Hi! I'm posting here to get an opinion on the balance of a anti-vehicle weapon I'm developing for the game I'm running. I usually like running this sort of thing by other GM's for opinions, but since I'm the only one who runs EotE in my area I'm trying here. I fully admit this is more or less a rip off of the standard Missile Tube with a few ability changes and a 'new' rule. My apologies for any formatting errors.

Merr-Sonn Munitions LAV-3 Anti-Vehicle Weapon System
Skill: Gunnery
Damage: 20
Critical: 3
Range: Extreme
Encum: 7
HP: 4
Price: ®7500
Rarity: 8
Special: Cumbersome 3, Guided 3, Breach 2, Prepare 1, Limited Ammo 3, Lock-on*
*Lock-on: In order to fire the weapon, it must have an target with IR or gravity signal (generate heat or active repulsorlift engine) and a silhouette of 2 or greater.

Two area's I'm still debating on. First, should I have blast or not (the warhead is more or less a shaped charge for the added armor penetration) and if not, should I add Vicious 1 instead or maybe leave it as is? Second, whether I should expand the Lock-on rule a bit to spend a turn (no incidentals, maneuvers, or actions) keeping lock and adding a boost die to the guided roll or combat check to attack (even on the 2nd or later attack from the guided rule.) If I give the boost die to the rule I might knock the launcher down to a Guided 2 though.

If you're wondering why this is needed, here are the circumstances my party of 3 players (pilot, merc, outlaw tech) are in. They will probably be taking on a AT-PT, maybe two but not at the same time, while trying to knock over a small Imperial supply depot. Its a bit of a desperation move, but their last job went bust due to some really, really bad rolls. They're way over their heads in debt to a Black Sun front, have a bounty hunter on their trail and an offer from a 'probable' Rebel agent could alleviate it. To help prevent an absolute mess from happening again, and pick up their confidence a bit, I'm going throw in some heavier stuff for them to use. While I anticipate they'll keep at least some of it, most of it will be sold to their contact to get them out of some of their obligation. If the heist is successful I'm debating whether or not to to stiff them a bit. From what I've read and seen in the movies, the Rebel Alliance isn't great about paying smugglers in full.

Out of curiosity why not just give them the missile tube in the book?

The stats are fine but I might drop the Encumbrance one or two since it doesn't hold as many shots as the standard missile tube.

Missile tube in the book is pants vs. Armor 3+

That's where the personal scale vs. vehicle scale really comes unglued. Once you hit Armor 3+, official weapons like Missile Tubes and the new Flechette launchers AV loads just can't hack it.*

What might make more sense though is to make a non vehicle mounted version of the Mini Missile Tube from the new Dangerous Covenants book. There's an unguided rocket and a guided missile version and while nasty should it be used against personnel, it's not that nasty.

Another good alternative (and actually better if you are worried about the players abusing it vs. people) would be to make the Equalizer Ion Cannon . You could base it off the light ion cannon, which would allow it to knock out smaller vehicles easier, do something noticeable to heavier vehicles, but still typically avoid the auto-kill when used against mounted PCs and be generally worthless against organic targets.

*I'm mostly ok with things like the missile tube and flechette launcher not being amazing against vehicles, in addition to gameplay issues, man portable weapons of this type just aren't that good against proper armored vehicles, the armor is just too heavy. I also expect to see more down the road, AoR already presented the anti-armor grenade and mine, and Dangerous Covenants added more weapons as well, so I'm sure there's more to be had.There are exceptions that I think should be addressed though, the AT-PT with Armor 3 is just too much for my taste,and I think some of the suggested stat adjustments in DC are a bit off base.

Rather than man-portable weapons, you might want to consider having the PCs steal a few AT-PTs for themselves. This allows for some mech-on-mech action while the size of the walkers ensures that they probably can't take them with them when they leave (avoiding gear inflation).

Out of curiosity why not just give them the missile tube in the book?

The stats are fine but I might drop the Encumbrance one or two since it doesn't hold as many shots as the standard missile tube.

As Ghostofman said, the PLEX (missile tube) is borderline worthless against vehicle armour 3+. The reason I dropped the ammo count was to account for the larger warhead and extra propellant needed to keep the same performance of the standard missile tube. And honestly, in my opinion, 6 missiles is overkill and would do wonderful things to the weight and balance of a launch system, sci-fi or not.

