Here's a question. Does Fantasy Flight provide official 3x3 play mats for Store Championships? What about for Regionals?

I've played in 2 Store Championships and mats were not provided. They had to rely on people bringing their own. I have a feeling that we got lucky that there were enough.

I kind of assumed that FF would provide the stores with "official" mats for Regionals at least because it seems really bad if the store didn't have enough to cover the event and not enough players brought them.

FFG doesn't provide anything but prizes. Stores are on their own for things like mats.

Here's a question. Does Fantasy Flight provide official 3x3 play mats for Store Championships? What about for Regionals?

I've played in 2 Store Championships and mats were not provided. They had to rely on people bringing their own. I have a feeling that we got lucky that there were enough.

I kind of assumed that FF would provide the stores with "official" mats for Regionals at least because it seems really bad if the store didn't have enough to cover the event and not enough players brought them.

Why would FFG provide mats for every store championship? Could you imagine the cost! You don't really need mats, just a clearly defined 3x3 area.

Just read the Original Post. Just had to say, come on. I thought 40K players were bad with plastic toy soldiers. This is plastic toy planes. All I can say is Really? REALLY you didn't win with plastic toy plains and now you have to complain?

I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something. Then again, I reread the post and it just sounds like "I didn't win. WAAAAA I should have won with my plastic toy plane. Damit I deserve it." Maybe the OP is correct, he should have won by the rules stated by FF, but it just came out whiney to me.

Sorry if this came out harsh, but will see if my opinion changes when I read the entire thread now.

*edit* Ok after reading all the posts, I think where the original poster is coming from. Still the op made a quick reply, it for me sounded whiney and tantrum like a bit because you were not Number 1. Problem with the internet these days is quick statements and quick replies.

Remember not everyone knows how things are supposed to be played (me for instance) and take the time to what you actually want to mean.

Just read the Original Post. Just had to say, come on...

The OP's objection is that the tournament was run in a way that was (1) unexpected and (2) not in line with FFG's rules for sanctioned X-wing events. The former is his opinion, but the latter gives him a substantial factual basis.

The post also didn't come across as particularly whiny to me, although of course YMMV. (I used to frequent forums for FPS games on Xbox, so perhaps I have an acquired immunity...?)

I will say that I have issues with swiss style pairing in addition to FFG's tie breaking system. All too often it seems like the top two players meet at the final table (in the case of 16 players and 4 rounds... going into the final round there's only 2 people 3-0... winner takes 1st. But common sense to me seems like the loser should take 2nd. But all too often, one of the folks that was 2-1 ends up 3-1 and either via SoS or modified wins ends up taking 2nd place. And whomever lost at the "final table" comes in 3rd or 4th or something like that.

It's "common sense" except when many of the players who end up at 3-1 lost to the guy who went 4-0. Who's to say the very first opponent he faced isn't the second best player although he could get screwed in a swiss SoS tie break by getting thrown into the "losers bracket" early.

I don't consider people "top people" if they get eliminated early. If they have a bad game or make a minor mistake and the opponent is able to capitalize on that and win then they deserve the win. That's the pressure of being the best, you got a target on your back and can't make any mistakes or have chinks in the armor.

A top play can suffer an early setback but should still have a chance to climb back to the top. As was mentioned the guy who gets the unfortunate pairing against "the best player at the tournament" in the first round could still be the second best player in the tournament.

Seeing some of the ideas posted here I've certainly warmed up to the "point differential" idea. In a lot of ways it would even do away with the idea of modified win. Once the battle is over each player would get + X points for winning and - X points for losing where X is the difference in points lost. Close games mean few points awarded either way while blow outs could stick with you. If you lost a game killing 12 points while losing 100 you'd be starting in a -88 point hole when it comes to any tie breakers; it would take some good, solid wins to pull you out of that but if you're playing a glass cannon squad it could happen.

Just read the Original Post. Just had to say, come on. I thought 40K players were bad with plastic toy soldiers. This is plastic toy planes. All I can say is Really? REALLY you didn't win with plastic toy plains and now you have to complain?

I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something. Then again, I reread the post and it just sounds like "I didn't win. WAAAAA I should have won with my plastic toy plane. Damit I deserve it." Maybe the OP is correct, he should have won by the rules stated by FF, but it just came out whiney to me.

Sorry if this came out harsh, but will see if my opinion changes when I read the entire thread now.

*edit* Ok after reading all the posts, I think where the original poster is coming from. Still the op made a quick reply, it for me sounded whiney and tantrum like a bit because you were not Number 1. Problem with the internet these days is quick statements and quick replies.

