The rules are finally here, and they explain the movement, it's the whole die movement, not a part of. I don't know about you, but i'm going to use the fight or flight rule, you must go forward or run away. The lord of darkness is cool, but he's and amazing 12 strenght or craft! better level up.

For the Lord of Darkness, allowing the choice between Str and Craft sorta makes sense. Would've preferred Cerberus and Lord of the Pit to attack against the character's lower stat (as the Chinise Dragon did back in the day).

As to Treasure, choosing, hmmm. Probably go with Random on this one.

grim_reaper_zig said:

Rules don't say anything about Objects/Followers that are not applicable in the Dungeon. I won't allow Characters to use Riding Horse, Flying Carpet and even Horse and Cart in the Dungeon. Obviously this will generate problems.

The_Warlock said:

It'll be like Camelot then, "let's not go there, 'tis a silly place" . Seriously, a huge (assuming of course) Bronze Dragon fits in there. Of course, corridors might be narrow and all, with the Dragon having an exit of its own, but still.

Also, before seeing the Dungeon deck, I have feeling you'll find a lot more than 4 Objects if you go all the way to the Treasure Room. What about Mule? Maybe they'll add Porter Follower. No mention of the Reaper, guess no special rules apply to him, he can move to and from Dungeon freely (though I'm sorta initially feeling he should stick to the 3 main regions.

Dam said:

Mule is more reasonable than Horse and Cart and surely will the Dungeon Deck contain many Objects. But Riding Horse and Flying Carpet should be banned without second thougths, IMO.

Reaper is a big hole in Dungeon Rulebook, a small note would have been nice. I guess she should not be allowed in the Dungeon Region, because it's a one way road. "There's been a mistake!" and the Reaper is stuck in the bottom of the Dungeon and needs 15 Turns to come out.

Furthermore, the Lord of Darkness is a tough challenge with a Str/Cft of 12. Not considering the other dangers that might be in the Dungeon Deck, such a final boss makes the Dungeon an improbable way to the Crown. If you can defeat such a boss, you'd better run for the Crown. Just look at what edge is needed to reach the Crown from the Treasure Chamber: 8+! Gotta be Str/Cft 16 or more to have the slightest hope to go there... the normal way to the Crown is easier. The only occasion when you would choose this solution is when you've great stats but cannot find a Talisman. After Dungeon comes out, Inner Region will need a big boost as soon as possible (Alternate Endings?).

As You noticed, they didn't said any single word about Reaper or cards from it &c Like Reaper Expansion would not exist, when Dungeon Expansion is released. That's why Flying Carpet, Riding Horse or Horse and Cart aren't included. In old Dungeon Rules were a way short than this ones and had many clarifications. This time Dungeon is made to be as easy as possible, so we haven't any special Rules for current and future cards; we haven't clarifications about Characters, if they can or cannot use their special abilities.

For me Reaper cannot enter Dungeon. That make sense, when someone is trying to enter to Dungeon, when Reaper is near him or her. Eventually it can move not only clockwise and counterclockwise but also across spaces and choose freely space in Treasure Chamber.

Nemomon said:

This brings a lot of work for Talisman Rules Consultant & FAQ Archmage (=talismanamsilat).

How to put Talisman Expansions together? The answer is going to take some time...

Dam said:

I agree.

I don't like it to pick a treasure card that i need...

It must be random. Pick the treasure card at the top of the deck and be happy with it

Dam said:

I agree

Maybe only a bit weird to see a lone mule in the dungeon, but maybe it is captured by nasty goblins haha

But seriously, it should be allowed as normal ( flying with a carpet within the corridors lol

Nemomon said:

I agree too, that the reaper may not enter the dungeon.

I feel that the reaper must only walk on the main board and not in the 4 regions..

Velhart said:

I agree but again, in Reaper we got Warlock Quests which weren't random. Now we got Treasures which aren't random either. I bet, future Expansions will follow that "rat race" too. Whenever You get something at random, You would want to back to given realm for something better. When You can choose Your reward, weak characters are in bad position from the begining of the game, while stronger characters are more stronger than usual.

Velhart said:

But that has only one weak point. While it's very hard to end game at CoC space from Dungeon, it's still possible. Reaper cannot access Inner Region, only because there is a space with it. But should have a minor chance to stop characters from going to CoC from Dungeon. Unless that's a Goodenough target - it's hard to "capture" CoC space from Dungeon but still that's better way than normal way. But like The_Warlock said, Inner Region should be changed a little and not only by Alternative Endings but whole Inner Region spaces.

Nemomon said:

Well, it's easily to change that rule to random drawing.

I play also random with the warlock quest cards. Otherwise it is to easy and not fun !

I don't understand why FFG are doing this.

Velhart said:

The reason is in your post. "It's easy to change the rule". FFG have chosen to make Talisman player-friendly, with less or no complications and no big fixed challenges (except the new Lord of Darkness).

The decision to make Dungeon movement optional is fine. You like it and I don't, but everyone will be satisfied in the end, 'cause FFG also suggest the "Fight or Flee" option, which I will adopt if I see that bidirectional movement makes life in the Dungeon too easy. It all depends on the Dungeon Cards. Powerful monsters? Nasty Events like old Green Mist and Slaver? We'll see.

The_Warlock said:

I wonder how many people are satisfied with picking a treasure card that you like..

