Here's what I'm probably running for the foreseeable future:
Flown it a few times now, and while I've toyed with minor variations in the small ships, the Buzzsaw + Bounty Gunner that forms the core is solid. I like Backstabber as a wild card option; he's a pain in the butt that you can't afford to ignore, or he gets behind you and starts wrecking backsides.
Thoughts?
(1) I don't agree with most people about how the Buzzsaw works. The Gunner specifies that you make the attack "immediately", which ought to mean it happens before the FCS grants a new target lock. (The FAQ ruling on Vader doesn't work this way, which is irritating, but stops short of outlining a general principle that "immediately" is meaningless.) I probably wouldn't argue about it with you at the table if you built a squad around it--we all try to Fly Casual, after all--but I think it's worth pointing out ahead of time that the rules permit a surprising amount of ambiguity there.
(2) Post-Wave 3, I think Firesprays should always be run with either Recon Specialist or Rebel Captive unless you absolutely can't find a way to afford it. Either choice adds just a crazy amount of staying power.
(2) Post-Wave 3, I think Firesprays should always be run with either Recon Specialist or Rebel Captive unless you absolutely can't find a way to afford it. Either choice adds just a crazy amount of staying power.
I agree with this and i personally prefer the Recon Specialist.
I disagree with Vorpal and Nyt. Gunner is just too good. It almost guarantees hits without costing you an action. Two focuses (that chances are you won't use both of) just isn't as good. Gunner on attack is better than focus on attack. Then you can also use your action on evade, which is better than a focus.
I am not a big fan of bombs on low PS ships. High PS ships they rock, but you can't be sure how to use them with low PS.
It's generally accepted that the term "immediately" is mechanically irrelevant, using the FAQ ruling on the Vader upgrade as precedent that you can trigger effects between Gunner attacks. I don't think FCS/Gunner necessarily needs an explicit entry in the FAQ (especially since Vader and FCS use the exact same wording), though a generalization about Gunner would definitely put this issue to bed.
I've experimented with Recon Specialist and found that Gunner tends to be more effective, mostly because of the action economy it buys you. If you feel like if you need the defense, the Firespray still has Evade, which it can still use in conjunction with Gunner. And if I'm working out the math right, a ship with 2 Agility suffering two attacks will, on average, roll the same number of Evades (2.5, by my count) with 2 Focus tokens (one for each attack) as it will with a single Evade token and a naked defense roll (can anyone else crunch the numbers and back me up on that?).
It's possible that Focus gains an edge on Range 3 defense rolls, but those represent the minority of attacks in most games.
And in general, firepower trumps defense, especially in timed rounds.
As for Rebel Captive, that's something I intend to experiment with once the Rebel Transport is released and stress removal is a much bigger deal. But for the moment, while I don't deny it's a good upgrade, I'd think I'd rather have the Gunner.
@Hrathen: Yeah, I know where you're coming from with regards to the bombs. It definitely takes good predictions to lay them correctly with low PS pilots. But, sometimes just the threat of the bomb is worth 2 points.
I have flown the Shuttle and the Firespray a great deal. In this list, I would keep Gunner on both, you want the damage. I would drop the Seismic and the FCS and add Adv. Sensors to the Shuttle, it actually makes it very maneuverable.
As for number crunching on spending focuses, it's quite a bit more complicated than that, especially as a low PS. Ships will be shooting before you, so if only 1 ship is left shooting, you're capable of using a focus for offense, assuming you didn't spend both of them on defense.
But as for 2 attacks spending a token on each attack, w/ Evade = 1.75 + .75 = 2.5... with Focus x2 = 1.25 + 1.25 = 2.5... So, against 2 attacks and not considering offense, evade is the same. But really, you have to look at the probability of spending said tokens on attack one, and then having them around for attack #2, and subsequent attacks #3 and 4... At that point, the recon spec starts providing a much better defense.
I disagree with Vorpal and Nyt. Gunner is just too good. It almost guarantees hits without costing you an action. Two focuses (that chances are you won't use both of) just isn't as good. Gunner on attack is better than focus on attack. Then you can also use your action on evade, which is better than a focus.
