Think about it, Bond is a 'secret agent', yet he goes around introducing himself *by name* to everyone he meets.

"He is England’s blunt instrument of international assault — the spiteful, vicious bastard of a faded empire that still wants the world to do as it’s bloody well told."

--Warren Ellis

(Full post HERE - a really good read)

Bond is awesome. Fact. England is awesomer. FACT.

Doctor Who is then the most awesome thing on the reality beyond space and time! XD

I agree that we produce good fiction.

I just want to come right out and kill this wishlisting before it gets much further. There is absolutely no basis to think that F&D is going to let brand new characters start with a 10 000+ credit ligtsaber and the skill to use it just because you are butt hurt about being able to play a Jedi in d20 or Saga.

Sure they can. They could work it into the Obligation/Debt/"Commitment" mechanic. You could receive a lightsaber by taking on or reducing it depending whether or not it is a negative or positive mechanic. This way it will allow for characters that are Jedi to be created for any era rather than tying the book to one era.

Please, for the love of the Force, get it through your heads that this is not the Old Republic. Jedi are fugitives, their hokey religion forgotten, and their tools outlawed and destroyed. What handful of Jedi still exist who would even know of such things wouldn't be able to access the crystal cave on Ilum because they were destroyed. While Luke got his pappy's lightsaber, he didn't use it for an entire movie, and then not meaningfully until after he was trained by Yoda.

And they will not be tying any negative effects of using the Force or lightsabers to the Rise of the Empire/Rebellion era. That would be rather foolish as while they are focusing the books on the OT era, the mechanics are to be used at any time. Stuff like that will be left to fluff and not hard-coded into rules like "you can't start without a lightsaber because..." or "you can't have the lightsaber skill till later because...".

At the end of the day FFG want to create a game the will be able to be played in any era, so you will be able to create a Jedi out of the gate. There will be options for getting a lightsaber right away, having a mentor (Force ghost or not), learning from holocrons, light side, dark side, and more, in one form or another.

Hell, if Jar Jar could be a Jedi for an entire episode in TCW, then ANYONE can, amirite?

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

I may be in the minority (and if someone else brought this up earlier I missed it) but I think it's possible that there will be no Force User Careers per se rather rules that expand on the current system. A Force user "Career" would instead be a choice among more developed Talent Trees that any PC could take along with any Career choice.

This would make sense in the context of the current RAWs (EotE & AoR) and in my opinion a better route that more accurately matches what we see in the films this series is based on (Eps IV-VI). It would also work in the later Eras at least up until we get the New Jedi Order.

I agree that we produce good fiction.

And the people to the north of you make fantastic whisky also......

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

Starting with FR 2+ "for free" directly affects how interchangeable the game lines actually are because it would start F&D characters much further ahead on the power curve.

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

Starting with FR 2+ "for free" directly affects how interchangeable the game lines actually are because it would start F&D characters much further ahead on the power curve.

Exactly. This is one reason why I'm more inclined to believe there will be no "Jedi" Career or any Force User Careers at all rather new Force Talent Trees that conform to their kind of training, just like we see in EotE and AoR with Emergent and Exile.

I suspect we'll see a couple of "Jedi" Talent Tree options, a couple of Darkside/Sith Trees, and a couple of others covering other types of Force training.

Edit: I suspect that they will probably not include Darkside/Sith in the Core book but a later supplement so I included it anyway.

Why do you think there will be Sith trees? We haven't seen any intent by FFG yet to support directly evil character types in either existing game line.

Why do you think there will be Sith trees? We haven't seen any intent by FFG yet to support directly evil character types in either existing game line.

Well I figure since the Emperor and Vader are nominally "Sith" I lumped it into a Darkside/Sith category. I suspect that they will probably not include them in the Core book but a later supplement so I included it anyway.

Edit: I edited my other post to reflect this.