What might make more sense though is to make a non vehicle mounted version of the Mini Missile Tube from the new Dangerous Covenants book. There's an unguided rocket and a guided missile version and while nasty should it be used against personnel, it's not that nasty.

Another good alternative (and actually better if you are worried about the players abusing it vs. people) would be to make the Equalizer Ion Cannon . You could base it off the light ion cannon, which would allow it to knock out smaller vehicles easier, do something noticeable to heavier vehicles, but still typically avoid the auto-kill when used against mounted PCs and be generally worthless against organic targets.

*I'm mostly ok with things like the missile tube and flechette launcher not being amazing against vehicles, in addition to gameplay issues, man portable weapons of this type just aren't that good against proper armored vehicles, the armor is just too heavy. I also expect to see more down the road, AoR already presented the anti-armor grenade and mine, and Dangerous Covenants added more weapons as well, so I'm sure there's more to be had.There are exceptions that I think should be addressed though, the AT-PT with Armor 3 is just too much for my taste,and I think some of the suggested stat adjustments in DC are a bit off base.

The mini concussion missile isn't that bad and is pretty much what I'm going for. I just got DC in Saturday and haven't had a chance to go through it in depth yet, so thank you for bringing that to my attention. However, I really like the Equalizer Ion Cannon idea even better. It'll really cut down on the collateral (aka: less loot) if nothing else and it is suppose to be an Imperial weapon so it would be something that could be at the depot. Only thing I disagree with in your post is man portable weapons aren't good against armored vehicles. Things like the FGM-148 Javelin and the FMG-172 in today's armories tear up modern armor. Now would the Star Wars equivalent be able to take on a AT-AT or even a Juggernaut? Probably not, since those are basically mobile armored buildings with fairly large ordnance attached, but against AT-PT, AT-ST, and most speeders it shouldn't be an issue for dedicate anti-vehicle weapons to take care of.

Thanks for the help! Going to start stating out the Equalizer and see if that works.

EDIT:

Rather than man-portable weapons, you might want to consider having the PCs steal a few AT-PTs for themselves. This allows for some mech-on-mech action while the size of the walkers ensures that they probably can't take them with them when they leave (avoiding gear inflation).

The hilarity that'd ensue from them trying to pilot a AT-PT doesn't bear imaging. I realize that they could get away with just their ability scores (no one has Pilot [planetary] and only the merc has a point in Gunnery), but thats what was attempted in the previous job (over two sessions) and resulted in three wrecked speeders and the merc getting critically injured. I don't think they'd try it.

Or perhaps just place a fixed turret the players can hijack?

If the heist is successful I'm debating whether or not to to stiff them a bit. From what I've read and seen in the movies, the Rebel Alliance isn't great about paying smugglers in full.

What do you mean? Skywalkers always pay their debts!

If you have the Dangerous Covenants book the Plasma Grenade does 150 damage with 5 grenades making up the bomb that should destroy almost anything the Imps throw out them.Also the Rebels do have a pretty crappy track record on paying people just ask Han about his experiences with Bria she basically points a gun at him and says the rebels need it more then you do.

A Missile Tube is actually effective against armour 3, but that assumes enough advantage is scored to make a critical. It may not do hull trauma, but even 1 success on a missile-tube hit gets past 3 points of armour, which is just enough to inflict a critical while not actually doing any hull trauma damage.

Considering only 2 advantage are required to activate a critical, that's not bad odds.

Of course, Age of Rebellion also has anti-vehicle mines, but that requires a plant-in-place kind of thing.

A Missile Tube is actually effective against armour 3, but that assumes enough advantage is scored to make a critical. It may not do hull trauma, but even 1 success on a missile-tube hit gets past 3 points of armour, which is just enough to inflict a critical while not actually doing any hull trauma damage.

Considering only 2 advantage are required to activate a critical, that's not bad odds.

Of course, Age of Rebellion also has anti-vehicle mines, but that requires a plant-in-place kind of thing.

The odds aren't that good either.

See to Crit and Armor 3 target with a missile tube, you'll need to score a success, and two advantage or a triumph. Actually doing that means you're probably going to need to have either a really high gunnery skill, or be engaging the target at nearly point blank range.

After you've hit and caused enough damage to exceed the armor, but not enough to do any HT damage, you crit (maybe, this is another fuzzy part).

Now... you roll on the crit chart... and if you roll well you might inconvenience the vehicle crew.

