Would it not be possible to get a Force Rating of 2 with a starting character just by investing heavily into talents anyhow, provided its a specialization tree that doesn't loop about extensively. If one wanted to justify starting as a Padawan that would be a method, though they would have under developed characteristics which could also be considered appropriate for your typical youngling.

I think much too much is being made of the Force aspect of Force and Destiny, for it to fit into a ABY timeline it inevitably will consist of more than just force users, One could easily argue Chewbacca or the Droids had significant Destinies of their own

Dumping that much chargen xp (75 for Emergent and 100 for Exile, plus the 20 to buy the spec, so you cant even make a Exile without being a Human.) into talents is a great way to hamstring your guy later on. Good luck making a Discipline (Force) check with a starting 2 Willpower. You could afford one power with emergent. And most players would heavily frown on the obvious min/maxing.

The same argument can be made for reading too much into Destiny of Force and Destiny. Additionally, "Destiny" as a phrase has only EVER been associated with Jedi in the Star Wars universe. Anakin(both), Luke, and any number of EU characters all have had a "destiny", and all are force wielders. And since i can already make Chewbacca, 3PO, and R2, im not shelling out money for a book that makes a character i already can make. Besides, those three aren't even main characters, and a significant destiny is not "being a plot tool for a main character". Destiny? Sure. But i wouldnt say significant. Its far more likely that Destiny, as a mechanic, will be similar to Obligation/Duty. Destiny as a more abstract concept can easily be handled by a GM getting together with a player before hand.

Im also wondering why FoD is projected by many to be in the "Rebellion Era". We know Edge takes place around/immediately after Yavin, and with a lack of fluff in the Age book i'd hazard it's slotted right around Hoth considering the Awing and Bwing weren't even introduced to the fleet until then. FoD could be either Prequel Era, around RotJ ,or immediately after. Putting a book with a heavy focus on the Force during the height of the empire would result in far too much "dont use your powers or the empire will drop a ton of stormies on your head" to make Force-user campaigns viable.

Im also wondering why FoD is projected by many to be in the "Rebellion Era". We know Edge takes place around/immediately after Yavin, and with a lack of fluff in the Age book i'd hazard it's slotted right around Hoth considering the Awing and Bwing weren't even introduced to the fleet until then. FoD could be either Prequel Era, around RotJ ,or immediately after. Putting a book with a heavy focus on the Force during the height of the empire would result in far too much "dont use your powers or the empire will drop a ton of stormies on your head" to make Force-user campaigns viable.

I think most of the reasoning for this is that this is a nice sweet spot to keep things. During the Original Trilogy. Rebel movement is in an upswing, there's more anger against the Empire who had just recently blown apart a planet and presently don't have another Death Star, and all key characters of the Original Trilogy are essentially still around and kicking. You change things up per-book, and everything starts getting difficult. Now The Death Star/II needs to be statted. Now characters like Luke need to be statted (assuming Lando even gets stats in Jewel of Yavin) for different time frames - when he was a farm boy, when he has been with the Rebels for a while, after he trains with Yoda, when he becomes a Jedi Knight, when he establishes his new Jedi Order. This also starts throwing things out of order with planets because now you need to describe how things are like in different time frames. Maybe the planet doesn't change, but the social impacts and military establishments will change based on the time frames, and would have to be mentioned.

They're going keep things all in one time frame to keep things simple - both for them and everyone else. That way it's up to the separate GMs to deal with homebrewing different time frames.

Donovan, you are making the assumption that FFG wants players to be force users right out of the gate. While this is certainly possible, it is not, at this point, guaranteed.

The nature of this game COULD be about reclaiming the legacy of the Jedi (or other force users). Force & Destiny could very well be a game that mimics Luke's journey through THE Trilogy, where you start as the uninitiated force user and grow into being a powerful force user.

There are so many characters in the current setting time period that become Jedi, but don't start that way. Luke Skywalker, Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn, etc. Etc.

Of course Donovan, if you do have some inside info about the game..

All those characters presumably start off in Edge or Rebellion careers and then buy into F&D specs. This is going to be a stand-alone game, based around the Force, I think it's a pretty safe accessment that the careers will reflect this.

Yes you can buy into the Force later in life, but the same could be said about a scoundrel joining the Rebellion later on in his life. That doesn't stop characters from starting the game as rebels.

The problem with this thinking is that it rewuires you to own the other books to make a character that comes into the force later in life.

Each of the three Star Wars RPG's that Fantasy Flight create are meant to be a stand alone game, that is compatible.