Remember not everyone knows how things are supposed to be played (me for instance) and take the time to what you actually want to mean.

Dude, you sound more like what you are accusing the OP of. Also, I can tell you were very quick to reply, and even when you reread the thread and edited your post, you really didn't proofread your post nor offered a real defense to your quick reply.

my touarnement ( local store ) was runned smoothly without problems. we had one that had 2 of the new aces in his 4 interceptor build and all agreed that he can use em. it was 100% agreement from the other 7 players of the total 8.

we ran 3 randomized enemy rounds the swiss rules and it was good made all had fun and i got first placed ^^

the results were

Win = 5

Modified win = 3

Lose = 0

and then with points lost during the 3 battles and points destroyed and other blablah i didnt care but yeah the fun was seen on all of the players and we cant wait for the next one !!

we used 3x3 4 thin wood fields for our playground it was blank no black no stars but no one cared either ^^

Just throwing in my two cents. Having run dozens of tournaments for this game at this point since it hit the scene, FFG's tournament rules are excellent. Exactly laid out how they should be to be as fair as possible to those participating in the tournaments. I know whenever I have gotten bumped out of top finishing places due to tie breakers, which has happened a lot, then I have picked myself up and worked on figuring out how to win out next time while being happy for those that did make it. Maybe I'm in the minority on that one.

That being said if a TO is running a store championship and is not using FFG's rules that came in the box for crying out loud then you NEED TO REPORT THEM TO FFG. It's really important that the integrity of this game is maintained and that people stop traveling to other stores and being taken advantage of.

That being said if a TO is running a store championship and is not using FFG's rules that came in the box for crying out loud then you NEED TO REPORT THEM TO FFG. It's really important that the integrity of this game is maintained and that people stop traveling to other stores and being taken advantage of.

FFG will not do anything.

While the player base feels FFG should have a vested interest in the integrity of their events, they do not express that same interest.

Store Champion certificates aren't number or tracked in anyway, they've been sold on Ebay as a result. The Store Champion results/attendance aren't even reported back to FFG.

A store that muffed up a Regional last year for the SWLCG, enough multiple players emailed FFG about how poorly it was run, not only still got an SC but one of 15 Regionals this year as well.

Reporting stores to FFG will do nothing as they do not take any steps to ensure the integrity of their events.

New to the game and haven't been in a tourney yet. But wouldn't the best tiebreaker be:

(Pts killed) - (Pts lost)

In what way does it make it weaker? Really at the end of the day it's about who wins. Again in my opinion it should be the guy who didn't lose a single match. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and so on don't really matter at the end of the day. I know that last sentence kind of sounds conceited and jerkish but I don't mean it as such. "Stronger" people getting eliminated early doesn't make it weaker in my opinion. They got eliminated because the person across from them was either a better player, or made less mistakes.

If in round 1 the best player got matched up against a scrub, and the second and third best players went against each other, the path to victory is easier because either the second or third player is eliminated in round 1, without the best player having to face them. Swiss is much better if you want a true test of the best players, as the field isn't cleared of stronger players early by bad matchups or poor dice rolls. In Swiss those players are still in the field, can recover after a bad round and potentially still face off against the other good players, making the road to the title harder.

I prefer points earned versus SOS as a tiebreaker, but I still ran with SOS for our store's championship (Great Escape Games of Sacramento). I did make a couple departures from the tournament rules: a) I told players to each supply 3 asteroids (technically that's not correct, but I don't think it makes a big difference) and b) we didn't go with the suggested single elimination after 4 rounds of Swiss (I don't like elimination unless absolutely necessary, and we had our winner after 4 rounds, as only one player had 4 wins). I think I would not have a problem with the TO using points scored or point variance instead of SOS if I were able to play in a store championship.

In what way does it make it weaker? Really at the end of the day it's about who wins. Again in my opinion it should be the guy who didn't lose a single match. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and so on don't really matter at the end of the day. I know that last sentence kind of sounds conceited and jerkish but I don't mean it as such. "Stronger" people getting eliminated early doesn't make it weaker in my opinion. They got eliminated because the person across from them was either a better player, or made less mistakes.

There is a reason why professional sports have regular seasons where they play the same opponent more then once.

In a game like this, we don't have the luxury of a regular season where proper seeding can be done. That is why single elimination doesn't work.

What if on 1 side you have all the strongest players knocking each other out and the other side a bunch of beginners trying not to suck the most? You can end up with a completely lopsided championship.

