Can anyone point to a reference where the developers have clearly stated that the games will either be balanced against each other or just be compatible rules-wise? There's a lot of he-said-she-said about the developers intent coming from both sides, and I'm not clear what their plan really is.

The intro movie talks about mix and matching from all 3 books, combining as you like at whatever point you like, so I guess that means they're supposed to play nice with each other.

Can anyone point to a reference where the developers have clearly stated that the games will either be balanced against each other or just be compatible rules-wise? There's a lot of he-said-she-said about the developers intent coming from both sides, and I'm not clear what their plan really is.

Keep in mind, even if there is a force sensitive character right out of the gate, they will have FR 1. At most they might have one force power, given what else we know about current character creation. The difference is only that force. Characters will spend Xp on related force powers and not on skills or stats.

It's entirely possible that they just come out and say that in order to acheive the "force user out of the gate" feel that many want, just start characters with 50 (chosen at random) extra XP to be spent on specializations, talents, and powers. If you're playing in a mixed group, then everyone get's the extra in order to keep everyone balanced.

That's the easiest way to keep the balance but also allow people to start with powers and such IMO.

Can anyone point to a reference where the developers have clearly stated that the games will either be balanced against each other or just be compatible rules-wise? There's a lot of he-said-she-said about the developers intent coming from both sides, and I'm not clear what their plan really is.

Compatibility is built into the system, and Andrew Fischer on Order 66 has specifically said as much that the games will be directly compatible. Dan Clark has promised the same. Age of Rebellion has held up to that promise and the same promise is made for F&D.

Yes, but directly compatible is not necessarily balanced. I'm wondering if that has ever been a stated intent.

Balanced in what way? I don't get the use of the term necessarily. If this was a MMO with PVP being considered across class lines I get it, in a RPG I don't.

It's entirely possible that they just come out and say that in order to acheive the "force user out of the gate" feel that many want, just start characters with 50 (chosen at random) extra XP to be spent on specializations, talents, and powers. If you're playing in a mixed group, then everyone get's the extra in order to keep everyone balanced.

That's the easiest way to keep the balance but also allow people to start with powers and such IMO.

I don't like this. If F&D characters start with FR1 then that's already at least a 20XP advantage over Force users from the other core books.

True, but force sensitivity isn't the focus of the first two books. It may be balanced off in different ways. I have high confidence in Ithe compatibility and balance concerns. We will get our first glimpse by gencon.

Also force sensitive trees don't have attached career skills. They are purchased in the tree itself. This may be the balance point used in whatever talent trees are in force and destiny.

Balanced in what way? I don't get the use of the term necessarily. If this was a MMO with PVP being considered across class lines I get it, in a RPG I don't.

Balanced as in having a party with a Bounty Hunter/Assassin, a Commander/Commodore, and a (hypothetical) Jedi/Guardian who all have roughly equivalent capabilities in their focus at equivalent XP amounts.

Maybe a better comparison would be a Hired Gun/Marauder, a Soldier/Sharpshooter and a Jedi/Guardian since the former two are heavy combat careers and the 3rd presumably would be as well, since that's the standard fluff role of the Jedi Guardian.

So balanced as in, the Jedi would not clearly overshadow the other two at combat, at equal XP. Obviously the Jedi might have other tricks (delving into Influence instead of buying Spec Talents, for example) which might make the Jedi less straight-up powerful in a fight than Marauder or Sharpshooter, but more versatile out of combat with Influence.

I doubt Jedi will be anymore crazier in damage output than a BH Gadgeteer with a Jury Rigged HBR, 5 skill, 6 Ag, Superior, Laser sight, barrel attachment modded gun is.......

Or the flip side, if they're more versatile on a basic level than everyone else at equal XP - the fundamental issue with Dark Heresy psykers all over again. Also a potential concern.

So lets go with some canon here just for flavor lol. Obi-wan stated in Episode IV "The Jedi are all but extinct." So based on that statement he was going off the assumption that he and Yoda were the only survivors. Second, will someone please tell me where the Jedi code is actually stated or recited in any of the movies. Anakin, Obi-wan, Yoda, Mace, Ki, and Palpatine all make observations of what 'is' a Jedi in the movies and some of these reflect the code but that is about it. Now as for post-Order 66 most of the Jedi were killed. Palpatine colored the Jedi as a rebellion trying to overthrow the Republic in a coup. Now as far as our understanding of things history is usually written by the victors. So the Jedi would of been classified as criminals and outlaws so even if a lot survived the Order 66 mess most would probably be caught or killed as time progressed. So how would anyone be able to start out as a Jedi? With the exception of some EU characters nothing is written to reflect this. That is as far as movie canon is concerned from my point of view. As for how they will handle it I suggest such discussions be moved over to the thread I started specifically about Force and Destiny. Let's move back to the topic.

So how about that enhance power? Does it seem broken or perhaps not powerful enough as you can technically screw it up.

I don't think of Enhance as broken or OP at all.

