I have been playing around with squad builds using these three pilots. I would not really try to argue that this combination is necessarily "better" than the traditional wedge/luke/biggs builds or that 3-fighter rebel builds are ideal in general, but as a theme build I want to experiment with this combination and try to make it as strong as possible within these constraints

My initial list:

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
R3-A2 (2)

Wedge Antilles (29)
Opportunist (4)

Luke Skywalker (28)
Draw Their Fire (1)
R2-D2 (4)

Total: 100

Opportunist on Wedge could easily be traded out for Push the Limit and an R2 astromech

The idea is basically that they are all high skill pilots. VI pushes Janson up to PS10 so he can strip tokens for Wedge to make a strong followup. Janson with flechette torpedoes and R3-A2 could conceivably strip a focus or evade token from a high value target AND force them to receive two stress tokens in a single attack. Luke is in his traditional mild support and strong endgame setup.

Thoughts? Opinions? Alternative builds?

As you already alluded to, I feel like PTL+R2 is better. At R2-3, TL+F provides Wedge with an average hit roll of 2.81, F+Opp provides 3 hits. At R1, F+TL increases to 3.75 while F+Op increases to 3.75 as well.

So Opportunist never really provides additional hurt over PTL. Plus, it costs an extra point and still gives a stress. And the R2 coupled with PTL allows him to shred stress so much easier. The one advantage I see to opportunist in this list is that Wedge is no longer susceptible to blocking tactics as he is with PTL. But he is now reliant on Janson pulling tokens off of folks in order to shoot.

Honestly, I feel like opportunist is going to be best used on a Green, Black, or Saber. They'll provide the threat of an extra attack die if the opponent spends his/her focus/evade earlier on, making him rethink whether he wants to do that. Wedge will still be shooting before everyone else, so the only way to strip tokens is from Janson.

I ran basically the same list except I dropped the droid and torp off Wes to take PTL, R2 and EU on Wedge. I ran it against a beefed up Fett, Fel with PTL and DC. My friend couldn't roll attack to save himself but I was able to OHKO Fel with a range 1 from Wedge after stripping Fel's extra focus token that would have saved his life. I like elite three pilot builds but I think they have to be both offensive and defensive at the same time and I think the way I ran mine was pretty ideal.

Can it beat a swarm? I'm waiting to try it out and see but I think with some fancy flying you might be able to give them a run for their money at least. I know I prefer using named pilots that I thought were cool as a kid so I might just have to get used to the fact I might not be winning any tournaments but I'll have fun using whom I want.

As for the game I mentioned before, I took all his ships out and still had all three of my rogues. Luke had gotten a little jacked up from Fel before he bit it but R2D2 had fully repaired his shields by game's end. I love R2D2. I think the demoralization he causes is almost worth the price of admission in and of itself.

Looks nasty, as much as 3 ship builds can get. I agree with the above; Opportunist seems better the more ships you have ahead of the shooter to give you options and more chances to strip tokens. Honestly, the basic VI Janson/Wedge combo is killy enough, maybe your upgrades should be more defensive-oriented, given this a three-ship build (Expert Handling, Engine Upgrade, etc.)..

Thoughts? Opinions? Alternative builds?

I would drop either R3-A2 or the Flechettes, and use the points to give Wedge an R2 Astromech to help clean up the stress.

People are really wanting opportunist to work including myself but I have come to the conclusion that its crap. Way to much set up for an extra shot. Better to spend the points elsewhere.

People are really wanting opportunist to work including myself but I have come to the conclusion that its crap. Way to much set up for an extra shot. Better to spend the points elsewhere.

People use PTL to pick up Target Lock + Focus all the time; Opportunist is, on average, even more effective as an offensive boost. And it often doesn't require any setup at all--think of every time you've shot at a ship that used Target Lock or Barrel Roll on its turn and doesn't have a focus to spend on defense.

I'd really recommend putting it on the table once or twice before you dismiss it completely.

People are really wanting opportunist to work including myself but I have come to the conclusion that its crap. Way to much set up for an extra shot. Better to spend the points elsewhere.

People use PTL to pick up Target Lock + Focus all the time; Opportunist is, on average, even more effective as an offensive boost. And it often doesn't require any setup at all--think of every time you've shot at a ship that used Target Lock or Barrel Roll on its turn and doesn't have a focus to spend on defense.

I'd really recommend putting it on the table once or twice before you dismiss it completely.

Or just take PTL for 1 point less, and pick up TL+F for pretty much the same average damage (no, it doesn't have the same maximum damage, but we as a community have already established that max damage doesn't outweigh average damage, otherwise people would like expose) and then regardless of what your opponent does, you can make use of TL+F.

