I'm going to limit Strength to 4 on Move. And my players would never try to juggle starships, so I'm not afraid of them abusing it. It just seems so wrongheaded and unlike anything we see in the movies that I'll cap it out of spite.

I'm going to limit Strength to 4 on Move. And my players would never try to juggle starships, so I'm not afraid of them abusing it. It just seems so wrongheaded and unlike anything we see in the movies that I'll cap it out of spite.

Earlier in the thread, someone got a different response than the one I got about the Strength Upgrade.

Sam's answer to me was "yes, you can trigger Strength Upgrades multiple times, even though it doesn't say it can be triggered multiple times."

Sam's later answer to that other person was "nope, you can't trigger Strength Upgrades multiple times, because it doesn't say it can be triggered multiple times."

Personally, I prefer the "can't be triggered multiple times unless the rules text specifically says it can" stance.

The way Lucas has spoken about it, "bringing balance" meant getting rid of the Sith.

Let's be honest, sometimes balance sucks. Qui-Gon should have thought, "Hmm, there are millions of Jedi and no Sith as far as I know, why would I want to balance those numbers?" And Anakin did bring balance. After his death, according to movie cannon there were no Jedi and no Sith (noting that Luke had hardly completed Jedi training by that point). If someone walks into your sauna and starts talking about how they're going to balance the temperature, kick them out -- a sauna is working the way its supposed to when it's really hot.

Personally, I prefer the "can't be triggered multiple times unless the rules text specifically says it can" stance.

Agreed. I'm not very interested in every PC in a game being able to pull Galen Marek shenanigans easily and without real consequence. Perhaps his later opinion represents an evolution of the rules? In any case, it should be addressed in the official FAQ/errata.

I'm also going with the idea that you can't use something multiple times unless it specifically says you can. I think the multiple instances of this outweigh the one odd sentence in the book that says otherwise.

What do people think about using Influence in combat? I hadn't ever really considered it, since we don't see it in the films that I can recall, however I have a player who tries to use it constantly now. It seems fine in most cases, but I'm a film canon guy and I would think we would see Jedi Influencing other jedi to make mistakes in lightsaber combat all the time if it was that easy. Obi-wan was pretty good at influence, but never influenced Dooku to attack Grievous.

Grimmshade, this brings up a problem I have: what happens when force-users use the force on each other? I'm partial to the idea of allowing targets to roll their force rating as an incidental when being attacked with Influence or Move to defend themselves. You see this type of thing in the movies and shows, where someone will try to force push and they force push back and there's a struggle.

I know it's not in the rules, but the force rules feel like an outline to me anyway, like they sketched it out and meant to fill it in later, but didn't.

This "filling in" will almost surely happen in Force & Destiny.

I agree that the Force vs Force is a bit unclear now (which is what's giving me problems with Influence).

Grimmshade, this brings up a problem I have: what happens when force-users use the force on each other? I'm partial to the idea of allowing targets to roll their force rating as an incidental when being attacked with Influence or Move to defend themselves. You see this type of thing in the movies and shows, where someone will try to force push and they force push back and there's a struggle.

I know it's not in the rules, but the force rules feel like an outline to me anyway, like they sketched it out and meant to fill it in later, but didn't.

Another method might be to just say that any Force user with a certain Force Rating (3 or higher perhaps?) automatically gains a rebuke-like ability, but that method is not one I'm fond of.

Grimmshade, this brings up a problem I have: what happens when force-users use the force on each other? I'm partial to the idea of allowing targets to roll their force rating as an incidental when being attacked with Influence or Move to defend themselves. You see this type of thing in the movies and shows, where someone will try to force push and they force push back and there's a struggle.

I know it's not in the rules, but the force rules feel like an outline to me anyway, like they sketched it out and meant to fill it in later, but didn't.

I suspect/hope that such things will be addressed In Force & Destiny. Personally, I think the best means to implement such a defensive trait would be a dedicated Force power that's all about negating enemy Force effects that target you and/or your allies, with an eventual means to redirect the effect back at the enemy Force user much as we saw Yoda do in the films.

