So, thus far I've always played in such a way where I prefer to engage the enemy with all of my ships on the same turn, bringing the most guns possible. And logically that seems to be the way to go.

But recently, there was a discussion about what unit R2-D2 was best on, and the consensus was a Rookie Pilot, with the logic being that R2-D2 is one of the best end game upgrades, and the rookie is much more likely to survive to endgame over wedge/biggs, and as such will get the most out of the upgrade.

And then there's my recent personal experiences with a Prototype vs. a Green Squadron Pilot w/ PTL. Both are considered to be less threatening and as such are my last ships alive (assuming the opponent is taking ships out). The GSP w/ PTL is a vastly superior closer than the prototype, and I'll go on record and say that it is a better closer than a Red Squadron Pilot. Finally, a Blue Squadron Pilot is a better closer than a Rookie Pilot... the Blue with barrel roll and the hard 1 can get out of arcs of trailing X wings, Bombers, Advanced, Firesprays, Shuttles, etc. Basically anything without a 1 turn. And then there's all this talk about Porkins being the best closer since he can just K turn whenever, I don't think that makes him the best closer, but it does give him a distinct advantage over other X wings.

So... With that as the preface, my question I wish to discuss, is if it is ever in the best interest of a squad to leave certain ships out of the initial combat strike for a certain number of turns, gimping your initial force, but keeping a quality closer that would otherwise be targeted early alive until the latter half of the game?

This is a great topic for discussion. I've had some success in builds where I can keep Soontir Fel with PtL in the wings while the rest of my force gets some guns off the board. Then, later on, Fel can swing around and be pretty devastating while staying out of the few remaining arcs.

This is a great topic for discussion. I've had some success in builds where I can keep Soontir Fel with PtL in the wings while the rest of my force gets some guns off the board. Then, later on, Fel can swing around and be pretty devastating while staying out of the few remaining arcs.

That's a perfect example of what I'm trying to discuss. Is it worth it to leave Fel out of the fight, and lose those 3 dice for a few turns, and likely end up behind the other player, just to have him come back at full strength to close out the game, where he is probably the best pilot come end game.

A quality closer is a good idea. However, you cannot afford to keep one ship out of the fight for long. So he needs to participate early. You need to find the right balance between attack and survival. With a slight focus on survival.

This is a great topic for discussion. I've had some success in builds where I can keep Soontir Fel with PtL in the wings while the rest of my force gets some guns off the board. Then, later on, Fel can swing around and be pretty devastating while staying out of the few remaining arcs.

That's a perfect example of what I'm trying to discuss. Is it worth it to leave Fel out of the fight, and lose those 3 dice for a few turns, and likely end up behind the other player, just to have him come back at full strength to close out the game, where he is probably the best pilot come end game.

It depends what type of game you're playing. If you're playing for complete destruction, then it's a sound tactic. However, if you're playing in a timed tournament game, leaving a ship out of the fight may allow your opponent to get a lead in points destroyed that you won't be able to overcome quick enough with your closing pilot before the end of the game.

I think in Soontir's case, range 3 shots of opportunity while the rest of your forces do the main assault early on makes sense, but always have an escape route planned for him as well. You might find focused fire coming his way, but that might also be exactly what you want so the main squad remains intact and hopefully Soontir can dodge everything coming at him (with an evade and 1-2 foci at range 3 with stealth, should be pretty doable).

If you can take Dark Curse mid-game and put him in a 1 on 1 situation, he can usually prevail through whittling down his opponent and staying at range 2-3.

On a related note, of course, Biggs is so good because he essentially makes everyone with him potential end-game winners - if he can live a couple of rounds while his friends chew up the opposing force, then by the time Biggs dies you tend to have what's left of the opponent vs 2-3 fully healed rebels. Ugh...

Dark Curse is an awesome closer, and he tends to be ignored anyway. Winged Gundark isn't too shabby either, since by the time you get to the end most of the enemy's shields are gone. Both are cheap enough that they can be put in a squad and tend to be ignored in favor of better targets.

Great thoughts, Khyros! Have been thinking about a squad with Hobbie since the transport announcement. The "54th Fighter Wing," 2 PS5s and 2 PS4s:

Hobbie

Biggs

Red Squadron

Red Squadron

Leaves four points, and have been thinking about how to best use them. I read your post, and it reminded me of a match I played where I had an X-wing with R2-D2 still alive vs 2 bombers, one damaged and one undamaged but neither had ordnance remaining. R2-D2 allowed me to win the match, as the bombers had to hit me twice in a row to guarantee net damage each turn, which was made more difficult when I destroyed the one with damage.

I'm thinking I drop R2-D2 on one of the Red Squadrons, as they will not be priority targets. It could help me out as a closer as it has before.

Thoughts?

Fel and Turr or a named Firespray are the best end gamers around.

Do not, I repeat, do not take them out of the fight for more than 1 round. You are paying a hefty price for those 3-4 red dice and leaving them off the table cripples your engagement/alpha strike. You just traded 1 of the best pilots in the game for a tie fighter for 2 rounds 2 academy ties cost less than your "endgame" piece have more HP and more firepower.

With an interceptor if I'm given a flank, I take it, this usually results in a range 2-3 shot on engagment round, followed by a range 1 shot, and then usually they have guns facing you. Sometimes they turn right away and your "off" round is round 1 or 2 of the engagement but that usually works in your favor anyway.

Named firesprays (especially Boba and Kath) if they make it to end game are awesome. Boba can't really be blocked and shoots first, Kath can stress and is often equipped with Rebel captive for more stress or with Expert handling for crazy large base barrel rolls and lock losing; sometimes both!

