I dunno, the Lambda shuttle is 20m long, too. The IG-2000 might go on a large base.

I would think they'd include the IG-2000 (IG-88's ship) in a Shadows of the Empire wave. It probably would have all turn maneuvers at all speeds with no red, since its robotic pilot wouldn't have to worry about blacking out from G-forces.

I assumed stress was the structural stress of heavy manoeuvring on the ship and not on the pilot?

No, I am pretty sure it's all about stressing out the pilot.

It's a fair idea that droids would be immune to that sort of stress. They should also be less creative with their flying, but I have no idea how that might be modeled in this game.

Perhaps with a relatively dull (but stress free!) maneuver dial?

The way I see it, each ship currently has a counterpart (not exactly, but similar) as follows:

TIE fighter & Z-95

X-wing & TIE Advanced

Y-wing & TIE bomber

TIE Interceptor & A-wing

Firespray & YT-1300

B-wing & TIE Defender

Lambda & HWK (I know, completely different ships, but they are both designed as support vessels)

Given such a pattern, there are two ships that have no counterpart: the E-wing (heavy interceptor) and the TIE Phantom (unique ship with a special ability). This leads me to believe that the TIE Avenger will be in the next wave as the E-wing counterpart.

Good post, Revanchist. I typed up almost the exact same thing, but didn't wind up posting it earlier.

I think there is something to us thinking about distinct battlefield roles/capabilities when it comes to these ships. Ultimately, we don't want any duplicates, so to speak.

To follow this line of thought, did the Rebellion ever have a cloaked fighter? The TIE Phantom will be introducing cloaking as a special rule.

Perhaps a Rebel craft of some future wave will benefit from that as well.

To be honest, I would have thought the TIE Defender and E-wing were matched, and the TIE Bomber and B-wing were matched.

In some ways, the TIE Phantom is the Imperial's multi-crew small base ship (a la the HWK). It also shows off the Imperial war machine's technological prowess, at least late into the Galactic Civil War (much like how Germany developed all sorts of "superweapons" toward the end of WWII).

If I were a gambling man I'd put my chips down on:

Wave 5: Rebels cartoon

Wave 6: New movie

So what's the timeframe for this bet, and what's the forfeit? You'll still have one shoe left after the holiday season of 2015…

Ok...I have to comment on this. The old DOS games have been a huge source for X-wing Minatures so far. This has been proven with the HWK and all of wave 4 with the exception of the E-wing. There will be no ships froms shadows of the empire anytime soon, in my opinion, unless they do a themed box set (which I can actually see happening at some point). For wave 5 I anticipate the Assault Gunboat for sure, and then several other ships from TIE FIGHTER and X-wing Alliance. T-wing, R-41, cloakshape, preybird etc etc etc....its a VERY LONG LIST. Honestly I can imagine FFG going so far to offer up an experimental TIE box set (fans of X-wing Alliance you know what I'm talking about). K-wing...doubt it'll happen anytime soon...Viraxo...how would that fit well with the Empire or any other bounty hunter for that matter. Yes boba fett fit well but he is also a well known fan favorite and even casual fans would recognize it. FFG is using a lot of material from the FLIGHT SIM games which personnaly I have been ecstatic about. I grew up playing those and all of wave 4 made me very happy. Just my two cents...

As for the second Rebel ship, I have no idea.

A K-Wing would be interesting, a bomber with no primary weapon (if you follow the Black Fleet Crisis type, which would be best in my opinion, something radically different).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-S8_K-wing_assault_starfighter

Or an R-41 Starchaser.

Yeah, the K-Wing and R-41. Also the T-Wing, which would be an interceptor with proton torpedoes.

What? The T-Wing was a projected A-Wing replacement! If it carried anything it would be missiles... making the overlap with the A-Wing too great to behave like it did in TIE Fighter. Maybe a swift fighter with one more shield point and different pilots?

Not being familiar with K-wings and R-41s, what, thematically, do they bring to the game that is different from other Rebel vessels?

R-41s were better at the interceptor role than the Y-Wings were, and carried twin laser cannons and ion cannons. I could see this becoming another Rebel cannon-carrier with higher agility and higher hull than the B-Wing. Maybe a carrier for torpedoes too.

K-Wings I imagined would be the next big Rebel ship that carries a lot of ordinance. Kind of as if the TIE Bomber was a large ship with shields and flown by rebels. The tradeoff would be its primary attack is pants, and it has poor mobility. But it would give the Rebels bombs and multiple warheads to shoot with.

Fun long prediction time!

Wave 5 — February 2015

YT-2400

R-41 Starchaser

IG-2000

StarViper

Wave 6 — August 2015

Ships from the Rebels cartoon

Wave 7 — February 2016

Ships from Episode 7

Wave 8 — August 2016

More ships from Episode 7

Wave 9 — February 2017

T-Wing

K-Wing

Assault Gunboat

TIE Avenger

Rebel Aces — August 2017

Or some other non-wave filler like Imperial Aces is.