If you have a stand alone game, even with being force-centric, you need certain things iin it. Combat characters, medics, mechanics, pilots, etc.

The characters I mention should be kust as viable in this game as someone playing a Jedi that survived the purge.

At this point, I wonder if force sensitivity will be handed by the starting race. For example, we could get races that are known to have an innate connection to the force, like miraluka for example, and what would be a force sensitive human 'variant' similar to the correllian humans in Suns of Fortune for Edge of The Empire. Lower starting experience for force rating 1 right out of the gate.

This way, FFG can create some new specialties, and reprint necessary ones such as pilot, etc.

Also, if the xp cost can be extrapolated upon, we can get a conversion for other races from the other two game lines to spend xp to start with a force rating.

This would seem a bit convoluted to me, however.

This brings me back to my idea of commitment, being the duty/obligation mechanic for this game. The more commitment you have, the farther along in a force tradition you would be. Like duty, perhaps, as you accumulate commitment for a certain tradition (you can have more than one maybe) you get rewards like force rating. By decreasing the starting commitment, to represent the characters that come to the force later in life, you don't get the force rating, but mor experience to start. Other bonuses for high commitment, for the Jedi path, would be getting the lightsaber for 'free'. Basically if you spend some of your starting experience on commitment, you get more rewards along your chosen path, but less experience to spend on talents, specialties or skills.

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

I admit it's possible, but Age of Rebellion PCs don't start off any more powerful/potent than an EotE PC, and there is supposed to be a strong element of interchangeability between the three separate product lines. So while Force Rating 1 seems a given, immediately getting Force Rating 2 seems a bit off, as it's a significant leap in power since there's more chance of generating Light Side pips to start with and more of them; it'd be akin to getting a free increase from 2 to 3 in a Characteristic without having to pay any cost (XP or credits) to do so. I know that Force Rating 2 has come up due to the old EotE Beta chart that put "Jedi Padawans" at Force Rating 2, but I think it also has to be considered that your typical Jedi Padawan had been trained since the time they could walk in how to use the Force. It's like that most F&D PCs aren't going to have the benefit of that kind of extensive training, thus starting at Force Rating 1 as they're still learning the ropes.

As for PCs starting with lightsabers... we'll have to wait and see. As you said, EotE gives the PCs a pretty decent ship to start with , and AoR provides some pretty nifty options for PCs (an Imperial shuttle with forged clearances, a group of Y-Wings, or a base of operations and a substantial boost in starting funds). So it is possible that by selecting the Jedi career(s), a PC could have the option to begin play with a lightsaber as part of their "starting bonus" that EotE and AoR PCs all get to have.

Of course, if that is the case, then I hope that the rules do stress that breaking out the lightsaber in civilized space is going to garner a lot of the wrong attention. Ben's usage of his lightsaber in ANH eventually drew a squad of stormtroopers to the cantina ("looks like someone's taking an interest in your handiwork..."), while Luke only used his lightsaber when facing Vader (ESB and RotJ) or mowing down Jabba's goons while out at remote area of a remote planet, with most of the survivors being folks that were already cool with Luke being a Jedi. So yeah, a PC might get to have a lightsaber to start with, but if they're too quick to rely on it, then trouble's bound to come knocking. Possibly even of the cybernetic-bronchitis type if the PC makes a big enough nuisance of themselves.

I don't necessarily see the need to tie the mechanics to a specific era.

Now, I'm not saying starting Jedi should have a Force Rating over 1 but that doesn't mean they need to be geared only towards Rebellion Era play. Setting-wise there are only a hand full of Jedi around during this time so it seem like they won't constrain the mechanics to fit strictly within that.

As for a Padawan having a Force Rating 2 and that's because they've been trained their whole lives while the PC hasn't had that same treatment also seems like a unnecessary story and era restriction. Again, I don't think a starting Jedi should have a Force Rating above 1 but it's often the case in RPGs for a character to need to grow mechanically in order to more closely fit the concept.

Suppose a player wants to play the "typical" Jedi from D6 Star Wars - the grizzled gray Jedi. This guy was trained in the Jedi Temple. He is a Jedi knight. But it will take some time to purchase all the mechanical aspects to realize this concept fully. One approach is the GM starting each player with a really big XP bonus so they can make more experienced characters. Or - what's more common with my group - is the player does the best they can with a starting character and RPs the character to the concept. It can even be a fun RP exercise to explain why the Jedi didn't use a mind trick or some other ability they later acquire.