I feel like enhance scales in very appropriate and narrow ways - yes, I consider boosting a Characteristic by 1 to be narrow at the point where that is possible.

If we go by the perceived movie "canon" then no one can play Jedi. So let's forget about "canon". Canon is what ever you want in your game. What FFG is most likely to do is give you the tools to play various forms of Force-users whether they be Jedi or late-coming Jedi or Force Adepts or whatever. This will, in all likelihood, include Force careers, such as Jedi of some form, as well as other options (they may even include the previous FSEx and FSEm unispecs or even new ones). I'm sure they want a book that can be used by people to fulfill their Jedi and Force needs.

I remember reading that Force-users may have their Force abilities and powers, but they may not always be the answer. Or some of the fun may come from using Force abilities in new and interesting ways. Sure someone may be able to drop a ship on someone at some point, but how often is that going to come up? Not to mention damage potential. it has been shown that many characters can realize large damage output if they put their mind to it. Sense doesn't allow you to root around in someone's mind. Many times you'll read a stormtrooper sentry's mind only find out he's thinking of lunch. So far I haven't seen anything that makes me think the abilities are out of whack or anything.

In the end I am looking forward to seeing the book and doubt I'll be disappointed as everything I've seen so far has been awesome.

+1 action per round sounds pretty broken especially compared to +1 maneuver.

True, but consider that Dangerous Covenants has a talent that allows a player to mop the floor with all minions and up to a couple Rivals. For combat-heavy careers, I see a Signature Ability that gives an extra action for a handful of rounds to be a fair bit more tame.

So how about that enhance power? Does it seem broken or perhaps not powerful enough as you can technically screw it up.

Egh. It's sort of like all force powers introduced for AoR/EotE. The general intent is that all these powers can give force users a chance to be as powerful, if not more powerful, than somebody who just sticks to a single career, in addition to giving them some narrative boosts - but of course, the catch is that most of these require lucky rolls on Force dice, or much larger amounts of experience being dumped into increasing your Force Rating to actually hit these levels. Sense augments combat abilities and perception abilities to sense people, Foresee helps with Cool/Vigilance - and gives something akin to Field Commander, Influence with social checks, and Enhance is essentially everything else. But of course, if you're already great at something, and you take something that's supposed to increase it if you're not good at it, you can potentially become overly powerful.

Enhance in particular, if we're talking in terms of combat, the ability to commit a force die to Brawn/Agility is essentially just upgrading your dice pool once; and just using the base ability for increasing a Brawl roll probably makes up slightly for the fact a player isn't using a stronger weapon/skill like Melee with a Vibroaxe. Force dice would better be spent on committing to Sense, and XP could better be spent on getting True Aim ranks. Really, if somebody is trying to min-max, the Force in general and especially Enhance isn't the easiest/most efficient way to do it.

It's entirely possible that they just come out and say that in order to acheive the "force user out of the gate" feel that many want, just start characters with 50 (chosen at random) extra XP to be spent on specializations, talents, and powers. If you're playing in a mixed group, then everyone get's the extra in order to keep everyone balanced.

That's the easiest way to keep the balance but also allow people to start with powers and such IMO.

I don't like this. If F&D characters start with FR1 then that's already at least a 20XP advantage over Force users from the other core books.

Not really, anymore than someone with Ranged [Light] as a career skill has an advantage over the Jedi who has to buy another spec to get that.

That 20xp is spent by someone who didn't choose a career that focuses on the Force. They received other benefits. They are a Pilot or Mechanic. Being Force Sensitive is an "also" for them.

+1 action per round sounds pretty broken especially compared to +1 maneuver.

True, but consider that Dangerous Covenants has a talent that allows a player to mop the floor with all minions and up to a couple Rivals. For combat-heavy careers, I see a Signature Ability that gives an extra action for a handful of rounds to be a fair bit more tame.

I just don't see these as comparable..

Let's face it, insta-killing a bunch of mooks basically just saves time in what is effectively a foregone conclusion barring something extraordinary. Yes, the anti-Rival thing can be powerful, about on the level of bringing down a PC, but that in itself isn't particularly noteworthy, and the limitations on that Special Ability are perfectly reasonable in how often they can be used.

The way I see it, an ability giving +1 Action per se has to be balanced against the possibility of triggering Auto-Fire twice per turn (effectively one person hitting multiple times anyway), which is probably the greatest DPS-equivalent present in the game as it is.

It's entirely possible that they just come out and say that in order to acheive the "force user out of the gate" feel that many want, just start characters with 50 (chosen at random) extra XP to be spent on specializations, talents, and powers. If you're playing in a mixed group, then everyone get's the extra in order to keep everyone balanced.

That's the easiest way to keep the balance but also allow people to start with powers and such IMO.

I don't like this. If F&D characters start with FR1 then that's already at least a 20XP advantage over Force users from the other core books.

Not really, anymore than someone with Ranged [Light] as a career skill has an advantage over the Jedi who has to buy another spec to get that.