I also like Gunner, but it has two knocks against it. The first is that it's relatively expensive, and the second is that it's an offense booster for a ship that already has fairly effective offense. What my Firesprays typically have trouble with is that they get held down and punched until they die. Recon Specialist gives you more tokens to spend on defense, and the Rebel Captive helps because no one wants to be the first to punch; in my experience, both provide better value for the points than Gunner does.
It's generally accepted that the term "immediately" is mechanically irrelevant, using the FAQ ruling on the Vader upgrade as precedent that you can trigger effects between Gunner attacks. I don't think FCS/Gunner necessarily needs an explicit entry in the FAQ (especially since Vader and FCS use the exact same wording), though a generalization about Gunner would definitely put this issue to bed.
@Englishpete: Hmm, that's an interesting thought. I've flown the shuttle with Adv. Sensors exactly once, and while I liked its maneuverability, I found that I was still mostly using its actions to get the thing aligned/turned around. Is that extra maneuverability worth the loss of free Target Locks? What's been your experience with that?
@Khyros: It's not that complicated at all. If you use one of your Recon Focus tokens on offense, then Evade emerges as the clearly superior defensive option. It's only when you have 2 Focus tokens that it draws even with an Evade token for 2 attacks. Any attacks beyond that are irrelevant, since the averages factor in the expenditure of all tokens in the first two attacks. Yes, it's possible that they may still be around for subsequent attacks given good rolls early on, but such scenarios are irrelevant when calculating averages; from a pure math standpoint, it doesn't matter when you spend the tokens, they still yield the same average Evades.
Define "generally accepted". It seems clear to me that "immediately" has mechanical implications on,for example, Heavy Laser Cannon, Rebel Captive, Squad Leader, and Advanced Sensors; if you rule that it doesn't mean anything, then those cards (at least) all have to have separate FAQ entries that tell you when stuff is supposed to happen. If "immediately" has its commonsense meaning (i.e., "do this right way, before you do anything else"), then it's clear how to resolve all of them.
I will grant you that there's no specific ruling on this matter, and that "generally accepted" is my perception of the community as a whole, and of the TOs in whose events I've had the pleasure of playing. I've not actually heard anyone raise concern about FCS + Gunner since the release of the FAQ with the ruling on the Vader crew card.
But, that's based on my on perceptions, not on official ruling, I will concede that. However, I don't expect any push-back from TOs if I show up at a tourney with Buzzsaw. If the TO has an issue with it, I'll simply do as Englishpete is suggesting and swap out the FCS and Seismic for Adv. Sensors.
As you just pointed out, the real perk of the FCS + Gunner combo is you don't have to worry about using your actions for anything EXCEPT boost. Getting a focus is just icing on the cake. Also, you won't run into instances of losing actions after pulling a Red Maneuver when blocked, simply because you won't care if you lose them. However, I haven't tested out Adv Sensor + Gunner. The maneuvering COULD be totaly worth it, and the ability to pre boost, then move in for a clutch bump has its perks.
The most I've had the Buzzsaw shuttle out of firing arc was for 3 turns. The 4th it came back in to pull the game winning shot
The ability to perform the fabled 135 degree turn is definitely tempting.
Man, I really thought the discussion on this thread would trend towards the points spent on the filler TIEs and the Seismic Charges. It's kinda awesome that it went completely the other way.
I use the Adv Sensors and EU exclusively. It allows me an action when I full stop red, it allows me to boost and then 2 hard and I can boost first then move. I can move better, position better and keep guns on target more often. A TL only helps if you can actually hit the target.
Trust me on this one, I fly a 3 omicron list with sensors, engine upgrade and gunner and it chews up people. They simply under estimate what the ship can do.
Trust me on this one, I fly a 3 omicron list with sensors, engine upgrade and gunner and it chews up people. They simply under estimate what the ship can do.
Too true! I think we're going to see more shuttles this year though. It take patience to play and slow and steady wins the race.