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

I admit it's possible, but Age of Rebellion PCs don't start off any more powerful/potent than an EotE PC, and there is supposed to be a strong element of interchangeability between the three separate product lines. So while Force Rating 1 seems a given, immediately getting Force Rating 2 seems a bit off, as it's a significant leap in power since there's more chance of generating Light Side pips to start with and more of them; it'd be akin to getting a free increase from 2 to 3 in a Characteristic without having to pay any cost (XP or credits) to do so. I know that Force Rating 2 has come up due to the old EotE Beta chart that put "Jedi Padawans" at Force Rating 2, but I think it also has to be considered that your typical Jedi Padawan had been trained since the time they could walk in how to use the Force. It's like that most F&D PCs aren't going to have the benefit of that kind of extensive training, thus starting at Force Rating 1 as they're still learning the ropes.

As for PCs starting with lightsabers... we'll have to wait and see. As you said, EotE gives the PCs a pretty decent ship to start with , and AoR provides some pretty nifty options for PCs (an Imperial shuttle with forged clearances, a group of Y-Wings, or a base of operations and a substantial boost in starting funds). So it is possible that by selecting the Jedi career(s), a PC could have the option to begin play with a lightsaber as part of their "starting bonus" that EotE and AoR PCs all get to have.

Of course, if that is the case, then I hope that the rules do stress that breaking out the lightsaber in civilized space is going to garner a lot of the wrong attention. Ben's usage of his lightsaber in ANH eventually drew a squad of stormtroopers to the cantina ("looks like someone's taking an interest in your handiwork..."), while Luke only used his lightsaber when facing Vader (ESB and RotJ) or mowing down Jabba's goons while out at remote area of a remote planet, with most of the survivors being folks that were already cool with Luke being a Jedi. So yeah, a PC might get to have a lightsaber to start with, but if they're too quick to rely on it, then trouble's bound to come knocking. Possibly even of the cybernetic-bronchitis type if the PC makes a big enough nuisance of themselves.

FuriousGreg,

I disagree about any new Force specializations simply being Universal add-ons like the Exile or the Emergent. For those two, they were intended to be optional add-ons to a PC from their respective rulebooks, with both EotE and AoR flat-out saying that the player should get the GM's permission before selecting them for their characters, and the rules for the Force were stuck in the back of the book, being the last PC-relevant chapter before the book moved into the GM-only sections.

In contrast, the Force is going to be one of the major themes of Force & Destiny, so having one or more careers that are centered on letting the PCs being Force-users makes better sense as it will allow players of that system to have such characters by default rather than have to pay an extra charge (XP from their starting budget) to buy an extra specialization. It'd be akin to running a D&D game where the party Wizard or Cleric aren't permitted access to their spellcasting ability (the defining ability of each class) at 1st level in a game that's frequently marketed as high-fantasy.

I wonder if we are wrong in assuming that Force and Destiny characters will start with 1 Force Rating. Why not 2 or 3? You can do it at the Career level so it's limited to F&D characters.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

I admit it's possible, but Age of Rebellion PCs don't start off any more powerful/potent than an EotE PC, and there is supposed to be a strong element of interchangeability between the three separate product lines. So while Force Rating 1 seems a given, immediately getting Force Rating 2 seems a bit off, as it's a significant leap in power since there's more chance of generating Light Side pips to start with and more of them; it'd be akin to getting a free increase from 2 to 3 in a Characteristic without having to pay any cost (XP or credits) to do so. I know that Force Rating 2 has come up due to the old EotE Beta chart that put "Jedi Padawans" at Force Rating 2, but I think it also has to be considered that your typical Jedi Padawan had been trained since the time they could walk in how to use the Force. It's like that most F&D PCs aren't going to have the benefit of that kind of extensive training, thus starting at Force Rating 1 as they're still learning the ropes.

