Does this diminish the fun at all for our group? Not at all. We cheer for eachother, and loudly, when one of us pulls off something spectacular like a particularly awesome kill against a well-statted foe.

And that's what it boils down to, doesn't it? If we're having fun, we're doing it right. I just hope to Gain The Advantage with this thread and keep my similarly-armed and armored group of 5 entertained.

Our group is currently sitting in the mid 300 to 400 xp range and we definitely can see points where there is a noticeable power change. Specifically with the obvious ones like the Marauder.

Other than that though, the system works on a pretty linear scale and so the math of the xp growth works out to be a fairly easy steady growth trend as well.

The one thing that does change over time is the amount in which strain is a problem. As your dice pool climbs your ability to remove 4-5 strain in a round becomes a more reasonable proposition.

Specifically with the obvious ones like the Marauder.

What is it about the Marauder that is so powerful? Almost everything they have has equivalents in other trees. Consider the Mercenary Soldier:

Point Blank replaces Feral Strength

Side Step replaces Defensive Stance

True Aim replaces Frenzied Attack

Natural Marksman replaces Natural Brawler

Beyond that, the only thing the Marauder really has going for it is a lot of Toughened which can be picked up elsewhere just as easily and Enduring which is a bit harder to acquire. Marauder seems to lack for any unique talents that are terribly exciting. OTOH, something like Mercenary Soldier has Field Commander (and Improved Field Commander) which can be a game changer. For pure damage, Mercenary Soldier has Deadly Accuracy (which can stack with Point Blank) which lets him outdo the Marauder in damage by the end of the tree.

I'm not saying that Marauder isn't a good tree - it is. I just don't think it's above the others in power.

Specifically with the obvious ones like the Marauder.

What is it about the Marauder that is so powerful? Almost everything they have has equivalents in other trees. Consider the Mercenary Soldier:

Point Blank replaces Feral Strength

Side Step replaces Defensive Stance

True Aim replaces Frenzied Attack

Natural Marksman replaces Natural Brawler

Beyond that, the only thing the Marauder really has going for it is a lot of Toughened which can be picked up elsewhere just as easily and Enduring which is a bit harder to acquire. Marauder seems to lack for any unique talents that are terribly exciting. OTOH, something like Mercenary Soldier has Field Commander (and Improved Field Commander) which can be a game changer. For pure damage, Mercenary Soldier has Deadly Accuracy (which can stack with Point Blank) which lets him outdo the Marauder in damage by the end of the tree.

I'm not saying that Marauder isn't a good tree - it is. I just don't think it's above the others in power.

Happy, it isn't so much that it is over powered as it is an unbalancer in group dynamics. If most of the group has lets say Brawn 3 and 2 points of soak from armor, the Marauder is likely to have a Brawn of 4 or 5 and a soak of 8-9, with quite a few more health levels. What it means is when a GM throws out a bad guy to challenge the party, the marauder walks away unscathed, but when they put something out hitting hard enough to hurt the marauder, it puts the other PC's out in a hit.

It honestly isn't terribly exciting its just unbalancing in the way things scale in the game. There are ways around it, it just takes more effort.

OK. The soak monster issue. Seen it play. It can be a problem. It can be a problem when it goes the other way too and some PCs don't have the firepower to make meaningful contributions to a combat.

Specifically with the obvious ones like the Marauder.

What is it about the Marauder that is so powerful? Almost everything they have has equivalents in other trees. Consider the Mercenary Soldier:

Point Blank replaces Feral Strength

Side Step replaces Defensive Stance

True Aim replaces Frenzied Attack

Natural Marksman replaces Natural Brawler

Beyond that, the only thing the Marauder really has going for it is a lot of Toughened which can be picked up elsewhere just as easily and Enduring which is a bit harder to acquire. Marauder seems to lack for any unique talents that are terribly exciting. OTOH, something like Mercenary Soldier has Field Commander (and Improved Field Commander) which can be a game changer. For pure damage, Mercenary Soldier has Deadly Accuracy (which can stack with Point Blank) which lets him outdo the Marauder in damage by the end of the tree.

I'm not saying that Marauder isn't a good tree - it is. I just don't think it's above the others in power.

Happy, it isn't so much that it is over powered as it is an unbalancer in group dynamics. If most of the group has lets say Brawn 3 and 2 points of soak from armor, the Marauder is likely to have a Brawn of 4 or 5 and a soak of 8-9, with quite a few more health levels. What it means is when a GM throws out a bad guy to challenge the party, the marauder walks away unscathed, but when they put something out hitting hard enough to hurt the marauder, it puts the other PC's out in a hit.

It honestly isn't terribly exciting its just unbalancing in the way things scale in the game. There are ways around it, it just takes more effort.

I don't think the marauder in your example is all that bad. A squad of 4 or 5 Stormtroopers should be able to land a good solid hit and potential crit on them.

