I find he is the least useful unique shuttle pilot - because his ability is limited to range 1 AND you need an action to get a TL first and hand it over. FCS is an option to help about this - as well as the title (somewhat) - but the greatest drawback is the limited range!
If the range would be at least 1-2 like Yorrs' ...
... have you ever used him? What are your experiences?
He is useful in a 125 point game for setting up an alpha strike. I use him with the st321 title and park my bomber beside him. I also set him up as a buzzsaw, and then I send him in ahead of the bombers, which now have locks and are set up with an alpha with TL and focus. Once the ordinance is away, someone is usually close enough to pass of a TL to. FWIW, I think he will shine more in epic play, especially with the bigger play areas, which will make ST321 even more powerful. Note that the buzzsaw shuttle has system upgrade to grant TL after the attack. I do agree that a larger range on his ability would be nice. The large base helps some as well.
He is to many points in a 100 point game. That is my feeling on most support ships. At higher points, they really shine though.
I think with a small base range 1 would be less a problem. It is a problem because of the large base.
And I think Yorr is very useful in 100 point games - because his ability is up to range 2 - so Yorr don't have to be part of the formation to be useful - he just need to be nearby. And that is what I think Jendon is lacking.
Just look at the rebel support ships - they have range 3 for their abilities. And Jendon has only range 1 in his giant flying brick?
I've had great success with him in 100 point games, as he can pass his TL to ships that do not have the ability to take them: in my case it has been interceptors.
I used him just this weekend,
Jendon in st-321
Rhymer and Jonus both with assault missiles and advanced proton torpedoes
Obviously it was go real slow for a couple turns to give everyone TLs before alpha striking. I was facing Tycho (ptl), Arvel and Ibitsam (sensors and expert handling)
Jendon allowed me to get off a devastating alpha strike, but then was of fairly limited use.
I think with a small base range 1 would be less a problem. It is a problem because of the large base.
How so? The large base should be a big asset for something like this. I haven't done the geometry, but the large base should be at least doubling the area covered by the range 1 bubble.
Wouldn't it be better to both give Jonus + Rhymer PtL and have Yorr nearby to get rid of the stress markers?
Now that you mention it, yeah, probably. Although I am not sure I have 2 PtLs.
Honestly, I don't particularly like Yorr. The shuttle has so few green maneuvers I can't imagine ever willingly adding stress to it. In the above lust I would probably just keep the stress on the bombers and get rid of it naturally.
I think with a small base range 1 would be less a problem. It is a problem because of the large base.
How so? The large base should be a big asset for something like this. I haven't done the geometry, but the large base should be at least doubling the area covered by the range 1 bubble.
It is no problem to move Howlrunner or Jonus in a tight formation for their R1 abilities ... but it is a whole different story if you mix large bases and small bases in a tight formation. Somebody is going to lose his action in the turns - and thats not good - especially if Jendon loses his action he can't TL so he can't pass his lock to somebody else.
Now that you mention it, yeah, probably. Although I am not sure I have 2 PtLs.
Honestly, I don't particularly like Yorr. The shuttle has so few green maneuvers I can't imagine ever willingly adding stress to it. In the above lust I would probably just keep the stress on the bombers and get rid of it naturally.
Well I experienced that Yorr comes next to Howlrunner and Jonus, when it comes to usefulness as supporter.
But of course it depents how you use him and what you expect when using shuttles. Of course after Yorr passed the enemy ships loaded with stress markers he is floating around in a large circle - but if you manage to carry the battle next to him, e.g. make a K-Turn with an Interceptor within range 2 of Yorr, he is still valuable even if he dont get a shot.
As a supporter, Jendons range of 1 is just too limited to fly like a Yorr.
How so? The large base should be a big asset for something like this. I haven't done the geometry, but the large base should be at least doubling the area covered by the range 1 bubble.I think with a small base range 1 would be less a problem. It is a problem because of the large base.
The geometry is 4 90* arc sections with a 10 cm radius, as well as 4 rectangles of 10x8 cm. With a small-base ship, those 4 rectangles become 10x4.
The total areas are 634.5... vs 474.5... cm
My Jendon build is a basic Buzzsaw shuttle + Weapons Engineer + ST-321.
I can run this alongside 3x Interceptors quite easily, or 4x Ties
My opening tactic is to start Jendon sideways, looping around the perimeter of the board, and the rest of the fleet staying between him and the enemy, sort of like a mothership.
My more agile ships, once equipped with a TL from big daddy, fly in to take a pot-shot at their target, and then fly back home.