But to actually "take out" the vehicle you've got to crit multiple times, and then also roll high enough to generate a damage effect that either destroys the target (as in ka-boom) or render's it combat ineffective (immobilizing it facing a weird direction, destroy all it's weapons, ect.)

So... it's possible, but not really something I'd go into a fight planning to do.

As it stands the only way to reliably engage an Armor 3 foe is with vehicle weapons, mines, demo charges, or utilizing some fancy tactical narratives. I think there's also a talent that give you breach 1 or breach +1 on the weapon you are using, but I don't recall if this is an ongoing effect or a "once per x" kinda thing. Still I d remember it's at the bottom of the talent tree, so that's a pile of XP either way.

With the new missile types in Dangerous Covenants it's not too much of a stretch for a GM to invent an "anti-walker" missile that has higher Breach and fewer other qualities. Maybe add on a setback die or two against fast-moving vehicles, and you have a fairly balanced (and specialized) missile.

With the new missile types in Dangerous Covenants it's not too much of a stretch for a GM to invent an "anti-walker" missile that has higher Breach and fewer other qualities. Maybe add on a setback die or two against fast-moving vehicles, and you have a fairly balanced (and specialized) missile.

There's certainly precedent...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/J8Q-128_Finbat_Missile

Missile tubes aren't perfect, to be sure.

They're comparable to WW2 bazooka type anti-tank weapons. Truthfully against any agree of armour on a tank, they weren't all that effective, but a lucky shot could knock a tread off of them (crit) to stop them. I see Missile tubes being very much in the same vein. Not that effective versus armour, but against smaller and lighter aircraft, they are quite effective.

Most of the ground-based vehicles that are out there are less than armour 3.

However, the odds of rolling 1 success and 2 advantages with anybody with Ag3 and 1 rank are pretty good... especially given that at average range, they're going to be rolling against only one agility dice. I did a test firing with 10 shots against armour 3, assuming 1 rank in gunnery, and 3 agility, add in 1-2 blue dice for aiming.

I also assumed the vehicle was silhouette 3... so the shooter's difficulty is reduced by 1 die... So that's GGYBB vs. P at average range.

With this, 8 out of 10 shots inflicted a crit result on the walker. No shots missed. 2 of the shots inflicted a double crit, which is a roll of +10 on the chart. I then tried it with only one aim dice given the prepare quality of the weapon, and the result was essentially the same. In all cases, the missile launcher missed the target only once, which Guided 3 then turned into a hit, in all these attacks it triggered a crit 8 out of 10 times.

I think these Missile tubes are better than we give them credit for...

I was thinking a lot about the Missile Tube yesterday. I gave it to the party after the ambush at the Lylek Den (because it says they were shot in transit and 9 damage isn't enough to get through even a single point of armor on a speeder) planning to have Thweek appear with his Dunelizard as they'd deftly avoided the ambush in space with a semi-permanent solution off book.

The problem I had when looking at the numbers is that with Breach 1, 20 damage and 1 Hull = 10 Wounds it would take 10 successes to deal 1 point of Hull Trauma and at 10 Hull (using the improved ship stats from the forum) the 5 Missiles they have couldn't make a dent and a landspeeder (Speed 2) couldn't outrun a Dunelizard (Speed 4). I had thought that they can't possibly have made a weapon designed for anti-vehicle combat so ineffective.

My interpretation of the Missile Tube vs 3 armor (for now):

1 Success = 1 Hull Trauma

6 Success = 2 Hull Trauma (being kind and rounding up)

10 Success = 2 Hull Trauma (being unkind)

Thoughts?

I think you're focusing too much on hull trauma being the sole determination point for taking down opposing craft, be they land based or otherwise. A missile tube vs. armour 3 would need to have 10 successes to inflict any sort of hull trauma, but as I note above, a missile tube has an 80% chance of hitting AND inflicting a crit on a silhouette 3 armour 3 vehicle assuming the firer has one rank in gunnery and 3 agility. It may not do hull damage, but critical hits are far more dangerous than we give them credit for.

A single success with a missile tube gets past armour (20 damage + 1 breach + 1 success = 31 points of personal damage). It could be GM's discretion that this would do a minimum of 1 point of hull damage. I'd play it conservatively and say no, but let the easy to trigger critical hits tell the story.

Missile tubes aren't perfect, to be sure.

They're comparable to WW2 bazooka type anti-tank weapons. Truthfully against any agree of armour on a tank, they weren't all that effective, but a lucky shot could knock a tread off of them (crit) to stop them. I see Missile tubes being very much in the same vein. Not that effective versus armour, but against smaller and lighter aircraft, they are quite effective.