That 20xp is spent by someone who didn't choose a career that focuses on the Force. They received other benefits. They are a Pilot or Mechanic. Being Force Sensitive is an "also" for them.

I was supporting the system being balanced as is, and against giving more XP to better fit a developed force user concept.

I'm well aware. My statements were in response to the proposition of giving force-users more XP at character creation for the porposes of developing their force abilities. I oppose on the grounds that they'd already have 20 more XP to dedicate to the force versus a character who has to split their focus.

I was supporting the system being balanced as is, and against giving more XP to better fit a developed force user concept.

The system I was trying to suggest was that you have two options. The first option is that F&D characters start just like EotE and AoR characters. They wouldn't have a free FR1 or any powers unless they use their starting XP for it. The second option is that you let everyone start with extra XP so that the F&D character can have his FR and powers out of the gate but at the same time, everyone else gets to start with a little more as well.

By having those options in the book you give everyone a chance to play the character they want to play.

It's entirely possible that they just come out and say that in order to acheive the "force user out of the gate" feel that many want, just start characters with 50 (chosen at random) extra XP to be spent on specializations, talents, and powers. If you're playing in a mixed group, then everyone get's the extra in order to keep everyone balanced.

That's the easiest way to keep the balance but also allow people to start with powers and such IMO.

I don't like this. If F&D characters start with FR1 then that's already at least a 20XP advantage over Force users from the other core books.

Not really, anymore than someone with Ranged [Light] as a career skill has an advantage over the Jedi who has to buy another spec to get that.

That 20xp is spent by someone who didn't choose a career that focuses on the Force. They received other benefits. They are a Pilot or Mechanic. Being Force Sensitive is an "also" for them.

I'm well aware. My statements were in response to the proposition of giving force-users more XP at character creation for the porposes of developing their force abilities. I oppose on the grounds that they'd already have 20 more XP to dedicate to the force versus a character who has to split their focus.

I was supporting the system being balanced as is, and against giving more XP to better fit a developed force user concept.

How about giving a character who had started in EoE or AoR a refund on the xp if players can start FR1 in F&D? That makes it all even.

I'm not seeing much of an issue right now. Force-users starting with a Force Rating doesn't mean much without the the talents and powers they also need to purchase. Not only that but rolling Force dice isn't always a sure thing unless you are flipping Destiny to counteract the Dark Side pips. Other careers generally have abilities which will always work when activated so do not have to contend with this issue. Add this to the fact that they must split their XP amongst another ability that other non-Force characters do not and I think that it will take some time for Force characters to become truly effective.

I'm not convinced Jedi will start out at a higher power level than any other character I think the developers will likely balance the systems nicely to work evenly among all three systems.

For those insisting that Jedi should be the end all be all for a power scale of things explain to me how an entire army of them got wiped out by one Sith that Obi Wan had already spanked once on Mustafaar and as others have noted a buncha clone warrior mooks.

upcoming Rebels cartoon as well as a number of EU sources have already confirmed that some Jedi survived the purge. I don't think people should take anything either Yoda or Obi Wan says in the movies quite so literally since they have a habit of telling truths from a different perspective, ie flat out falsehoods hello Luke your father is dead Vader killed him anyone?

The same EU material that provides us with examples of Jedi surviving during the Original Trilogy also points to Dark Jedi, Inquisitors and Emperor's Hands, if you so easily accept the later its not such a stretch to accept the former.

Ultimately the min maxing of multiple specializations both Force related and not is what is likely to make characters overpowered, much more than the Force skills.

It's entirely possible that they just come out and say that in order to acheive the "force user out of the gate" feel that many want, just start characters with 50 (chosen at random) extra XP to be spent on specializations, talents, and powers. If you're playing in a mixed group, then everyone get's the extra in order to keep everyone balanced.

That's the easiest way to keep the balance but also allow people to start with powers and such IMO.

I don't like this. If F&D characters start with FR1 then that's already at least a 20XP advantage over Force users from the other core books.

Not really, anymore than someone with Ranged [Light] as a career skill has an advantage over the Jedi who has to buy another spec to get that.

That 20xp is spent by someone who didn't choose a career that focuses on the Force. They received other benefits. They are a Pilot or Mechanic. Being Force Sensitive is an "also" for them.

I'm well aware. My statements were in response to the proposition of giving force-users more XP at character creation for the porposes of developing their force abilities. I oppose on the grounds that they'd already have 20 more XP to dedicate to the force versus a character who has to split their focus.

I was supporting the system being balanced as is, and against giving more XP to better fit a developed force user concept.

How about giving a character who had started in EoE or AoR a refund on the xp if players can start FR1 in F&D? That makes it all even.

A refund for what?

You have a Fringer who then takes Force Sensitive Exile. Later, when Force and Destiny comes out, if you remade the character for that game, you would be a Jedi (or whatever) with an out-of-career spec of Fringer (for 30xp).

In the end you would owe 10xp, not including the out-of-career xp difference for skill buys that were once in-career.

I was just making a suggestion for Revanchist7. Give him an idea of how to deal with it at his table.