My more agile ships run interference when the enemy comes to take on Jendon, clustering around his back and side.
If the enemy is instead tackling Jendon's escorts, my ships fly into Jendon's firing arc, hoping to lead their pursuers into the jaws of death.
See Lambda 101 and Lambda 102 for the goods on the Buzzsaw Shuttle's self-contained tactics.
So you use Jendon more like a 'mother ship' ... well thats quite interesting if it works out.
And your Interceptors really manage to fly back to Jendon to get another TL before they pop? ^^
I use Jendon in a similar manner. It works fairly well most of the time. Looping in and out of battle to stock up. I find it's helpful to separate your ships out, only fly one ship at a time back to Jendon so that the enemy can't break off to pursue without letting his buddies chew them up. It's tricky and sometimes it just flat out does not work but when it works it can be rather nasty.
================
Mother Ship Jendon
================
100 points
Pilots
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Colonel Jendon (34)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (26), Fire-Control System (2), Ion Cannon (3), ST-321 (3)
Saber Squadron Pilot (22)
TIE Interceptor (21), Veteran Instincts (1)
Saber Squadron Pilot (22)
TIE Interceptor (21), Veteran Instincts (1)
Saber Squadron Pilot (22)
TIE Interceptor (21), Veteran Instincts (1)
... thats maybe worth a try ^^
All ships have PS6 so flying together shouldn't be that much of an issue.
================
Mother Ship Jendon
================
100 points
Pilots
------
Colonel Jendon (34)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (26), Fire-Control System (2), Ion Cannon (3), ST-321 (3)
Saber Squadron Pilot (22)
TIE Interceptor (21), Veteran Instincts (1)
Saber Squadron Pilot (22)
TIE Interceptor (21), Veteran Instincts (1)
Saber Squadron Pilot (22)
TIE Interceptor (21), Veteran Instincts (1)
... thats maybe worth a try ^^
All ships have PS6 so flying together shouldn't be that much of an issue.
wouldn't a Weapons Engineer be better for the build than the Ion?
with the 2 TLs available, combined with ST-321 and FCS, you should have 1 for Jendon and one to pass.
Thats an option, of course.
Tried Jendon a couple times. Putting the right upgrades on him makes him useful, but then he still doesn't make those extra points back. Yorr I've found worth taking in PtL heavy lists, but that's about it. He could become better with all the extra stress related stuff coming out, unless of course there become other ships that can take away stress from allied ships (talk of an EPT that can do that in wave 4 could ruin Yorr). Kagi usually gets ignored, but may be handy when Jax comes out.
And your Interceptors really manage to fly back to Jendon to get another TL before they pop? ^^
Very much so.
Getting a TL from Jendon, they're more free to take defensive actions.
I also choose short engagements as my ideal: pop in, and pop out.
A tight cluster of asteroids helps as well:
My Interceptors navigate it better than most other ships, which means that I can shuffle my shuttle around it with significantly reduced fear of flankers.
B-Wings are a problem as far as that goes, but they get absolutely boiled by Interceptors, so I don't fear that match-up.
I find he is the least useful unique shuttle pilot - because his ability is limited to range 1 AND you need an action to get a TL first and hand it over. FCS is an option to help about this - as well as the title (somewhat) - but the greatest drawback is the limited range!
If the range would be at least 1-2 like Yorrs' ...
... have you ever used him? What are your experiences?
Yea, I've played with him several times and can't relate to your "problems"
He is to many points in a 100 point game. That is my feeling on most support ships. At higher points, they really shine though.
Your opinion, it's a valid point, but maybe it's more a matter of using/flying it correct. Granted; it's harder tha flying 2 YT's or a TIE swarm
I think with a small base range 1 would be less a problem. It is a problem because of the large base.
And I think Yorr is very useful in 100 point games - because his ability is up to range 2 - so Yorr don't have to be part of the formation to be useful - he just need to be nearby. And that is what I think Jendon is lacking.
Just look at the rebel support ships - they have range 3 for their abilities. And Jendon has only range 1 in his giant flying brick?
I think with a small base range 1 would be less a problem. It is a problem because of the large base.
How so? The large base should be a big asset for something like this. I haven't done the geometry, but the large base should be at least doubling the area covered by the range 1 bubble.
Yup, it's Range 1 area is much larger.