Happy, it isn't so much that it is over powered as it is an unbalancer in group dynamics. If most of the group has lets say Brawn 3 and 2 points of soak from armor, the Marauder is likely to have a Brawn of 4 or 5 and a soak of 8-9, with quite a few more health levels. What it means is when a GM throws out a bad guy to challenge the party, the marauder walks away unscathed, but when they put something out hitting hard enough to hurt the marauder, it puts the other PC's out in a hit.

It honestly isn't terribly exciting its just unbalancing in the way things scale in the game. There are ways around it, it just takes more effort.

I don't think the marauder in your example is all that bad. A squad of 4 or 5 Stormtroopers should be able to land a good solid hit and potential crit on them.

I know this is a pretty late reply... but you kinda made my point in your response.

Yes a squad of 5 storm troopers would *eventually* wear this character down... and you know what they do to the rest of the party? Drop them all in one hit. That is kinda exactly what I said

Happy, it isn't so much that it is over powered as it is an unbalancer in group dynamics. If most of the group has lets say Brawn 3 and 2 points of soak from armor, the Marauder is likely to have a Brawn of 4 or 5 and a soak of 8-9, with quite a few more health levels. What it means is when a GM throws out a bad guy to challenge the party, the marauder walks away unscathed, but when they put something out hitting hard enough to hurt the marauder, it puts the other PC's out in a hit.

It honestly isn't terribly exciting its just unbalancing in the way things scale in the game. There are ways around it, it just takes more effort.

I don't think the marauder in your example is all that bad. A squad of 4 or 5 Stormtroopers should be able to land a good solid hit and potential crit on them.

I know this is a pretty late reply... but you kinda made my point in your response.

Yes a squad of 5 storm troopers would *eventually* wear this character down... and you know what they do to the rest of the party? Drop them all in one hit. That is kinda exactly what I said

I'm very conservative in the use of House Rules (I avoid them like the Plague) but because I have also noticed this Soak issue in my game one rule I do use is the 1 Damage Point minimum for every hit, I have it as either one HP or one Strain, Player's choice. Basically even if that hit doesn't create enough Damage to exceed a PC's Soak you still suffer some ill effect, either one Strain or HP, and Criticals are possible. You don't add one Damage you just make it one minimum. The only exceptions are Hand-to-Hand Attacks (no weapons) because Armour really does limit the effectiveness of bare fists.

This keeps things a little more dangerous for high Soak PCs and isn't a major burden for lower Soak ones as they tend to have higher Strain values. The best part is that it keeps a sense of danger for everyone without being seen as a penalty for anyone.

the other thing I don't do is use another popular House Rule that has Cover and Armour stack because a high Soak PC in Hvy Armour that also benefits from Cover really does tip the scales too far. The heavily Armoured guy has the benefit of not needing to use Cover to gain that benefit, and thats already a significant advantage in Combat.

In any case it's worked out well because even our Super Soak guy keeps his head down more of the time and everyone feels good about their contribution to combat.

I've posted in other threads on this but there are ways to stop soak guy without overcoming soak with just damage. There are a number of immobilization options that disregard soak and won't kill squishy party members. Things like bola/net launchers. Glope grenades.

Keep in mind: not everyone in your party has super soak (or, do they? Well then!) so your baddies focus on the "easy meat" as most baddies would do anyway. Why would your minions opt to just shoot ineffectively at the tank while they could drop the other 5 guys shooting at them in 1-2 turns? Maybe they can't drop the tank without a house rule, but they sure could call for backup, and with the rest of the party down, who is going to fly the ship/tend to the wounded/fix broken gear? It won't be the tank. And when backup arrives with heavy weapons....

If everyone in your group does have super-soak, then it sounds like your players want to kick some butt, so I say let 'em.

Keep in mind: not everyone in your party has super soak (or, do they? Well then!) so your baddies focus on the "easy meat" as most baddies would do anyway. Why would your minions opt to just shoot ineffectively at the tank while they could drop the other 5 guys shooting at them in 1-2 turns? Maybe they can't drop the tank without a house rule, but they sure could call for backup, and with the rest of the party down, who is going to fly the ship/tend to the wounded/fix broken gear? It won't be the tank. And when backup arrives with heavy weapons....

If everyone in your group does have super-soak, then it sounds like your players want to kick some butt, so I say let 'em.

No! If your tank is using his taunts properly then the NPCs have to attack him. The game needs to have mechanically predictable responses so that the group can drop the boss and grab that loot. That is what the game is all about.

Am I the only person who gets annoyed with the use of MMO terms for RPGs?

I think one of the keys to pushing players to diversify is going to be in forcing the group into situations where they are separated. The problem comes up in this being a terrible idea in, say, a D&D game much of the time. So much so that one player in my group makes an issue out of even the suggestion of splitting up, often browbeating anyone thinking about it into staying with the party.

I've done this very thing before (opposing splitting the party) for non-combat related reasons for one very important fact.

I REALLY hate not doing anything for hours.

Most GMs suck at running split games.

They just do, it's not even a question.

Typically you're talking about waiting a a half hour or more of doing nothing at the table. I was recently in a game where the DM split the players to go on a scouting mission. I was like, ok, fine..two of the players spent about an hour or so doing the scouting.