Just had one of my friends participate in a tournament where they only handed out 1 range ruler, and 2/3rd got the boxes...Seriously wtf

I could see them updating the scoring, they did it for SWLCG once they saw how skewed the results were becoming. I've actually warmed up to the idea of:

4pt win

3pt mod win

2pt draw

1pt mod loss

0pt loss

That way every game has 4 points up for grabs, and you're playing for how those 4 points are distributed.

They also need to do something about their tie breakers. Not only does their tiebreaker not go deep enough, it isn't based on player performance. I can't help it if in the first round I'm matched up against the worst player at the tourney. I had a swift victory and got my 4 points (according to my system)... but then ended up tied with someone who got a decent player at the beginning, and had a stronger SoS. I have no control over how that works. Plus, it severely handicaps the player that loses to someone undefeated in the first round and then won the following 3 games, vs someone who won 3 games and then lost to the same undefeated person in the 4th round. I've done the math on the SoS, and ignoring modified wins, the person that lost in the 4th round has a variance of 6 games on his SoS... the guy that lost in the 1st has 10 variance, and is down by 3 on SoS to begin with.

So if you split the variance, the guy that loses in the first round loses SoS by 1 game. If we give each game a 50% win ratio, that means that the person that lost in the final round to the same person that lost in the first will win the tie breaker only 22.7% of the time. Meanwhile the guy that lost in the final round will win the tie breaker 59.8% of the time. They will tie 17.4%... And that 17% of the time, there is no further tiebreaker to determine who wins.

I MUST remember to lose my first game, rather than my last…

:-)

Just wrote to FFG about the issues with store championships. I threw them the option of having people register as sanctioned FFG tournament organizers. This way all tournaments will be run to FFG standards and add involvement within the FFG community.

I know myself along with others would be happy to host a proper event, giving FFG a authentic feel outside of nationals and add to the player/business relations.

Just wrote to FFG about the issues with store championships. I threw them the option of having people register as sanctioned FFG tournament organizers. This way all tournaments will be run to FFG standards and add involvement within the FFG community.

I know myself along with others would be happy to host a proper event, giving FFG a authentic feel outside of nationals and add to the player/business relations.

That sort of tier system, with sanctioned tournaments, is a great idea! When something goes weird at a not-so-f lgs FFG just isn't in a position to enforce much. Stores live and die by Magic, so I imagine they'd have to follow the rules, but if you don't sell a tournament kit to someplace, all you've got is fewer people playing X-wing.

my touarnement ( local store ) was runned smoothly without problems. we had one that had 2 of the new aces in his 4 interceptor build and all agreed that he can use em. it was 100% agreement from the other 7 players of the total 8.

First, was this just a store tourney or store championship? I would be fine with the vote on a store tourney, but per the rules as they are right now, Aces (cards) should not be in the champs. I would think the ships themselves could be flown in store champs as they would be a repaint.

There is a reason why professional sports have regular seasons where they play the same opponent more then once.

In a game like this, we don't have the luxury of a regular season where proper seeding can be done. That is why single elimination doesn't work.

What if on 1 side you have all the strongest players knocking each other out and the other side a bunch of beginners trying not to suck the most? You can end up with a completely lopsided championship.

Why, we could have a regular season if we wanted to :-)

Seriously...

With Championship games at the end of Season

That being said if a TO is running a store championship and is not using FFG's rules that came in the box for crying out loud then you NEED TO REPORT THEM TO FFG. It's really important that the integrity of this game is maintained and that people stop traveling to other stores and being taken advantage of.

FFG will not do anything.

While the player base feels FFG should have a vested interest in the integrity of their events, they do not express that same interest.

Store Champion certificates aren't number or tracked in anyway, they've been sold on Ebay as a result. The Store Champion results/attendance aren't even reported back to FFG.

A store that muffed up a Regional last year for the SWLCG, enough multiple players emailed FFG about how poorly it was run, not only still got an SC but one of 15 Regionals this year as well.

Reporting stores to FFG will do nothing as they do not take any steps to ensure the integrity of their events.

Emphasis mine. Just to let you know, I have firsthand knowledge of stores that are no longer allowed to run official FFG events due to shenanigans on their part. FFG has demonstrated to me a sincere desire to make X-Wing an enjoyable experience for everyone, and has done so in many ways. From their amazing customer service (look at all the threads on replacement dials/etc.), to their willingness to listen to their players, to their willingness to create and support a positive competitive environment, to the little things like a clean and well maintained play area at their HQ with reasonably priced and excellent food available.