All the fluff, all the detailed text, and most of the ships/speeders as well as setting info are written from the assumption that you are using the DEFAULT timeline for your game: Rebellion Era. It doesn't do what WotC did and say, "you can run it in pre-Rebellion, Rebellion, or post-Rebellion," it goes ahead and makes the assumption that you're playing it adjacent to the OT.

If you want to run it at some other period of time? Go ahead. The rules are great enough that they can be used this way, and the gear and ships can have a new name slapped on each of them and be inserted into such a campaign. However, the default assumption is that you're characters are alive at the time of the Galactic Civil War - and that means that Jedi are extinct, and new PCs will NOT be Padawan-level characters - at least not without having some XP invested to make them so.

You can do with your campaign as you wish, and hand out more XP to start as you wish, but given how they've done the other rulebooks so far I don't see them making it possible for you to grab your lightsaber and start Episode IIIing it around the game world from the first session by default.

I always sort of default back on the enormity of the galaxy as an excuse to not worry about setting or plot issues terribly much. It's a given some Jedi avoided the purge and went into hiding in one form or another, or just flat out gave it up. It's not a big stretch, or even a canon issue, to suggest that as the Battle of Endor neared the call went out through whatever channels the Alliance could muster, calling in their banners if you will, that this was the moment and it was time to step up. So Force users, former Knights, Padawan or Jedi janitors, probably came out of the woods and launched a number of operations to draw off the Emperor's other minions/inquisitors/hands etc to give the Alliance fleet more breathing room.

That could happen, yes; but the fact remains that they're likely to make it so that starting PCs are equal in relative power to starting PCs of the other game lines. This being a likely possibility, how can you begin play as a full Jedi Knight and still be on equal footing to that Smuggler/Pilot?

I guess I just don't worry it. As long as all classes are sufficiently challenged by the game, to me how a Smuggler compares to a Jedi who compares to a HG heavy as compared to a BH Assassin isn't a concern for me personally. It's too easy to just fix or ignore what I don't like, the real beauty of RPGs imo. I'm sure F&D and how Jedi are worked into the game will be fun and scaled appropriately.

I'm sure F&D and how Jedi are worked into the game will be fun and scaled appropriately.

On that, we agree, 2P51. On that we agree.

I've been not listening to the Order 66 podcast a lot on my (long) drives back and forth from work. The one thing that came up a few times is how the force powers scale and will scale. One thing that came back a few times is that a character who sinks gobs of experience into Force powers is at the same time not sinking gobs of experience into the types of skills and talents another non-force sensitive might be.

They also pointed out that a 100pt Bounty Hunter in straight up combat will take out a 300xp scholar. That's a no-brainer. However, the bounty hunter will be way out of their league in a negotiation setting where players are horribly outnumbered, and combat isn't a safe option. Other games like Pathfinder and 4e mostly derive game balance from combat encounters, with non-combats operating more like a sidecar, referencing combat as a comparison.

The last time my group played, not a single blaster was drawn from its holster, and yet they got a lot done and enjoyed the session very much. Even my more combat-oriented PC felt that she contributed a lot to the development of the story.

I think that's the beauty of the game is that game balance comes from the the diversity of encounter types, and in that sense all character types are on equal footing. I don't see the development of Force-sensitives in F&D being any different.

But you arent playing lukes character. For that idea to work then every chargen in Destiny starts of with picking a tree thats an average joe and then buying into your force powers. Which again, we can already do that. Thats an awful way to make a standalone game. That would mean Destiny would really just be a rehash with some supplemental rules, and i bought enough of that kind of crap from THR and WotC. I have much higher faith in the FFG guys.

No you aren't playing Luke but his journey and abilities is the base for the system in place and will likely be the main reference for F&D. I'm not saying that there will be no powers or even other non-"Jedi" options we don't specifically see in Eps IV-VI but FFG has said many times that these films are the main inspiration for this series of RPGs. So far they have been true to their word and as such I expect they will continue to be so at least for the F&D CRB. This still leaves open supplements to add things that expand the setting, in fact with the timing of Ep VII it seems reasonable that there could be a supplement or even another CRB for that time period (if of course the game does well and they have the license).

FG, you seem to think that the new book will have some nonjedi and and some jedi careers. Why would you want to play a non jedi in a game predominantly about the force? That just doesnt make any sense.