Wave 10 — February 2018

Ships from Episode 8

See, the trick is that a wave about the cartoon or about the movies can't come out before the cartoon and movies debut. Then they'd spoil people on the cartoon and movies. The waves have to be coordinated to come out around the same time or shortly thereafter.

Sorry for the double post.

As for the second Rebel ship, I have no idea.

A K-Wing would be interesting, a bomber with no primary weapon (if you follow the Black Fleet Crisis type, which would be best in my opinion, something radically different).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-S8_K-wing_assault_starfighter

Or an R-41 Starchaser.

Yeah, the K-Wing and R-41. Also the T-Wing, which would be an interceptor with proton torpedoes.

What? The T-Wing was a projected A-Wing replacement! If it carried anything it would be missiles... making the overlap with the A-Wing too great to behave like it did in TIE Fighter. Maybe a swift fighter with one more shield point and different pilots?

It's an interceptor with proton torpedoes: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-Wing

I think we'll get more from the X-Wing games, like Alliance and TIE-Fighter before we move to any future stuff.

The new movies will take place as much in the future as the prequels are in the past, the prequels are not really used either.

Fun long prediction time!

Wave 5 — February 2015

YT-2400

R-41 Starchaser

IG-2000

StarViper

Wave 6 — August 2015

Ships from the Rebels cartoon

Wave 7 — February 2016

Ships from Episode 7

Wave 8 — August 2016

More ships from Episode 7

Wave 9 — February 2017

T-Wing

K-Wing

Assault Gunboat

TIE Avenger

Rebel Aces — August 2017

Or some other non-wave filler like Imperial Aces is.

Wave 10 — February 2018

Ships from Episode 8

See, the trick is that a wave about the cartoon or about the movies can't come out before the cartoon and movies debut. Then they'd spoil people on the cartoon and movies. The waves have to be coordinated to come out around the same time or shortly thereafter.

I think you're being overly optimistic about how much life there is left in this game. As much as I'd like to see it, I doubt FFG will mine that much from the universe, and especially with those timelines.

I can see Shadows, and some Episode 7 stuff, but beyond that, I really doubt a - they'll have the license for the game and b - they'll be able to keep up with the demands of the community in the event that they do have the license without resorting to prequels..

Ok...I have to comment on this. The old DOS games have been a huge source for X-wing Minatures so far.

While I understand what you are saying, keep in mind that exactly one ship released so far (HWK-290) is from a video game. By that logic the two re-painted interceptors in Imperial Aces should make you say "Comics have been a doubly huge source for X-Wing Miniatures so far."

Two more ships in upcoming Wave 4 are originally from video games.

Not sure I agree that video games are a "huge" source of ships... but I agree they are certainly using video games as part of the canon they are willing to draw from. I suppose it makes sense, as comics, books, and games bearing the name "Star Wars" are all considered C-level canon by the Holocron. The only things that take precedence over them would be the Clone Wars and Rebels TV shows and the actual movies themselves.

I don't recall where I read it but I think some developers have stated they'd like to stick close to the Empire Strikes Back time frame.

Not sure if that means anything, long term, but I can definitely see my interest, personally, waning after the big ships come out.

I am just one sample point, but I did not buy the HWK-290 and do not plan to buy the E-wing, as I am not familiar with them.

I think the TIE Defender looks cool a different enough to pick up a pair of them, and I'll likely get a single TIE Phantom. Probably a pair of Z-95s will find their way into my collection, and a YT-2400 would be an auto-buy.

Anything beyond that I will, personally, be very unlikely to purchase.

I gotta think a large group of customers feel somewhat similar.

I really doubt a - they'll have the license for the game

WEG held the license (for RPGs) from 1987 to 1998 or so

WotC picked it up in 2000 and let it go in 2010

FFG picked it up in 2012...

I could see them hanging on through Episodes 7, 8, & 9 for the RPG side of things, at least. They could re-boot the current X-Wing Miniatures game using the cool new stuff from the new trilogy (new core starter set, etc). Making this new game be able to use current stuff would be advisable, I'd think.

But I guess I can't see the same exact game we have now going on until 2022. Like most things we'll have to wait and see...

As a comparison, WotC went through 3 RPG revisions during their tenure. They had two miniature lines, so to speak: the "Star Wars Miniatures Game" going from 2004 to 2010 and the "Starship Battles" stand-alone game released in 2006 (both sold using the collectible card game type randomized booster model).

You doubt that FFG will mine the deepest, darkest corners of the EU? This is the company that made a vehicle that only exists as a toy, into a card for their cardgame. They will dive deep. They will dive dark. You will see ships that you had no idea existed. (If left to their own devices)

I have been looking into the original source materials for what we have seen thus far.

Here's how it breaks down.

Excluding the starter set, I count 19 expansion releases so far (all known releases up through wave 4).

As one would assume the majority of the ships (13 of 19, 68%) have come from the original trilogy.

Of the 6 remaining, one was originally found in a book, three were originally seen in video games, and two (or three, depending on how you count Imperial Aces repaints) came to us from comic books.