The only reason that opp can be better is if you play psychological games with your opponent and he doesn't spend his token due to the fact that you have opportunist on the board.

Or just take PTL for 1 point less, and pick up TL+F for pretty much the same average damage

Right now we are talking about X-Wings. PTL gives them 3+F+TL (three dice plus focus plus target lock) while opportunist results in 4+F (four dice plus focus). Since opportunist can be used the target has no tokens.

Expected damage (ignoring crits) at range 2 or 3:

against 1 defense die

PTL 3+F+TL 2.25

opportunist 4+F 2.63

against 2 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 1.88

opportunist 4+F 2.26

against 3 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 1.53

opportunist 4+F 1.91

against 4 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 1.22

opportunist 4+F 1.58

against 5 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 0.95

opportunist 4+F 1.29

range 1

against 1 defense die

PTL 4+F+TL 3.13

opportunist 5+F 3.38

against 2 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 2.75

opportunist 5+F 3.00

against 3 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 2.38

opportunist 5+F 2.64

against 4 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 2.02

opportunist 5+F 2.28

against 5 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 1.69

opportunist 5+F 1.95

Opportunist results in more damage. I would not call the difference marginal. It does cost one additional point, though. And it requires the target to have no tokens. PTL works against tokens.

Note:

When using five basic attack dice, i.e. PTL 5+F+TL and opportunist 6+F, PTL delivers more damage than opportunist against 1-4 defense dice. Against 5+ defense dice opportunist is still better.

Or just take PTL for 1 point less, and pick up TL+F for pretty much the same average damage

Right now we are talking about X-Wings. PTL gives them 3+F+TL (three dice plus focus plus target lock) while opportunist results in 4+F (four dice plus focus). Since opportunist can be used the target has no tokens.

Expected damage (ignoring crits) at range 2 or 3:

against 1 defense die

PTL 3+F+TL 2.44

opportunist 4+F 2.63

against 2 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 2.06

opportunist 4+F 2.26

against 3 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 1.70

opportunist 4+F 1.91

against 4 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 1.36

opportunist 4+F 1.58

against 5 defense dice

PTL 3+F+TL 1.07

opportunist 4+F 1.29

range 1

against 1 defense die

PTL 4+F+TL 3.38

opportunist 5+F 3.38

against 2 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 3.00

opportunist 5+F 3.00

against 3 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 2.64

opportunist 5+F 2.64

against 4 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 2.26

opportunist 5+F 2.28

against 5 defense dice

PTL 4+F+TL 1.90

opportunist 5+F 1.95

Opportunist results in more damage. I would not call the difference marginal. It does cost one additional point, though. And it requires the target to have no tokens. PTL works against tokens.

Note:

When using five basic attack dice, i.e. PTL 5+F+TL and opportunist 6+F, PTL delivers more damage than opportunist against 1-4 defense dice. Against 5+ defense dice opportunist is still better.

I fixed your numbers. And Opportunist does do ~10% more damage at R2-3 than PTL... assuming your opponent doesn't have a token. Where as PTL can always do that damage. Plus, on ships with more than 2 actions, PTL allows you to be more versatile in what actions you take. But Opportunist can stack with F+TL, and be used on secondary weapons, something PTL can't help.

(Partially ninja'ed, but will post anyway… sorry for the duplication.)

Or just take PTL for 1 point less, and pick up TL+F for pretty much the same average damage (no, it doesn't have the same maximum damage, but we as a community have already established that max damage doesn't outweigh average damage, otherwise people would like expose) and then regardless of what your opponent does, you can make use of TL+F.

The only reason that opp can be better is if you play psychological games with your opponent and he doesn't spend his token due to the fact that you have opportunist on the board.

The problem with Expose is that it requires an action, and (unless you have a second action) is accordingly worse by 0.25 hits per attack roll. But the average number of hits rolled with Opportunist is better than the average with focus+TL--by 0.19 hits, or about the same margin.

You still have to use Opportunist almost as often as PTL in order to break even, of course, but there are also other advantages to having an extra attack die. Among these:

* You punch through high-Agility targets more easily and more effectively

* Opportunist users can easily be boosted by external action donors (Garven, Dutch, etc.) in a way PTL users can't

* Opportunist works as a potent offensive boost for ships that can't use Target Lock

Additionally, you're dismissing the psychological impact as if it's negligible, and I think that's a mistake. Opportunist presents your opponent with a choice: I can take the action I want (target lock, barrel roll, Marksmanship, Expose, whatever) and take extra damage, or I can use focus. If you can push your opponent into playing more conservatively than he or she wants, which means you're winning; if your opponent doesn't take the bait, you're effectively getting free damage (about 10% more than you would have with PTL), which means you're winning.