Well people already are playing non-Jedi because they're not trained as them and I don't mean just in the use of the Force but any of the doctrine of the Jedi Order. In fact by Ep VI there are basically no members of the Jedi Order left except Luke and even he is not terribly familiar with it's dogma. It's not that you couldn't learn to be a Jedi but there aren't too many options on how you could become one. Plus the EU has several non-Jedi Force using paths and while we don't see these in the films it seems like a reasonable compromise for FFG to add them in as an option for Force sensitives to learn from.

In any case this is really only the fluff. I still think mechanically F&D will have all the current Careers plus an expanded and/or several choices of Force Talent Trees. The more I think about it the more I believe we will not see a specific Force User Career. My argument for this is that there is no infrastructure in the backstory of the Star Wars Universe to train Force Users during the Rebellion Era. Unlike all the current Careers which are developed in a way for any number of PCs to learn from, nothing like this exists for Force Users because there is no reliable way for you to learn the skills necessary to be a Jedi. Any PC that wanted to be a Jedi would be one of a handful of people in the entire galaxy trying, this is great for telling a story as we see in Luke's journey but it's no basis for a Career path in the RAW sense.

Hate to break it you FuriousGreg, but there are a slew of Force Traditions in the EU that have the infrastructure to train new recruits/disciples. Some examples include the Dathomir Witches, the Baran Do Sages, the Fallanasi, and the Jensaarai, just to name a few, all of which have showed up in the EU outside of RPG supplements. And the EU as a whole hasn't been tossed out just yet, so all the Force traditions that have cropped up and are not specifically listed to be extinct still exist in the Rebellion Era. They may not be Jedi, but they've been trained in how to use the Force.

Right now, EotE and AoR treat being a Force user of any type as a secondary aspect of a character, with the primary aspect either being life on the fringe (EotE) or actively combating the Empire (AoR) for each of those games. But Force & Destiny has been described by FFG's own RPG managers as being the book that's all about exploring the Force, with being a Force user as the primary aspect of the game. The Exile and the Emergent both have very strong indications of "self taught" or "minimal instruction" in terms of being Force-users. They're the folks that never had anyone to really sit down and show them the ropes the way that other Force traditions are able to do.

And while getting fully trained as a Jedi might not be possible, as noted there are plenty of other Force traditions that can offer training as part of the PC's background, again making it a major focus of that character, just as Obligation is a major part of an EotE character or Duty is a major part of an AoR character.

Since the earliest days of the Edge of the Empire Beta, the customer base has been asking for Jedi as playable characters from the very start, much as Jedi Ronin indicated, and FFG are undoubtedly going to try and satisfy that demand. Plus, with The Clone Wars only recently ended and Episode VII on the way, there's going to be a big surge of interest in being able to play actual Jedi amongst the RPG fanbase. Not the "let's pretend" version of taking Exile or Emergent and hopefully getting your hands on a ligthsaber, but a bonafide Jedi that's an inheritor of a legacy that stretches back for a thousand generations, capable of using a lighsaber proficiently and having a deeper understanding of the Force than the sort of untrained adept that the Exile and Emergent both represent. There have been threads on different message boards about "system's nice, but call me when it's complete and I can play a Jedi," and it's been something that the design team have been aware of since they opted to split the game into three core rulebooks instead trying to cram everything into a single tome. There was already a backlash when folks got the EotE Beta and saw there were no true Jedi (yeah, you could create a facsimile, but it was just a facsimile and not the real deal), and while FFG was able to stem some of that with "don't worry, we'll get there in a couple years," they're not going to be able to do it if Force & Destiny (the finale of the three core rulebooks) doesn't offer at least some kind of Force user career.

I would disagree that EoE and AoR treat the Force as some secondary thing. Rather, I see the games treating the Together as another ability that characters have. I don't see it as being stapled onto the side but as another source of training. Similar to how an already skilled pilot can pick up a combat heavy specialization in order to continue their growth, so too can a character grow by becoming more skilled with the Force.

I get that there are some sore bums because you can't play your fanatsy space knight. But when you make a 1st level D&D character in accordance with the rules, you are little more than some vagrant without a sword and wet ears. In Star Wars, it's far more interesting for a character to become a powerful Jedi and a master of the Force, rather than get all huffy about not being cool enough to start. I just played my first session with a new mechanic and now have enough XP to pick up a Force user specialization. I'm much more excited about fighting for it and earning it, and training those abilities alongside my other skills and talents than I would have been if I had just started as a Force user.