As for PCs starting with lightsabers... we'll have to wait and see. As you said, EotE gives the PCs a pretty decent ship to start with , and AoR provides some pretty nifty options for PCs (an Imperial shuttle with forged clearances, a group of Y-Wings, or a base of operations and a substantial boost in starting funds). So it is possible that by selecting the Jedi career(s), a PC could have the option to begin play with a lightsaber as part of their "starting bonus" that EotE and AoR PCs all get to have.

Of course, if that is the case, then I hope that the rules do stress that breaking out the lightsaber in civilized space is going to garner a lot of the wrong attention. Ben's usage of his lightsaber in ANH eventually drew a squad of stormtroopers to the cantina ("looks like someone's taking an interest in your handiwork..."), while Luke only used his lightsaber when facing Vader (ESB and RotJ) or mowing down Jabba's goons while out at remote area of a remote planet, with most of the survivors being folks that were already cool with Luke being a Jedi. So yeah, a PC might get to have a lightsaber to start with, but if they're too quick to rely on it, then trouble's bound to come knocking. Possibly even of the cybernetic-bronchitis type if the PC makes a big enough nuisance of themselves.

I don't necessarily see the need to tie the mechanics to a specific era.

Now, I'm not saying starting Jedi should have a Force Rating over 1 but that doesn't mean they need to be geared only towards Rebellion Era play. Setting-wise there are only a hand full of Jedi around during this time so it seem like they won't constrain the mechanics to fit strictly within that.

As for a Padawan having a Force Rating 2 and that's because they've been trained their whole lives while the PC hasn't had that same treatment also seems like a unnecessary story and era restriction. Again, I don't think a starting Jedi should have a Force Rating above 1 but it's often the case in RPGs for a character to need to grow mechanically in order to more closely fit the concept.

Suppose a player wants to play the "typical" Jedi from D6 Star Wars - the grizzled gray Jedi. This guy was trained in the Jedi Temple. He is a Jedi knight. But it will take some time to purchase all the mechanical aspects to realize this concept fully. One approach is the GM starting each player with a really big XP bonus so they can make more experienced characters. Or - what's more common with my group - is the player does the best they can with a starting character and RPs the character to the concept. It can even be a fun RP exercise to explain why the Jedi didn't use a mind trick or some other ability they later acquire.

Donovan, you are making the assumption that FFG wants players to be force users right out of the gate. While this is certainly possible, it is not, at this point, guaranteed.

The nature of this game COULD be about reclaiming the legacy of the Jedi (or other force users). Force & Destiny could very well be a game that mimics Luke's journey through THE Trilogy, where you start as the uninitiated force user and grow into being a powerful force user.

There are so many characters in the current setting time period that become Jedi, but don't start that way. Luke Skywalker, Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn, etc. Etc.

Of course Donovan, if you do have some inside info about the game..

Why do you think there will be Sith trees? We haven't seen any intent by FFG yet to support directly evil character types in either existing game line.

It would be helpful for GMs for creating Sith villains.

But on the other hand it could be argued that there really isn't a lot of mechanical difference between Sith and Jedi. The Sith can use force lightning but I don't think we see them do anything else in the movies that a Jedi isn't doing. The difference between Sith and Jedi is much more one of following the path of the Dark Side or Light Side. Maybe we'll see mechanics along those lines which would be cool as a temptation for force users.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

In Edge, no one has to wait to get a ship (it's not the smuggler's ship unless the group wants it to be, it's a group asset), but they also don't start off with the best ship around. Likewise I don't think that starting with a high FR is appropriate.

DM

Maybe, maybe not. Keeping in mind that these games follow Eps IV- VI and how we've seen how the current system of handling the Force I'm not convinced that it will be that much different mechanically. I can see how it would work without a specific Force User Career with Force Talent Trees and still have quite viable PCs that fit well. They could start the game with a manditory Destiny (obligation) to "pay" for the extra EXP cost and such or some other mechanic. Also this would build in a balancing mechanic to make Force powers more costly.

That said I can also see a Force User Career but it would feel out of place in the storyline of this RPG series.