And finally, don't forget that the timing of Opportunist is much friendlier than the timing of PTL. With PTL, you decide when you activate your ship whether you're going to use your EPT that round; with Opportunist, you don't have to decide until you attack. That means, particularly on the moderate-PS ships that are going to like Opportunist, you have a lot more information at decision time.

I would roll with this:

I fixed your numbers.

Thank you very much.

I could find the error in my calculations: 1 die with F+TL was at 1/8 and 7/8, not 1/16 and 15/16. Now my numbers match yours.

(Partially ninja'ed, but will post anyway… sorry for the duplication.)

Or just take PTL for 1 point less, and pick up TL+F for pretty much the same average damage (no, it doesn't have the same maximum damage, but we as a community have already established that max damage doesn't outweigh average damage, otherwise people would like expose) and then regardless of what your opponent does, you can make use of TL+F.

The only reason that opp can be better is if you play psychological games with your opponent and he doesn't spend his token due to the fact that you have opportunist on the board.

The problem with Expose is that it requires an action, and (unless you have a second action) is accordingly worse by 0.25 hits per attack roll. But the average number of hits rolled with Opportunist is better than the average with focus+TL--by 0.19 hits, or about the same margin.

You still have to use Opportunist almost as often as PTL in order to break even, of course, but there are also other advantages to having an extra attack die. Among these:

* You punch through high-Agility targets more easily and more effectively

* Opportunist users can easily be boosted by external action donors (Garven, Dutch, etc.) in a way PTL users can't

* Opportunist works as a potent offensive boost for ships that can't use Target Lock

Additionally, you're dismissing the psychological impact as if it's negligible, and I think that's a mistake. Opportunist presents your opponent with a choice: I can take the action I want (target lock, barrel roll, Marksmanship, Expose, whatever) and take extra damage, or I can use focus. If you can push your opponent into playing more conservatively than he or she wants, which means you're winning; if your opponent doesn't take the bait, you're effectively getting free damage (about 10% more than you would have with PTL), which means you're winning.

And finally, don't forget that the timing of Opportunist is much friendlier than the timing of PTL. With PTL, you decide when you activate your ship whether you're going to use your EPT that round; with Opportunist, you don't have to decide until you attack. That means, particularly on the moderate-PS ships that are going to like Opportunist, you have a lot more information at decision time.

I agree Opportunist will have its place in the game, as I stated earlier. But I believe it's place is better suited on a Green or Black/Saber. On Wedge, the opponent doesn't really have much choice - yeah, he can be forced to focus, but he still has that focus then for either defense or offense when he attacks... not too much has changed since focus is the default action anyways.

However, on a green, it makes you double think - do I spend that focus on Wedge/Luke/whomever, knowing that there's an opportunist waiting to attack me? If they do, then opportunist does 10% more damage than PTL TL+F did, for 1 point more. If they don't then opportunist prevented damage caused / dealt extra damage.

With Wedge sitting at PS9 and opportunist, you don't get the benefit of those tough choices that makes opportunist unique.

I agree Opportunist will have its place in the game, as I stated earlier. But I believe it's place is better suited on a Green or Black/Saber. On Wedge, the opponent doesn't really have much choice - yeah, he can be forced to focus, but he still has that focus then for either defense or offense when he attacks... not too much has changed since focus is the default action anyways.

However, on a green, it makes you double think - do I spend that focus on Wedge/Luke/whomever, knowing that there's an opportunist waiting to attack me? If they do, then opportunist does 10% more damage than PTL TL+F did, for 1 point more. If they don't then opportunist prevented damage caused / dealt extra damage.

With Wedge sitting at PS9 and opportunist, you don't get the benefit of those tough choices that makes opportunist unique.

Sorry--I was also defending Opportunist to someone on BGG who basically said it was crap, and my tone might have bled between the two posts more than I'd intended. I agree that Opportunist is generally not going to be a great choice on Wedge, although Janson + VI is an interesting workaround and I'd be interested to see it on the table.

But you're right that at least Green and Saber Squadron are going to like it a lot. I also think there will be some pilots in the middle of the PS ladder--Hobbie + R2-D6, Ibtisam, Chewie, Etahn (although that's getting a bit expensive), Jonus, and maybe even pilots like Kath and Porkins if you're running them with high-PS wingmates--who will get alone with Opportunist just fine. You don't need to shoot at low PS to get maximum usage out of Opportunist, you just need to let a couple of people cut in line in front of you...

I ran Opportunist on two Black Squadron Pilots alongside Howlrunner, and a couple of other named TIE's. Worked great!