3/4, I just am tempted to be conservative with shields since home-brew rules can have a tendency to be a little overstacked. (although that's admittedly less common in the X-Wing community)

If people didn't think it was OP though, 4 would be more fitting, I think and agree.

Totally agree about the tractor slot. Keep the tractor beam off the B-Wing (which never had them) and allows you to add them to later ships.

I'd definitely consider a tractor slot for the Starwing/Assault Gunboat and as an Avenger upgrade for the X1.

Right.

The B-Wings must not get the tractor beam

Im happy to see another Missile Boat fan here, btw

Hence the other beam weapons in the original topic.

There is also a Topic about the Starwing.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/95346-assault-gunboat-values/?hl=%2Bassault+%2Bgunboat+%2Bvalues

I think I'd only change that Gunboat to have the option to take torpedoes. =) I seem to remember proton torpedoes being a pretty iconic part of flying the old gunboat. IIRC, before the Avenger, Imperial hyperspace fighter doctrine was a wave of superiority Gunboats with missiles and a bomber wave with torps.

Totally agree with everything else including the dial.

Can't think of any pilots for it, especially since Steele shouldn't be allowed to fly everything . (Even if I think he should and it is canon =3)

Can't think of any pilots for it, especially since Steele shouldn't be allowed to fly everything . (Even if I think he should and it is canon =3)

There should be a Stele for every imperial TIE variant + Gunboat + Missile Boat.

A Tie Bomber with Stele would be cool. Together with Proton Torpedos his ability would be useful at last.

Okay, new statline

Att: 1

Agil: 2

Hull: 3

Shields: 3

Actions: Boost, Reload, Focus, Target Lock

Base upgrade slots: 2 missiles, 2 torps, 1 sys. up, 1 bomb

Dial of a Tie Interceptor but with no hard greens, no hard 1, green 3 soft instead of green 2 soft, only a 4 K-turn.

I'll try and bash a dial pic together ASAP

Definitely Sys upgrade, for Tractor Beams.

Looking great! Let FFG playtest it as is, couple it with Jendon for quick reloads and targets.

My major concern is the reload action, at the moment.

Is it OP? Could it be balanced through points cost, or is its current drawback sufficient?

If it's okay, I'd be happy to keep that as the 'more missiles' solution to the MBoat problem =)

If I had the resources and nearby community, I'd love to really playtest this, especially seeing how it synergises with characters who distribute target locks.

I mean, I want the MBoat to be good and synergise well, but I don't want something that would imbalance the entire game or have to be costed too high to see decent use =)

The reload action will be fine.

I'm just going to say I like the boxy version, honestly.

Just so you guys know, you're never going to get this now. Because they gave everything from the Missile Boat(missiles, torpedoes, SLAM, reloads) to the Gunboat instead.

And weirdly enough, it's the default version of the Gunboat that's straight up a Missile Boat. And then the Title turns it into the Assault Gunboat from the games.

Was happy to see the Gunboat finally added. Was really bummed when I realized they designed it to make sure the Missile Boat would never be a thing.

Some people seem excited about this, but I think Gunboat mania is just clouding people's thinking.

6 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

it's the default version of the Gunboat that's straight up a Missile Boat

So ... you're annoyed that you won't get a Missile Boat other than the Missile Boat we'll be getting, because the Missile Boat we'll be getting is a straight up Missile Boat and also a GUNBOAT?

8 minutes ago, haslo said:

So ... you're annoyed that you won't get a Missile Boat other than the Missile Boat we'll be getting, because the Missile Boat we'll be getting is a straight up Missile Boat and also a GUNBOAT?

Except it doesn't look like or is called a Missile Boat. It's just all of the Missile Boat's abilities stolen and given to a different ship.

I am annoyed that this is not going to eventually be the separate ship it deserves to be.

Do we have a picture yet of the card? Or a link to the picture?

It has SLAM and reload, yeah, it's basically the Missile Boat.

I'm happy because Gunboat, I'm miffed because I still love the good old MIS too

A nice salve would be if the Gunboat was added to canon and the canon version was a consolidation of both ships.

Which is wishful thinking, perhaps, and I doubt anyone at Lucasfilm cares that much about the GUN or the MIS but I can dream.

7 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Except it doesn't look like or is called a Missile Boat. It's just all of the Missile Boat's abilities stolen and given to a different ship.

I am annoyed that this is not going to eventually be the separate ship it deserves to be.

Some video game iterations of the Missile Boat look very similar to the Assault Gunboat, just with added missile pods. I'm frankly not surprised FFG made them two variants of the same ship.

I expect a 2x <missile> slot with a way to get munitions token. Also SLAM. But missile boat should be 3x <missile> with munitions token and 1 firepower and slam.

2 hours ago, Joe Censored said:

Some video game iterations of the Missile Boat look very similar to the Assault Gunboat, just with added missile pods. I'm frankly not surprised FFG made them two variants of the same ship.

It just feels lazy. Like "We couldn't think of a way to make the Gunboat interesting, but people won't stfu about it so we have to add it. So instead, we'll take all the interesting stuff the Missile Boat does, the SLAM, the reloads, the jamming beam, and give it all to the Gunboat."

I might feel better about it if the Gunboat eventually gets an Aces pack, and the new model actually gets a Missile Boat redesign. Then at least you could have different models for the those in Assault and Missile Boat configurations.

I won't hold my breath though, the Vaksai only got a repaint instead of a new model...