I can also see it being handled as Talent Trees like EotE & AoR in the Core book but have actual Careers in a supplement. Honestly I don't know but in truth I like it to be this option.

Also if there are no specific Careers there is a much greater choice and varity to Force using PCs, which I think is a good thing.

FFG didn't make smugglers wait to get their ship. This is a game about Jedi, why not get right to it?

In Edge, no one has to wait to get a ship (it's not the smuggler's ship unless the group wants it to be, it's a group asset), but they also don't start off with the best ship around. Likewise I don't think that starting with a high FR is appropriate.

True, but I don't find Force Rating 2 as "high."

From my perspective it would be lame to market a game about playing a Jedi and then have to slog through a period where you weren't strong enough for your powers to be worth anything.

Of course, as stated up-thread, it's an assumption on my part that the game is focused on playing Jedi. I think it's likely based on what has come, but I have as little insight into the matter as anyone else speculating.

The problem with assuming that Destiny will start players out as unintiated force users is that we have two books that HAVE uninitated force users in them. Notice how theres no "starter" careers/specs in Edge or Age? Going by the current career model, every spec in Destiny would have to be on par with the exile and emergent specs. Thats going to be pretty underwhelming. You telling me you expect them to put in 16 force/force-related specializations and none of them stand out as a kinda "thats the Jedi knight or Master" path? Remember, they all have to be balanced as viable chargen picks. I don think thats very viable. The sheer amoun tof overlap in talents would be stupid. "Oh look, every tree has insight, uncanny senses, uncanny reactions, sense danger and touch of fate" Boringggggg. And yes, those can easily be expected in almost any force related talent tree as they are hallmarks of force user. Sprinkle in grit and toughened for taste, alonng with dedication and a few force ratings. Thats a 1/4 to 1/3 of every talent tree sharing the same talents. Urggghhhh. Me no buy bad lazy book.

I think its far.more likely that well see a much different structure to careers in this book, more like paths as some have suggested. For one thing, careers and specs are far more interchangable between edge and age. An ace: pilot is the same thing as a smuggler: pilot with slightly different skills. A jedi pilot will not have the same talent tree at all. It simply wouldnt make any sense. Jedi pilot uses the force to be good at piloting, smuggler and ace use skill and talent. Would you accept a jedi pilot tree that lokked EXACTLY the same as the other two? Hell no. They wouldnt be a "jedi" pilot, theyd be some guy who has the pilot talent tree and probably another spec that gives him the for- o wait i can already make that.

Donovan, you are making the assumption that FFG wants players to be force users right out of the gate. While this is certainly possible, it is not, at this point, guaranteed.

The nature of this game COULD be about reclaiming the legacy of the Jedi (or other force users). Force & Destiny could very well be a game that mimics Luke's journey through THE Trilogy, where you start as the uninitiated force user and grow into being a powerful force user.

There are so many characters in the current setting time period that become Jedi, but don't start that way. Luke Skywalker, Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn, etc. Etc.

Of course Donovan, if you do have some inside info about the game..

Yes you can buy into the Force later in life, but the same could be said about a scoundrel joining the Rebellion later on in his life. That doesn't stop characters from starting the game as rebels.

Again I don't know. I don't agree though that in your example of a Pilot that the Force makes them good at anything they aren't already somewhat good at. Luke was already a good Pilot (flew a T-17? And shot Wamp Rats) learning how to focus with the Force made him a better pilot. The Force enhances and gives insight it doesn't teach you how to pilot a starship.

But you arent playing lukes character. For that idea to work then every chargen in Destiny starts of with picking a tree thats an average joe and then buying into your force powers. Which again, we can already do that. Thats an awful way to make a standalone game. That would mean Destiny would really just be a rehash with some supplemental rules, and i bought enough of that kind of crap from THR and WotC. I have much higher faith in the FFG guys.

FG, you seem to think that the new book will have some nonjedi and and some jedi careers. Why would you want to play a non jedi in a game predominantly about the force? That just doesnt make any sense.