Z-95 (Han Solo at Star's End book, plus WEG RPG material, etc)

The HWK-290 (Dark Forces video game), the TIE Defender (TIE Fighter video game) and TIE Phantom (Rebel Assault 2 video game).

Imperial Aces is from the comics, as far as I can see (the 181st and Emperor's Guard squadrons came from Dark Horse Comics; specifically X-Wing Rogue Squadron and Crimson Empire), as is the E-Wing (Dark Empire comics).

So, I assume we will have to see a group of items coming up that hail from that multi-platform release (book, video game, and comics): Shadows of the Empire. In many ways one could claim that Shadows of the Empire has a stronger canon claim than the other non-OT stuff released thus far.

Probably the Outrider and Prince Xizor's ship, at a minimum, would be released, but possibly as much as Black Sun becoming a third faction could be in the works as a method for bringing this property into the game.

I would prefer bounty hunters and Black Sun remain "Imperial" rather than making a third faction, as it keeps the game simpler.

This. I am hoping the do shadows next. IIRC it was the first novel I ever read about the SW universe. I need the Outrider, IG-2000, Hound' s tooth, Punishing One and friends. The only issue I can see is the lack of rebel content.

Imperial Aces is from the comics, as far as I can see (the 181st and Emperor's Guard squadrons came from Dark Horse Comics; specifically X-Wing Rogue Squadron and Crimson Empire), as is the E-Wing (Dark Empire comics).

This page says that the Royal Guard TIE Interceptor comes from Star Wars Galaxies. I don't know if that's just the all red paint job or what, I don't know the details of the ships and their pilots. If it is the origin of that specific paint job, then that's another point in the video games category.

Honestly, I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen anything from Shadows of the Empire yet. I'd still consider anything from that multimedia project to be a good bet for a future release. Ships from Rebels and the new movies are likely, but it'll depend on two things. 1) Whether FFG is forced into cross-promotion. If not, then 2) Whether or not FFG wants to do the ships anyway.

If I were a gambling man I'd put my chips down on:

Wave 5: Rebels cartoon

Wave 6: New movie

So what's the timeframe for this bet, and what's the forfeit? You'll still have one shoe left after the holiday season of 2015…

Notice how I stated "if" in my prediction. lol But my gamble does make logical/marketing sense.

I'll start looking into new shoes just in case though...

Imperial Aces is from the comics, as far as I can see (the 181st and Emperor's Guard squadrons came from Dark Horse Comics; specifically X-Wing Rogue Squadron and Crimson Empire), as is the E-Wing (Dark Empire comics).

This page says that the Royal Guard TIE Interceptor comes from Star Wars Galaxies.

Crimson Empire is from 1997, the video game expansion "Rage of the Wookies" is from 2005.

The comics at least appear to have introduced both Carnor Jax and Kir Kanos...not sure about the coloration of their TIE/IN (or, indeed, if they even flew in such craft).

Someone who read those comics will have to help us out.

Yeah, I don't know a whole lot about the Expanded Universe, don't know a lot of places to go checking, and I definitely don't own those comics. After your post I checked the Crimson Empire page and realized it was older, but I posted anyway because I couldn't find exactly how things were depicted there. The line about Star Wars Galaxies could be from someone who was mistaken, or it could be that the comics had those pilots just flying normal Interceptors at the time. As you said, we're going to need someone who's read them to know for sure. ;P

Reading up on the history of the ships thus far, here they are laid out in chronological order. All dates are given with respect to the Battle of Yavin (the climax of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope).

72 BBY: YT-1300 stock light freighter

60 BBY: Millenium Falcon

32 BBY: Episode I: The Phantom Menace

"before 22 BBY": CR90 Corellian Corvette

"before 22 BBY": Z-95 Headhunter

22 BBY: GR-75 Medium Transport

22 BBY: Episode II: Attack of the Clones

21 BBY: Tantive IV

19 BBY: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

19 BBY: Lambda-class shuttle

19 BBY: TIE/LN

18 BBY: TIE Bomber

18 BBY: Y-wing

1 BBY: X-wing

1 BBY: TIE Interceptor

1 BBY: TIE Advanced x1

0 ABY: Episode IV: A New Hope

0 ABY: B-wing

3 ABY: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

3 ABY: TIE Phantom

4 ABY: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi

4 ABY: A-wing

4 ABY: TIE Defender

5 ABY: New Republic Era

9 ABY: E-wing

To be fair, the historical post shown above tells us a few things.

This game already includes ships from before the Clone Wars, and with the E-wing, will extend into the New Republic Era.

Part of me says: "Go ahead. Put out the prequel ships (some of which were still in use, to some degree, during the Rebellion)."

The Naboo N-1 starfighter is certainly newer than the Millenium Falcon!

The ARC-170 is about the same age as the Rebel Transport.

The various Jedi starfighters are newer yet (I think).

I'd be OK with prequel ships. The movies may have ... had their issues ... but the ships are pretty cool, and I'm all for adding more ships to the game.

I think we're still missing a ship from the movies that's been in our faces the whole time: the Sentinel Class Assault Shuttle.