That should be a separate and distinct thing from, say, the Anakin/Obi-Wan Force Push struggle.

I suspect/hope that such things will be addressed In Force & Destiny. Personally, I think the best means to implement such a defensive trait would be a dedicated Force power that's all about negating enemy Force effects that target you and/or your allies, with an eventual means to redirect the effect back at the enemy Force user much as we saw Yoda do in the films

Something like roll an opposing force die? Blacks and Whites cancel each other out?

I think rolling 1 Force Die would be a little...un-thematic? I'd be tempted to say "roll opposed Force Rating." But interpreting light and dark pips would be kind of a pain, the downside to using those dice instead of those with more interesting possible results depending on the side rolled.

Maybe a dice pool comprised of Willpower + Force Rating, upgrading normally? No difficulty, but see who has more successes, and the winner's net Advantages are counted as Threat to the loser?

I think rolling 1 Force Die would be a little...un-thematic? I'd be tempted to say "roll opposed Force Rating." But interpreting light and dark pips would be kind of a pain, the downside to using those dice instead of those with more interesting possible results depending on the side rolled.

Maybe a dice pool comprised of Willpower + Force Rating, upgrading normally? No difficulty, but see who has more successes, and the winner's net Advantages are counted as Threat to the loser?

Yeah. Or maybe even rolling a raw discipline check with said results determining the outcome. There's at least a dozen ways I can think of off the top of my head to emulate this.

I just feel like FR should be part of it in those situations. Willpower or Discipline - I just don't see Sith as being particularly invested in Discipline, since it's a bit counterintuitive to their approach to the Force.

This will be the first Beta I will participate in. Were the other Betas only available at Gen Con at first, or can you order online as well? Seems a little annoying to only include such a select group of people.

How long do the Beta feedback durations usually go?

Gen Con got it first in August, then after a while Age of Rebellion's Beta got sent out to stores (I grabbed mine from Miniature Market).

So I still leaning towards the No in the topic of this. However, some of the arguement brought up an interesting thought that seems more in line with what FFG is doing with the Force. Michael Stackpole wrote a novel called I, Jedi about the character of his creation Corran Horn. in it Corran is one of the first students at Luke's academy and when things go in a direction Horn didn't like he quit. (Edit: I did not remember this correctly so I am editing it with a quote from I, Jedi which is Horn's view on the light and dark side.)

Horn: "I've nothing to fear from the dark side."

Skywalker: "You're as good as lost to it, then. You know nothing of its power, its draw. You know nothing of its temptations."

Horn:"No, Master Skywalker, you know nothing of what I have been through in my life. I've been eyeball to eyeball with the dark side more than you will ever know. You stand back and see good and evil on grand and cosmic scale, , but I've been right down there, right at the point where light meets dark. I know that border intimately and while I've toed the terminator line, I've not strayed as much as a micron over it."

Horn also had a rather simple but effective view on lightsaber combat that I think would work well for the FFG system since it uses the fencing method of rings. Outer, Mid, and Inner rings that his lightsaber crosses and that have different strengths and weaknesses depending on the ring. I think it would be useful to narrate a lightsaber combat pretty well.

Example:
What is your Lightsaber wielding character trying to do as he duels the sith? I am trying to get from his outer ring to his mid ring. 3 difficulty as this guy specialized in mid ring combat. You succeed. Now I try to push into his inner so that I can go for a definite killing blow. Specialized and specialized equipment difficulty 4 and a setback die. Failure. Whoa I need to rethink my strategy let me move out from his mid to his outer ring. Still in his specialized range but retreating simply difficulty 3 but still a setback die as he doesn't want you out of his special range.

And so on and so forth.

Thoughts? Or should this be it's own special thread when the FaD beta book gets here?

Edit: Dang it Donovan now that I DON'T listen to the Order 66 podcast I feel like the biggest dummy for arguing Force powers with YOU of all people. I shall now sing the song of my people for you.

<Hangs his head> D'OH!

Thank you