To be honest, the more I honk about it, the more I fond myself agreeing with a lack of a Jedi career. Two simple words have always troubled we when trying to foresee a Jedi or Force using career; universal specialization. These two words have caused me far more trouble than any juvenile quest for a lightsaber. Specifically, the Exile and Emergent specializations are universal, boasting something of an XP discount for those who would take them. A Jedi class would be exclusive, penalizing those who came to the Force but seek further training and mastery. When I look at a universal Force specialization, the only problem I see is sore bums over not feeling cool enough. But when I look at a Jedi class, I see problems for migration, reverse incompatibility, arguments about lightsabers, power fluctuations, pigeon holes, labels, EU problems, and countless other unnecessary complications. Force use as an additional ability is almost beautiful and graceful in it's simplicity.

For those who are going to continue getting so upset over not being able to play the endgame at thr beginning and have everything handed to them, this really isn't the hobby for you. Every single roleplaying game on the market is about growth and progression. You'll see no different here or anywhere else. While the internet whines and moans about their precious white whale, I'll carry on enjoying this game and exploring the stories presented by the Force.

For those who are going to continue getting so upset over not being able to play the endgame at thr beginning and have everything handed to them, this really isn't the hobby for you.

I don't think anyone here is saying that characters will be starting at the end of progression here – unless you see Force Rating 2 or 3 the end.

This kind of combative hyperbole doesn't really add anything to the conversation.

You do realize that to build a character who "came to the force later in life" you would HAVE to have the other books, just the same as if you wanted to play a smuggler who later joined the Alliance(Edge to Age)? If you want to play a smuggler who became a jedi then you are a SMUGGLER(insert spec), who picked up force training later on, which you can already do. There is absolutely no need for Destiny to reprint the "base" careers to represent your life before you became a Jedi/Sith/Jensarrai/etc. Look at any D&D game, your previous life before you became a level one whatever really doesn't matter, its what you are now. Hell, Edge and Age dont require you to go through a "basic" tree to represent what you knew before you chose your career.

I mean, take Luke for example. Hes clearly some sort of Edge character at first, a Fringer i'd say, then joining the Alliance and picking up some Ace Pilot, before easing into an Exile/Emergent/or something from Force by the time of RotJ. To make an accurately make a replica of Luke in game terms, you'd need 2 and probably the 3rd book. Do you NEED multiple books to make something close? No. For Edge mix Fringer/Pilot/Exile and boom Luke in a can. For Age I'd say Scout(?)/Pilot/Emergent and ding!

And like Donovan said, with the Clone Wars wrapping up and Rebels launching soon, i wouldnt be surprised if the focus for Destiny would be escaped Padawans, Jedi exiles, and other lower-powered Force users. That way they wouldnt be super powered wizards, and would have an excuse for why they escaped the Purge, as they didnt stand out enough to get picked up.

The focus will be on Force-users. Whether you always were one or you came to it later, either will be a viable approach. The book will have Force careers and non-Force careers. What the numbers will be is anybody's guess at this point. I am pretty sure FFG will stick to their 6 careers and 18 specs approach. We may see a predominance of Force careers with a couple of non-Force careers. Further support for non-Force users may come in the form of a new universal spec(s) much like Force use is a unispec in EotE and AoR.

It's a big galaxy. Whether or not someone uses the Force or a lightsaber does not mean the Empire is going to show up any second. Feel free to use this if you wish, but it is not a stick to keep your Jedi players in line. Very few individuals make a Force-using character only to be hobbled all the time. And I sincerely doubt, no matter what era they are focusing on, that your Jedi is going to have to fire a blaster or swing a vibrosword/training saber until you can get your lightsaber (that sounds like the SWMMO). As I said, they will probably tie this into whatever mechanic ("Commitment") is in F&D.

Force-using characters must invest in skills, talents and powers. Compared to other characters that only need to invest in skills and talents this will add up. Sure you can make a run for the Force Rating talent or the Reflection talent or buy up all of the move power, but you are going to leave yourself as a one trick pony. They may also break lightsaber training out from the Jedi specs and make them unispecs, thus allow for situations like Grevious, a non-Force user using a lightsaber. This would mean yet something else to invest in. In general, without the corner cases of focusing, Force-users are going to have their XP spread out more than other non-Force characters.

Reminds me of the olden D&D days when you had single class and multi-class characters and the multi-class characters split their XP amongst their classes and had a slower progression.