Most of the ground-based vehicles that are out there are less than armour 3.

However, the odds of rolling 1 success and 2 advantages with anybody with Ag3 and 1 rank are pretty good... especially given that at average range, they're going to be rolling against only one agility dice. I did a test firing with 10 shots against armour 3, assuming 1 rank in gunnery, and 3 agility, add in 1-2 blue dice for aiming.

I also assumed the vehicle was silhouette 3... so the shooter's difficulty is reduced by 1 die... So that's GGYBB vs. P at average range.

With this, 8 out of 10 shots inflicted a crit result on the walker. No shots missed. 2 of the shots inflicted a double crit, which is a roll of +10 on the chart. I then tried it with only one aim dice given the prepare quality of the weapon, and the result was essentially the same. In all cases, the missile launcher missed the target only once, which Guided 3 then turned into a hit, in all these attacks it triggered a crit 8 out of 10 times.

I think these Missile tubes are better than we give them credit for...

Interesting eval. My dice pool was a little different (I was assuming Sil 2 targets and including several setback for vehicle movement and environmental effects, but my player skill was 3:2). But running your pool I do get similar results.

I still am suspicious of taking this with the intent of "killing" a vehicle (the dice are a cruel mistress and a lot can happen in tha many rounds), but I do like how under the right circumstances you can Crit against Armor 3 with reasonable reliability.

Interesting eval. My dice pool was a little different (I was assuming Sil 2 targets and including several setback for vehicle movement and environmental effects, but my player skill was 3:2). But running your pool I do get similar results.

I still am suspicious of taking this with the intent of "killing" a vehicle (the dice are a cruel mistress and a lot can happen in tha many rounds), but I do like how under the right circumstances you can Crit against Armor 3 with reasonable reliability.

Your first evaluation is simialr to what I went for in a dice pool, except the guy that is probably going to be using the heavy weapons will only have 3 ability:1 proficiency. Also an AT-PT is Sil 2 and with armor 3 and usually I account for the pilot trying to be somewhat intellgent in his/her/it's maneuvers, so it is a PITA to take down. Even with a 80% hits gaining a critical, using (in my view) the optimistic scenario put up by Agatheron, you're still relying on the crit table to take down the walker. This could work incredibly well, or really drag things out and exspose the party to taking serious damage depending on how the dice are feeling.

Right now I'm going with a multiprong approach to taking out or circumventing the walker (I'm leanign towards one active one), to include a hard computer check to put the motor pool in to lock down (open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!), multiple missile tubes, the Equalizer Ion Cannon (still dinking around with the stats), and possibly a 3 crew tank based off the A-19 in the Suns of Fortune book that a mechanics check could get running again. Preliminary stats:

TBD (To Be Deteremined) Tank "Relic"

Silhouette: 3

Speed: 1

Handling: -2

Defense: 0--0

Armor: 3

Hull Trauma: 12

System Strain: 10

HullType/Class: Armored Fighting Vehicle/TBD

Manufacturer: TBD

Sensor Range: Close

Crew: 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator/Engineer/Gunner, 1 Gunner

Encumbrance: 25

Passengers:0

Cost/Rarity:TBD

Customization Hard Points: 2

Weapons: Dorsal turret-mounted heavy blaster cannon (Fire Arc All: See Core Rule book P.230 for stats), Forward mounted Heavy Repeating Blaster* (Fire Arc Forward: See Core Rule Book P.230 for stats)

*This weapon, and only this weapon, uses personal scale, not planetary scale.

It's slow enough and armored enough that even this party will have a hell of a time wrecking it (famous last words.) On top of that, the crew positions will let them work to their strengths in operating the vehicle. Also it's to big to take home in their dinky YT-1000! And a bit off topic, but how does one put spoiler tags on something in these forums? I'd like to condense my future post when I'm adding in stat blocks.

I think one thing to remember is that even today's anti-tank weapons are more designed to slow and harass armour and vehicles, rather than to destroy them outright. In WW2, the primary tank-killers were artillery, rather than specific direct-fire weapons. As such, just to beat the dead horse a titch more, I think Missile tubes represent what they're supposed to be quite well, but if one is going to take down walkers, its better to break out the heavier artillery.