While every game company ultimately exists to make money, some companies like FFG have a philosophy of making their customers happy and providing the best possible experience first, with the belief that profit will follow organically. Other companies, like a certain very large miniature gaming company whose name I won't mention, have a fundamental disconnect between the game designers / developers who try to create great games, and a predatory corporate culture that believes profits come first.

You can identify the heart of a company in the little details, and everything I have seen from FFG leads me to believe they have their priorities straight. If I come across as a fanboy, it's because I am. I have become one because FFG has earned my high opinion. JMO, YMMV.

For years stores have been substituting store stock and putting the valuable prizes on ebay. It was really bad in Magic at one time, but i think its been cracked down on.

It's the way things go. Prize pack has 5 of something, 1st place gets 1 and store gets 4.

Win or Lose, the focus of a game like this should be having fun never forget that.

From their amazing customer service (look at all the threads on replacement dials/etc.), to their willingness to listen to their players, to their willingness to create and support a positive competitive environment , to the little things like a clean and well maintained play area at their HQ with reasonably priced and excellent food available.

I'm not disputing any of the bolded items, but their superb replacement program really doesn't have much to do with their Organized Play efforts anyway.

I have firsthand knowledge of stores that are no longer allowed to run official FFG events due to shenanigans on their part.

I clearly can't dispute your first hand knowledge, so while there may be some stores that have been blacklisted, others that are known for running poorly organized events that ignore tournament or game rules are not only allowed to keep running SC level events but one was awarded one of 15 Regionals. This venue also only had one local player show up to their SC, so it is not as if FFG must bow to this venue in order to satisfy are large player base in the area. So in recent experience FFG has shown they don't do much in the way of vetting venues to run their events.

While every game company ultimately exists to make money, some companies like FFG have a philosophy of making their customers happy and providing the best possible experience first, with the belief that profit will follow organically. Other companies, like a certain very large miniature gaming company whose name I won't mention, have a fundamental disconnect between the game designers / developers who try to create great games, and a predatory corporate culture that believes profits come first.

Again, this is not really relevant to Organized Play discussions. No one disputes that FFG does not create great games their issues lie in the actual production (look at the delays both X-wing and SWLCG have had in their first year), communication (at least X-wing gets the pre-release events as an apology for the delays), and Organized Play structure.

Only one part of your post addresses anything on the Organized Play subject being talked about.

FFG when they originally released this years OP structure talked about how important running a successful Store Championship was to being selected to run a Regional event. They describe it as the "key" to the selection process.

Yet FFG includes no provision in the tournament kits to actually report results back to FFG. They don't even wait for the SC season to end before announcing Regional venues. How can you call that anything but unorganized Organized Play?

I don't see how a store can be blacklisted from running tournaments. Did you know stores can order the kits though distributors, and don't even have to talk to FFG?

How Do I Order?

Preorder your Game Night Kits and Tournament Kits through your distributor or directly through our B2B store .

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4589#order

FFG will not go though the hassle of telling every distributor who to sell and not to sell to. And I'll put money down that some distributors would ignore that and sell them anyway.

Just read the Original Post. Just had to say, come on. I thought 40K players were bad with plastic toy soldiers. This is plastic toy planes. All I can say is Really? REALLY you didn't win with plastic toy plains and now you have to complain?

I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something. Then again, I reread the post and it just sounds like "I didn't win. WAAAAA I should have won with my plastic toy plane. Damit I deserve it." Maybe the OP is correct, he should have won by the rules stated by FF, but it just came out whiney to me.

Sorry if this came out harsh, but will see if my opinion changes when I read the entire thread now.

*edit* Ok after reading all the posts, I think where the original poster is coming from. Still the op made a quick reply, it for me sounded whiney and tantrum like a bit because you were not Number 1. Problem with the internet these days is quick statements and quick replies.

Remember not everyone knows how things are supposed to be played (me for instance) and take the time to what you actually want to mean.

Dude, you sound more like what you are accusing the OP of. Also, I can tell you were very quick to reply, and even when you reread the thread and edited your post, you really didn't proofread your post nor offered a real defense to your quick reply.

You know maybe it did come across a little whiney but I was trying to give examples. None if the tournaments had I come in first so I wasn't complaining about that. I was complaining about the structure of the event. I have made top 4 in all the tournaments I have played in so I'm more into if the event has been run correctly than"winning". I go to the events for an usual tournament experience, and to help build my tournament play style; Since these games should be run like an Ffg event.