You do realize that to build a character who "came to the force later in life" you would HAVE to have the other books, just the same as if you wanted to play a smuggler who later joined the Alliance(Edge to Age)? If you want to play a smuggler who became a jedi then you are a SMUGGLER(insert spec), who picked up force training later on, which you can already do. There is absolutely no need for Destiny to reprint the "base" careers to represent your life before you became a Jedi/Sith/Jensarrai/etc. Look at any D&D game, your previous life before you became a level one whatever really doesn't matter, its what you are now. Hell, Edge and Age dont require you to go through a "basic" tree to represent what you knew before you chose your career.

I'm going to try and say something very profound, but I don't mean for it to be condescending. Fantasy Flight expects you to buy all three games. Welcome to the tabletop gaming hobby. While you certainly don't need to, the expectation is that the vast, sweeping majority of players are going to buy all three games. Why on earth wouldn't FFG bank on that?

Cynicism aside, they are doing well to make all three stand alone where possible. It's possible though uncertain that Exile and Emergent could be reprinted or that something similar would be available. Force using specializations doesn't mean only one. If the game is focusing on the Force, we will probably see a few. Look at AoR. The Beta included two universal specializations (one for Force users and one as a training regiment for new Rebels). Why can't F&D include a half dozen specializations outside of the career system?

So no, you wouldn't HAVE to own EoE and AoR because the impression is to make each working on its own. But FFG is kind of expecting it and is actively supporting those fans who support them financially by buying each one. Expect a huge amount a reprinted and similar material, because that's exactly what we have seen from AoR. But that isn't really a bad thing.

So... how many XP is it going to cost to toss around a star destroyer? Now go build some not force using classes. What can they do with that number of points? A hired gun can kill all the minions and become nearly invulnerable as some of their abilities...everybody seems to be able to be pretty bad ass, How often do you think tossing star destroyers is going to come up?

So no, you wouldn't HAVE to own EoE and AoR because the impression is to make each working on its own. But FFG is kind of expecting it and is actively supporting those fans who support them financially by buying each one. Expect a huge amount a reprinted and similar material, because that's exactly what we have seen from AoR. But that isn't really a bad thing.

So what exactly is "profound" about a company hoping that folks buy all the products in a given product line? Particularly for a company that sells RPG products? WotC, White Wolf, Palladium, Green Ronin are all hoping that folks buy every book published for a given product line, since that makes them money and thus allows them to keep creating more product,. and FFG is no different in that respect as they are a "for profit" company and thus have a strong interest in being as profitable a company as they can, especially given the costs involved in licensed products as opposed to working with their own intellectual property.

There's a video on the EotE web site that has Jay Little, Sam Stewart, Steve Horvath, and couple other FFG folks discussing what their vision is for the product line. Early on, they realized/decided that instead of trying to cram everything into one book (the standard approach used by WEG and WotC), they were better off splitting into three books, and with some very good reasons that make sense from both a design perspective and a business perspective.

First, it allows them to cover each of the three aspects of the Star Wars universe (the Han Solos/Fringe, the Rebels, and Jedi) in better detail than just one book would allow for. Second, it lets those players that are only interested in certain aspects of the Star Wars setting pick and choose which books they buy; I'm sure there are folks that will stick with just the EotE product line, just as there are bound to be folks that stick with just the AoR product line or will stick with the F&D product line once that comes out. FFG has probably seen this with the WH40K product line, with some folks sticking a certain branch of the game and disregarding the rest. White Wolf's product line has this two, as just because someone bought the books for Vampire doesn't mean they're ever going to consider buying the books for Werewolf or Mage or Changeling, and some of their customer base wouldn't touch Exalted with a 20 foot pole.

On the business front, a combined book would probably be approaching a $100 price point if they tried to include everything they could, or there'd be a lot of stuff missing if they opted to keep the page count low enough to warrant a $60 price point. One of the most common criticisms leveled at the WotC core rulebooks (OCR, RCR, and Saga Edition) was that they tried to cover too many bases at once (namely in the form of eras of play) which often left GMs with era-specific material that was of minimal use to their campaigns. FFG has averted that by focusing on the Rebellion Era up front, and they've got the opportunity to later to sourcebooks for other eras; maybe we will see a Rise of the Empire/Clone Wars setting book now that the TV series has concluded and things are bit more stable in that time frame, or perhaps a KOTOR era book if there's enough demand for it, so they've got the option open presuming they're able to retain the license for that long (speculation is that it'll expire in 2015, with fears that WotC will simply drop a ton of money to reacquire what's become a hot new license and then push a badly reskinned D&DNext clone, much as they did with the OCR).