Slow and harass armored formations . TOW's and Javelins can defeat any armored fielded today and they're just the man portable stuff. Heck, a Russian made RPG-29 penetrated and darn near knocked out a Challenger II MBT in Iraq. Modern AT weapons are designed to take out the heaviest of tanks in one hit because you probably won't get a second chance. I think the reason the lack of effectiveness of the missile tube is frustrating to myself, and to a lesser extent my players since they haven't faced anything dirt side with an armor rating yet, is we're all current or former military. We at least have an idea how effective this stuff can be and one player hauled around a AT-4 in the Army for awhile (and is the only one with first hand experince with real AT weapons.) I'm by no means trying turn a Star Wars game into a mil sim, this is for fun after all, but some aspects can be frustrating is all.

If the missile tube did Damage 2 as a planetary scale weapon it would be far more capable against vehicles since multiple successes would actually add meaningfully to the damage.

Preliminary stats:

TBD (To Be Deteremined) Tank "Relic"

Silhouette: 3

Speed: 1

Handling: -2

Defense: 0--0

Armor: 3

Hull Trauma: 12

System Strain: 10

HullType/Class: Armored Fighting Vehicle/TBD

Manufacturer: TBD

Sensor Range: Close

Crew: 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator/Engineer/Gunner, 1 Gunner

Encumbrance: 25

Passengers:0

Cost/Rarity:TBD

Customization Hard Points: 2

Weapons: Dorsal turret-mounted heavy blaster cannon (Fire Arc All: See Core Rule book P.230 for stats), Forward mounted Heavy Repeating Blaster* (Fire Arc Forward: See Core Rule Book P.230 for stats)

*This weapon, and only this weapon, uses personal scale, not planetary scale.

It's slow enough and armored enough that even this party will have a hell of a time wrecking it (famous last words.) On top of that, the crew positions will let them work to their strengths in operating the vehicle. Also it's to big to take home in their dinky YT-1000! And a bit off topic, but how does one put spoiler tags on something in these forums? I'd like to condense my future post when I'm adding in stat blocks.

I'd go ahead and make the Speed 2, then it could count as a stand in for either of the following until you get official stats...

S-1 Firehawke

1-M Imperial Repulsortank

For the Equalizer, something like this should be in the ballpark:

Same as missile tube except:

Range: Long

Enc: 6

Limited Ammo 4, Breach 2, Cumbersome 3, Prepare 1

Slow and harass armored formations . TOW's and Javelins can defeat any armored fielded today and they're just the man portable stuff. Heck, a Russian made RPG-29 penetrated and darn near knocked out a Challenger II MBT in Iraq. Modern AT weapons are designed to take out the heaviest of tanks in one hit because you probably won't get a second chance. I think the reason the lack of effectiveness of the missile tube is frustrating to myself, and to a lesser extent my players since they haven't faced anything dirt side with an armor rating yet, is we're all current or former military. We at least have an idea how effective this stuff can be and one player hauled around a AT-4 in the Army for awhile (and is the only one with first hand experince with real AT weapons.) I'm by no means trying turn a Star Wars game into a mil sim, this is for fun after all, but some aspects can be frustrating is all.

I don't disagree, but this is Edge of the Empire, where high end military grade weapons arent as common. They are more likely older surplus weaponry rather than state of the art. According to some of the sources I looked at, AT-4's aren't capable of taking out a Main Battle Tank with any degree of reliability. Oddly enough it was the model I was looking at as the example. A TOW on the other hand is much larger, and far more expensive. Javelins cost $78,000 per missile... They'd better **** well work at that price

In Dangerous Covenants we see more missile variants, but they are primarily anti-personnel weapons rather than anti-armour. I suspect that we may see specific anti armour variants in a future release. I was listening to some back issues of the Order 66 Podcast, and the one with Andrew Fischer on Age of Rebellion reminded me that the Core Rulebook stuff are intended to be more general and generic weapons. The splat books on the other hand will provide more specific weapon variants. I suspect we may see planetary scale damage from some sort of sentient portable anti armour weapon at some point.

In the meantime I apologise if I came across as putting down your weapon variant. I wasn't trying to, as I think it works, and should work well for your campaign. I was just trying to point out that the missile tube as printed isn't totally useless against armour 3.

Also, how much do Javelins and TOWs weigh again?

Just saying... my definition of "man portable" isn't the same as Swift's....nor my expectations of the systems' performance against a modern MBT when factoring in the big picture...

A javelin will explosively disassemble a T-72.

Saw a powerpoint review after this. Turret was blown 60 feet straight up. The engine landed over 400 feet away.