On the rebel side it depends on who you're fighting. If you're up against other rebels/slower imperials then Bwing is very good. Bwing, however, gets eaten alive by ties/interceptors/firesprays.

For the Empire, Vader is the best closer. He's so unpredictable and maneuverable that he can be hard for even two ships to handle. I've won a few games with just Vader left.

For the Rebels, the A-wing. On a budget Green with PtL, but Tycho is even better.

Both of these ships are fast and have great dials. Use them as rabbits, and set them up to take safe shots with low risk of taking damage in return. If you can get your opponent to chase them, enjoy the juicy back shots your other ships will gain!

Vader depends on the load out... if you took EU then yes, if not, ehh... but you just spent ~35pts for an interceptor with 2 red...nothing closes out a game like 4 red dice before they can shoot back.

I much prefer Fel and Turr and soon, Cowall.

Vader depends on the load out... if you took EU then yes, if not, ehh... but you just spent ~35pts for an interceptor with 2 red...nothing closes out a game like 4 red dice before they can shoot back.

I much prefer Fel and Turr and soon, Cowall.

I agree that the Interceptors have a more natural offensive punch, but keeping them alive through the end of the game is not as easy as it is with Vader...

Having the Falcon stand off a bit and then sweep in to mop up after your fighters isn't a bad idea, either. Ditto Slave-1 for the Empire. Especially if you've been busy immobilizing things with an Ion cannon.

I don't think you want to keep a ship entirely out of the battle for a couple turns, but having it participate in a way that has it not get shot at is good. Having a good ship as a flanker, or to be a distraction can contribute to the combat even if the ship in question isn't actually doing any damage itself.

First, this is a great topic. Second, MLGS has been talking about this for about two weeks. I was involved in one game that stared the topic. I flew a Luke, Biggs, and Wedge list against Chewie, Biggs, and a Dagger. The end game came down to an almost clean Chewie vs a dinged up Luke. HOWEVER, I had put a shield upgrade and R2D2 on Luke. All I did was evade attacks down to one damage while I regenerated the hit the following turn. In the end between Luke's ability and R2D2 I negated about 12 damage. Amazing end game piece.

My next example happened this past weekend at a store championship. I flew a ridiculous list that relied totally on Soontir Fel being the last piece on the table. I flew Fel until he was dropping in behind my opponents ships. The only loss I had was a game where my opponent shot Fel first. In every other game it was Fel Vs Whatever in the end and Fel (With a bucket of tokens shooting first.) for the win.

Best end game pieces in no order:

Luke with R2-D2

Soontir Fel with PTL

Horton with an Ion Cannon

A-wing with PTL

Worst:

B-wing, too many ships can out fly it.

Academy Pilot

ORS

B-wing

In my experience, that ship you use to clean the plate ( in my case usually soontir ) if you engage with it it will usually draw fire from your other ships and in turn increase their potential. I would hold soontir back for range 3 engagement for the first round and exchanging fire, but then the gloves come of.

Would i like soontir at the end every time? Hell yeah.

But in my 4 interceptor list if he goes down there has been so much damage caused to my oponent any of my ceptors could clean house and have.

Luke with R2D2 and an Engine Upgrade is the ultimate closer. If he is focused early, his ability provides him an enormous advantage. Firing at him first means that it will take far longer to kill the rest of your squadron, giving you a large advantage early game. If your opponent chooses to fire at his easier to kill squadmates, he guarantees that the squadron will be diminished in firepower by the time it begins firing at Luke.

At the end, if Luke with R2D2 and Engine is on the board vs. 1 or 2 enemy ships he should clobber them. Super-crazy dice luck notwithstanding, Luke can Green 2 plus boost to say away from anyone for a turn or two while his shields recover, then come back through for a firing pass. Green+boost to stay away and regen again, then make another pass. Rinse, repeat, wear the opponents away and win the game. Two ships is just not enough focused firepower to bring Luke down in a single round of firing, which with Engine is all Luke should be allowing them on each pass.

The same can be done with Horton Salm + Engine, but Horton is not as good at surviving if your opponent decides to focus him first so he takes second place to Luke.

With the arrival of Porkins, there is a real chance that he will challenge for the second spot as closer. His ability is absolutely murderous in a one on one fight, but if he is outnumbered by 2 or more he won't have the ability to survive as well as Luke.

So... With that as the preface, my question I wish to discuss, is if it is ever in the best interest of a squad to leave certain ships out of the initial combat strike for a certain number of turns, gimping your initial force, but keeping a quality closer that would otherwise be targeted early alive until the latter half of the game?

Generally not, because of the snowball effect of constantly whittling down the enemy. Or in this case, letting them whittle you down at their max output damage while you come in single or double file. Voluntarily putting your troops through a chokepoint is almost always a Very Bad Idea.

That being said, putting your tanks in front and glass cannons in back is a very good way to mitigate the damage than your opponent can do to you. Glass Cannons in front = you lose your best ships very fast.

Edit: the best closing is when you can force your opponent to take sub-optimal or average shots on your ships, while you can maximize your own damage output. Then you end up with a multiple ship lead, and you close with multiple ships.

Wait a minute, are you saying that the best closing is when you blow up everyone first??

That can't be right...

:-) I know, obvious, right? Ha ha. Easier said than done.

Sitting out of combat for the endgame cleanup is a terrible idea,imo. You are gimping the endgame by not outputting as much damage as you can.

Instead, stay at flanking range 3 and take safe shots till you have to,