The list I've flown several times and have had a little more than 50/50 win ratio (while having LOADS of fun) is:
Vader's Fist
Jendon with DV, Weapons Engineer, ST-321 and Advanced Sensors
Bounty Hunter with Rebel Captive and APL
2 x Academy Pilots
One needs to slow play the shuttle while you dish out L's to the AP's and the BH beforeturning in towards the enemy that should have arrived by then. This way most or all ships (maybe not Jendon) will have TL + Focus ready for the first round of shooting. If it's against a Swarm (no Shields) it's even more tempting to have Vader choke off a TIE here and there.
The combo of Adv. Sensors and the LAmbda's hovering "move" it excellent and goes in the opposite direction of the many people that favors the Engine upgrade in order to have the Shuttle turning around faster. I try to flank with Jendon and sometimes Im "lucky" to actually tailing my opponent before he turns back onJendon.
But it IS a sluggish ship ;-)
I have been looking at Jendon with ST-321, Weapons engineer, and APL. 3 Aplha squadron and 1 Tie. Perma link below.
Now my question is with this combination, can I target lock two ships at once then pass both off to interceptors? I wish the interceptors were 2 points cheaper to get 4 interceptors in the squad without sacrificing the st-321 and engineer.
Now my question is with this combination, can I target lock two ships at once then pass both off to interceptors?
Edited by ForgottenloreColonel Jendon (26)
Card Text: At the start of the combat phase, you may assign 1 of your blue target lock tokens to a friendly ship at range 1 if it does not have a blue target lock token.
One needs to slow play the shuttle while you dish out L's to the AP's and the BH beforeturning in towards the enemy that should have arrived by then. This way most or all ships (maybe not Jendon) will have TL + Focus ready for the first round of shooting. If it's against a Swarm (no Shields) it's even more tempting to have Vader choke off a TIE here and there.
The combo of Adv. Sensors and the LAmbda's hovering "move" it excellent and goes in the opposite direction of the many people that favors the Engine upgrade in order to have the Shuttle turning around faster. I try to flank with Jendon and sometimes Im "lucky" to actually tailing my opponent before he turns back onJendon.
But it IS a sluggish ship ;-)
I placed 2nd in a tornament last weekend and I successfully ran a slow play with Jendon with the ST-321 title together with Jonus and two bombers. Using advanced sensors and having Jonus and Jendon at the same pilot skill meant that I could stall the shuttle, and still get a TL across the board, while the Bombers moved forwards slowly. By turn two both bombers have TL and by turn three or four they have moved into range to Focus and fire both assault missiles while Jonus have gotten a TL as well to fire his concussion missile or save it for the following rounds.
Jendon + Adv.sensors & ST-321
Jonus + concussion missile
2x Scimitar + assault missile
This build have a bit of psychological warfare in that many of my opponents reacted to Jendon and loosend their formation during deployment or started to slow down their speed when I started to hand out target locks strategically placed to maximise the assault missiles. If my opponent spread out I could focus on one ship with Jonus concussion missile and Jendons three attack dice and then my opponent still had to bunch up as he moved in on me. Spreading out of formation also meant that e.g. Howlrunner was harder to use in the following turns of furball. In one game I had a bomber locked on a ship, since turn one, that my opponent had moved so it was out of range, I still took a focus with the bomber and had Jendon assign it a new juicy target lock to fire the assault missile. Jendon had at least one attack per game where his third attack die made all the difference between no damage and removing the last hullpoint on a ship.
Jendon is by no means bad or useless but you have to be able to follow up an alpha strike with good flying to actually remove ships and to evade firing arcs or end up loosing. The shuttle is a liability if it is the only ship left as it has a really hard time chasing down a ship to nail it.
I used jendon just for the PS, I wanted him to shoot before chewie
as for the ability it can be tricky to get in range 1, im usually just outside of it.
I think he would be better off if he could pass target lock whenever he wanted.
Tried a list with
Jendon + ST-321 + Engines
Jonus + Clusters
2x Scimitar + Clusters
Started with Jendon in a corner facing my opponent with the bombers right beside him bunched together in a small triangle. First two turns were a short 1 ahead, then the bombers sped up on turn 3 to arc into range 2. This setup worked pretty well since the bomber furthest from Jendon gets a lock on turn 1, the next furthest on turn 2, then the closest on turn 3. Plus, all bombers were still in formation so Jonus granted his re-roll ability to the other bombers while all three were focused.
After my initial strike, 2 X-Wings were at 1 hull and one Y-Wing was in really bad shape. His last Y was still at full strength, but the game only lasted about 5 more turns before I mopped everything up. He did manage to get the shuttle though.