Since these are each a core rulebook, of course there's going to be reprinted material in the form of rules, such as how the dice work, skill descriptions, talents, equipment listings, combat mechanics, several vehicles, as well as the five previously published Force powers from EotE & AoR. It'd be stupid of them to market this as a "core rulebook" and then not have the basic rules and mechanics needed to play the game. And a sure-fire way to aggravate and alienate potential customers that are interested in playing a Force-centric campaign is to require them to purchase another book just to get the base rules needed, particularly as EotE and AoR are fully capable of being played independent of the other. Is it fun to mix and match elements of the two games? Certainly, and if the GM's budget allows they can do just that.

As for just reprinting all the careers and specs from the prior books, that move is both lazy (something the FFG writing team certainly is not) and very likely to upset/alienate those folks that already purchased the EotE and/or AoR core rulebooks, as they'll already have the bulk of those careers and specs. Over on the AoR forums, there was a thread by someone worried about needing to shell out the $60 for the EotE rulebook just so they could play Age of Rebellion, and there were threads from folks upset that they'd paid $30 for the AoR Beta when a sizable chunk of the book was stuff they already had from the EotE rulebook. If FFG was just going to do as you said and just slap in a few new Force specializations to be tacked on to the existing careers, then Force & Destiny would just be a supplement rather than a core rulebook, and unless FFG has radically altered their design strategy with their Star Wars RPG product line in the past several months, the plan was to have F&D be it's own core rulebook, and thus necessitating new and original content to entice folks that have bought one or both of the other two core rulebooks to drop another $60 on this one.

And Only War will be a supplement for Dark Heresy...

The point being: none of us knows **** all what FFG will do.

And Only War will be a supplement for Dark Heresy...

The point being: none of us knows **** all what FFG will do.

And how was "Only War" marketed in the first place? Was it ever said that it'd be a stand-alone rulebook that could be run on it's own the same way that Rogue Trader or Deathwatch? Or did the fanbase just assume it'd be standalone?

From Day One when FFG made the big announcement at GenCon 2012 that they had the RPG license, they've said "three core rulebooks" for each aspect of the Star Wars setting with Force & Destiny being the last in the line. Age of Rebellion didn't wind up just being a supplement, and FFG could have easily taken that route. Even at GenCon 2013, I overheard a few different FFG folks that would be in the know (such as Jay Little, Sam Stewart, and Steve Horvath) mention a "Force & Destiny core rulebook to complete the set" to folks that asked about being able to play Jedi or just Force-users in general, and given that many RPG products are designed at least a year in advance, if F&D was going to just be a supplement, those are three of the folks that would most certainly be in the know about it. And they could have very easily just gone the supplement route with Age of Rebellion... and yet later this year we're getting an Age of Rebellion core rulebook that can be run entirely separate from Edge of the Empire.

To clarify: Things change, what people say/intend included.

To further clarify: We'll just have to wait and see, yeah?

I do agree that having reprints of all the specialties would be a bad idea, but at the same time some SHOULD be reprinted. Pilot, for instance, is a tree that needs no change. If I recall some of the force poweres can already augment this tree, so having a Jedi pilot specialty would be a waste and redundant.

As for careers, perhaps we will see it like this: two non force specific, and one force focused of the three to a career.

We could get the warrior career that has maurauder, possibly an armour/defensive career (if new call it guardian - but its not Jedi specific) and lightsaber duelist - which may not even need force talents, as Pre Visla ib the clone wars used a lightsaber.

For the Luke/Anakin build, a career that has the pilot, mechanic and one more specialty.

How often do you think tossing star destroyers is going to come up?

Hopefully never. Force users with EXISTING mechanics already can be extremely powerful. The last thing this game needs is TFU nonsense. Killing a room full of mooks is nowhere comparable to pulling a Star Destroyer out of orbit.

If I recall some of the force poweres can already augment this tree, so having a Jedi pilot specialty would be a waste and redundant.

I disagree. This is the exact reason that both Overwhelm Emotions and the Influence power exist: they do similar things, but one is in the core Force User Spec and the other is a Power. Different approaches for different people: some people will want some kind of "Force social ability" but have no interest in buying into the Power, while others want the Power but don't care about doubling back inside the FS Spec after getting Dedication. I LIKE that this games goes a way to discourage One True Builds by providing different options that have similar mechanics but different commitments.