I don't disagree, but this is Edge of the Empire, where high end military grade weapons arent as common. They are more likely older surplus weaponry rather than state of the art. According to some of the sources I looked at, AT-4's aren't capable of taking out a Main Battle Tank with any degree of reliability. Oddly enough it was the model I was looking at as the example. A TOW on the other hand is much larger, and far more expensive. Javelins cost $78,000 per missile... They'd better **** well work at that price

In Dangerous Covenants we see more missile variants, but they are primarily anti-personnel weapons rather than anti-armour. I suspect that we may see specific anti armour variants in a future release. I was listening to some back issues of the Order 66 Podcast, and the one with Andrew Fischer on Age of Rebellion reminded me that the Core Rulebook stuff are intended to be more general and generic weapons. The splat books on the other hand will provide more specific weapon variants. I suspect we may see planetary scale damage from some sort of sentient portable anti armour weapon at some point.

In the meantime I apologise if I came across as putting down your weapon variant. I wasn't trying to, as I think it works, and should work well for your campaign. I was just trying to point out that the missile tube as printed isn't totally useless against armour 3.

Oh yes, I realize the ordanace I'm bringing up is out of the norm for EotE, but remember they're knocking over a backwater Imperial supply base. Military equipment is to be expected and highly valued since it's the objective of the job. How much they manage to grab and subsequently keep is another matter however. Frankly, I'm hoping to roll in some stuff from Age of Rebellion since this group seems to be going the mercenary route, but have in game reason not to join the Rebellion. But since AoR seems to be of a more militaristic bent, I can definitly see, and hope, to have some heavier ordnance coming down the pipe.

Also, after re-reading the Ion rule, I'm probably not going to bother stating out the Equalizer since Ion doesn't bypass armor. Might later, but that is a bit high tech-ish for a backwater supply depot and it isn't going to perform quiet as I hoped so... Meh. I'm probably going to slip in something similar to what I posted originally as a option. And yes, the AT4 is definitely not a MBT killer by any means. Kinda similar in role to the in game missile tube as a general purpose rocket actually.

Also, how much do Javelins and TOWs weigh again?

Just saying... my definition of "man portable" isn't the same as Swift's....nor my expectations of the systems' performance against a modern MBT when factoring in the big picture...

Fully set up and loaded, quiet a bit, but I'm not going to use the "technical" term I've heard used to describe it...They're man portable, but both are usually crew operated. Javelin usually with 2 and the TOW with 3, I think, but I've honestly never seen a TOW not vehicle mounted. Full disclosure, I'm former Air Force and never had to directly deal with those things other than as cargo. My info is mainly from what I'm told by the former Army player, a few other military friends and what I read. It was a tangent and I apologize. Battlefield/CoD players (not to lump Agatheron into that group) hit a nerve after awhile as they really underestimate what modern weapon systems can do when they 'tell' you what a weapon can and can't do and how it sucks. Knee jerk reaction and again I apologize for the tangent.

As to the speed bump to the tank... I can't see why not thinking about it. I was trying to give the AT-PT some advantage over it if it came down to it, but ultimately thats not what this is going to be about and it'll probably be a one off thing. I could call it a slightly up gunned 1-M variant (the S-1 has a bit too much firepower), but a repulsortank might not work narratively. This group likes to smash stuff when they can get away with it, so I'm thinking an old fashion tank that crushes almost all beneath it would suit them well. "Subtlety is something that happens to other people" is a direct quote from the merc player, to give you an idea. And it's an Imperial base, if things that are not the objective get smashed it the proccess, its almost guilt free! If they find it in the vehicle bay and get it working anyway, which might be asking a bit much. It'd definitly get them back on their game, Gods of the dice willing.

Thank you all for the input.

Honestly, this is something that's been irritating me for a while as well. The rules simply don't support any reasonable sorts interactions between character and vehicle scales in EotE. It's definitely a failing that the design team should get around to addressing at some point.

The clumsy fix that we've used thus far involves taking any vehicle down to 5x when in character scale combat and leaving things as they are when in vehicle scale. Basically, anything that is size 4 or below is operating at x5 when interacting with character scale but is bumped back up when dealing with other ships and vehicles in vehicle combat. It's worked fairly well thus far without requiring a complicated overhaul of the entire vehicle rules.

The missile tubes and other heavy weapons pack significantly more of a punch, which I believe is in keeping with the source material.