The option about movement is good, because they are third edition and second edition players

I hope also that they are dangerous cards in the dungeondeck

The main board does not contain very dangerous cards, but the reaper has only add some nice cards to it, but not really dangerous to me.

I hope that they will be a update in the future for the main board to add some dangerous adventure cards to the game

Really looking forward to playing this one but a few things struck me as being a bit odd/problematic.

As others have pointed out, there are no rules stating how certain cards should be played in the Dungeon.

The 2nd edition had these clarifications:

"5.3 The Horse, the Warhorse and the Horse and Cart may not be taken into the Dungeon; you must discard these cards when you enter the Dungeon. ( I think a later FAQ clarified that the cards were left on the dungeon doorway)

10.1 The Destruction, Displacement, Metamorph and Divination spells may be used on Dungeon cards.

10.2 The Hex and Barrier spells may be played on Dungeon spaces.

10.3 The Misdirection spell may be played on a player who is in the Dungeon.

10.4 The Teleport spell may not be used by a character who is in the Dungeon.

Otherwise, the Dungeon counts as a Region for the purposes of casting spells.

11. Events in the Dungeon

11.1 The following Events do affect characters in the Dungeon:

Evil Darkness, Halloween, Magic Vortex, Market Day and Taxation.

11.2 The Blizzard does not affect players in the Dungeon"

All of these rules seem to make sense and it seems a bit odd they were left out. I realise they may have bogged down the rules a bit but as they knew they were planning on producing the expansions they could have worded the cards in a way that further clarification would not be needed.

I'm also concerned how easy it is to skip into the Dungeon from the main board thus avoiding a negative card. Whilst this may not have too much impact with just the Dungeon in play, it certainly will make a massive difference when all four realm boards are eventually used.

Just how big will the board be when all four realms are out? Does anyone own a table that big?

I kind of like the end of the 2nd ed Dungeon board. The Dungeon had to be discovered by drawing a doorway adventure card which meant it didn't come into play for a while but it gave anyone a chance to win no matter how far behind they were. I did once win a game in 15 mins, not sure if that is a good thing but it was fun at the time.

Would be nice to see some official word on whether the 2nd ed clarifications still stand and what the reaper is supposed to do. Can he enter the board? What happens if he gets to the end? Would it be a bit rubbish if he skulked around in the Dungeon when all the players were on the main board? Should he be able to teleport out if there are no characters in the Dungeon? etc

Cheers

Geoff

Cidervampire said:

Except point 5.3 and 10.4, all these clarifications can be put in a FAQ but are not really needed, since the paragraph "Special Abilities involving Adventure Cards in the Dungeon" (Page 10) says that "When used within the Dungeon Region, these special abilities and effects apply to cards from the Dungeon deck instead".

Since Dungeon is a separate Region by all means, Events that affects a Region (Blizzard, Siren, Storm) have no effect in the Dungeon, while Events that affect the land (Evil Darkness, Magic Vortex, Market Day) are applicable to Dungeon as well.

Teleport might be used in Dungeon? I guess this could be done; if you want to face the mighty Lord of Darkness immediately (and perhaps be crushed), why shouldn't you try that? In 2nd edition the Treasure Chamber was the winning line, therefore they must stop players from using Teleport.

Cidervampire said:

I also liked that for the same reason. It was an easy way to the Crown if you were lucky, but now it would be ridiculous with Fate. The idea of the Lord of Darkness is good, I only feel that a 8+ victory is too much. A 4+ would have been enough for me, but I believe FFG is planning to gradually upgrade the Inner Region.

The_Warlock said:

Cidervampire said:

Dungeon Doors are included cards for the Adventure deck so you could House-Rule there is no entrance from the Ruins to play the 2nd ed way.

Finger of Death makes an appearance as well by the looks of it. WhoowooHahahaha!!!

Velhart said:

Velhart said:

Well yes, it's easy to change that Rule to House Rules. Talisman already is full of house rules, but hey, obvious things should be written in Rules. Like The_Warlock said, Talisman is user friendly. Known cards are way less dangerous than they were in 2nd Edition. For example Werewolf, Raiders, Transmutate &c. I really doubt, if Green Mist will be like it was in old Dungeon. Knowing FFG, probably it won't destroy Magic Objects.

As for move. It's nice, when we have two possibilities. Old Dungeon players probably will play it like in old good times; new players probably will use clockwise and counterclockwise move. Only one thing, which is funny for me is: "Special Abilities involving Adventure Cards in the Dungeon Region" - good move - I noticed peoples who was wondering, what they will do with that. Now few Characters are much stronger that never was.

grim_reaper_zig said:

Perhaps one or more boards to fit over the Inner Region would be very nice. It's the same trick FFG used for Runebound big box expansions and I don't see any problems doing this with Talisman. Then you might place more challenges (i.e. 6 Challenges, 3 more for each path, so you don't have to put Gnome, Map and Shovel in the box) or give Velhart his beloved Dragon Tower.

Talisman is quickly becoming a big boardgame revival and with FFG excellent support it will surely grow up beyond our imagination.

The_Warlock said:

Nemomon said:

What does the green mist do.

In third edition you must discard a helmed, shield or armour

Velhart said:

2nd edition is "Discard any Armour, Shield or Helmet you're carrying", so every piece of armour.

The_Warlock said:

Then i made a mistake. Third edition says the same.

They can better say: discard all helmets, shields and armours...( this makes more sense to me