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

I admit it's possible, but Age of Rebellion PCs don't start off any more powerful/potent than an EotE PC, and there is supposed to be a strong element of interchangeability between the three separate product lines. So while Force Rating 1 seems a given, immediately getting Force Rating 2 seems a bit off, as it's a significant leap in power since there's more chance of generating Light Side pips to start with and more of them; it'd be akin to getting a free increase from 2 to 3 in a Characteristic without having to pay any cost (XP or credits) to do so. I know that Force Rating 2 has come up due to the old EotE Beta chart that put "Jedi Padawans" at Force Rating 2, but I think it also has to be considered that your typical Jedi Padawan had been trained since the time they could walk in how to use the Force. It's like that most F&D PCs aren't going to have the benefit of that kind of extensive training, thus starting at Force Rating 1 as they're still learning the ropes.

As for PCs starting with lightsabers... we'll have to wait and see. As you said, EotE gives the PCs a pretty decent ship to start with , and AoR provides some pretty nifty options for PCs (an Imperial shuttle with forged clearances, a group of Y-Wings, or a base of operations and a substantial boost in starting funds). So it is possible that by selecting the Jedi career(s), a PC could have the option to begin play with a lightsaber as part of their "starting bonus" that EotE and AoR PCs all get to have.

Of course, if that is the case, then I hope that the rules do stress that breaking out the lightsaber in civilized space is going to garner a lot of the wrong attention. Ben's usage of his lightsaber in ANH eventually drew a squad of stormtroopers to the cantina ("looks like someone's taking an interest in your handiwork..."), while Luke only used his lightsaber when facing Vader (ESB and RotJ) or mowing down Jabba's goons while out at remote area of a remote planet, with most of the survivors being folks that were already cool with Luke being a Jedi. So yeah, a PC might get to have a lightsaber to start with, but if they're too quick to rely on it, then trouble's bound to come knocking. Possibly even of the cybernetic-bronchitis type if the PC makes a big enough nuisance of themselves.

I don't necessarily see the need to tie the mechanics to a specific era.

Now, I'm not saying starting Jedi should have a Force Rating over 1 but that doesn't mean they need to be geared only towards Rebellion Era play. Setting-wise there are only a hand full of Jedi around during this time so it seem like they won't constrain the mechanics to fit strictly within that.

As for a Padawan having a Force Rating 2 and that's because they've been trained their whole lives while the PC hasn't had that same treatment also seems like a unnecessary story and era restriction. Again, I don't think a starting Jedi should have a Force Rating above 1 but it's often the case in RPGs for a character to need to grow mechanically in order to more closely fit the concept.

Suppose a player wants to play the "typical" Jedi from D6 Star Wars - the grizzled gray Jedi. This guy was trained in the Jedi Temple. He is a Jedi knight. But it will take some time to purchase all the mechanical aspects to realize this concept fully. One approach is the GM starting each player with a really big XP bonus so they can make more experienced characters. Or - what's more common with my group - is the player does the best they can with a starting character and RPs the character to the concept. It can even be a fun RP exercise to explain why the Jedi didn't use a mind trick or some other ability they later acquire.

All the fluff, all the detailed text, and most of the ships/speeders as well as setting info are written from the assumption that you are using the DEFAULT timeline for your game: Rebellion Era. It doesn't do what WotC did and say, "you can run it in pre-Rebellion, Rebellion, or post-Rebellion," it goes ahead and makes the assumption that you're playing it adjacent to the OT.

If you want to run it at some other period of time? Go ahead. The rules are great enough that they can be used this way, and the gear and ships can have a new name slapped on each of them and be inserted into such a campaign. However, the default assumption is that you're characters are alive at the time of the Galactic Civil War - and that means that Jedi are extinct, and new PCs will NOT be Padawan-level characters - at least not without having some XP invested to make them so.

You can do with your campaign as you wish, and hand out more XP to start as you wish, but given how they've done the other rulebooks so far I don't see them making it possible for you to grab your lightsaber and start Episode IIIing it around the game world from the first session by default.

Then what's the point of an entire core rule book centered on the force that's been officially billed as allowing you to finally play a Jedi?

Because if they are sticking strictly to an era in which the Jedi are down to a handful - perhaps only one not-fully trained member depending on how much you stick to the movies - then why write a whole new core book designed to run on it's own for such a narrow character concept?

If this is going to be so narrowly focused on the Rebellion Era that a Jedi isn't going to really be a playable character at the start then a new core book isn't necessary. If the book is going to be so constrained then you're not going to have more than one player at the table able to use it. ("Wow, you're being trained by Luke too!" or "Wow, you're a long lost Jedi hermit too!").