Then the they come back, and then some geniuses suggest part of the party stay behind in order to 'guard the town' or whatever. I was pretty vehemently opposed at this point- whoever stays behind would essentially get ignored for the rest of the night, and basically spend no time playing the game at all.

If you're going to split the party, be upfront with how much time people are going to get to play, or whether they should just leave for the night.

No! If your tank is using his taunts properly then the NPCs have to attack him. The game needs to have mechanically predictable responses so that the group can drop the boss and grab that loot. That is what the game is all about.

Am I the only person who gets annoyed with the use of MMO terms for RPGs?

Um, what?

[edit]

Actually, I'll entertain the concept that this wasn't a trolling attempt and bite: What MMO terms? I've never played one (not even once!) "Tank?" We used that back in the day well before MMOs, but they've had many different names.

Actually, I'll entertain the concept that this wasn't a trolling attempt and bite: What MMO terms? I've never played one (not even once!) "Tank?" We used that back in the day well before MMOs, but they've had many different names.

It was about 75/25, but I grew up on videogames and didn't start rolling dice until college. To me, "Tank/Healer/DPS" is all MMO.

How am I supposed to know what the kids were calling Paladins back in the 1980s?

Actually, I'll entertain the concept that this wasn't a trolling attempt and bite: What MMO terms? I've never played one (not even once!) "Tank?" We used that back in the day well before MMOs, but they've had many different names.

It was about 75/25, but I grew up on videogames and didn't start rolling dice until college. To me, "Tank/Healer/DPS" is all MMO.

How am I supposed to know what the kids were calling Paladins back in the 1980s?

You ask one of us greybeards!

Not that it matters to me what we call them, as long as people get what I'm saying. Sorry it rubs you the wrong way, buddy!

A friend is a running a long term Saga campaign I frequently just pass out during the session due to the fact that I am a combat oriented character with very little capacity for the deeper mysteries of the universe. Ironically I am a Jedi, however, when I say mysteries I mean it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Our GM actually hates combat so much I think he put things in our way too powerful for us to handle just so we will do our best to avoid it. So I sleep and when I wake up hour or three later I ask what happened get the synopsis and to be honest still have nothing to do. So I go back to sleep. Now part of that was due to the fact I was under a lot of stress and a lot of work and was just plain exhausted all the time. I just got to be honest his story is so convoluted with the big bad so far hidden up the wazu of whatever it is that keeps screwing with us that we will never find it. And I don't care much anymore.

I think one of the keys to pushing players to diversify is going to be in forcing the group into situations where they are separated. The problem comes up in this being a terrible idea in, say, a D&D game much of the time. So much so that one player in my group makes an issue out of even the suggestion of splitting up, often browbeating anyone thinking about it into staying with the party.

I've done this very thing before (opposing splitting the party) for non-combat related reasons for one very important fact.

I REALLY hate not doing anything for hours.

Most GMs suck at running split games.

They just do, it's not even a question.

Typically you're talking about waiting a a half hour or more of doing nothing at the table.

I would wager that it's actually most RPG systems that suck at running split parties. When a combat round is only 6 seconds, it's hard for the half of the party that's drinking cocktails with the Senator's wife to do their encounter (10 rounds per Diplomacy check) when the other half of the party is having a fist-fight in the alleyway behind the cantina. There's pretty much no choice but to have two players go sit on their hands for 30-60 minutes while the "real" game gets played.

In Edge of the Empire, each round is over a minute, combat is decisively quick, and it's actually remarkably easy to run a split party. When I ran Under a Black Sun for the Trandoshan optional encounter I had everyone roll initiative even though only one PC ran after Lar'orrox—everyone else was involved in talking to the owner of The Spyder. It worked perfectly. After a couple rounds went by of gathering info, I mentioned to the players inside that they hadn't seen their friend for a few minutes and should feel nervous. They excused themselves from the conversation and hightailed it outside in time to watch their companion get knocked to the ground by his rival. They entered the fray, dished out some sweet sweet payback, and saved their friend. How cool is that?

Since the initiative slots are fluid from round to round, the ebb and flow of the narrative between action and intrigue meshes perfectly and creates that cinematic feel that this game excels at. If you haven't tried it yet, I recommend doing so.

One doubt, what do you think about put a limit on minion packs like the atribute is the max upgrade level. For example:

A Stormtrooper minion pack (Agi 3) max skill could be 3 proficency. Or the 5 proficency should be correct?

Suggestions?

IF you want to keep minions dangerous enough stick to the original skill-rule for minion group. Stormtroopers are rather strong minions with AG/BR 3 and 5 soak, but lesser minions usually only have 2 in their attribute and would really suck if they are limited to just YY. With YYYGGB vs PP a group of 5 Stormtroopers is dangerous for every character, even characters with a few hundred XPs.*

*At least the way i use them as the GM.

Oh my gosh, I'm useless! XD

I have re-readed minon group description and they add Ranks NOT Upgrades. You are absolutelly right segara82!

I though than, for example, 6 Stormtroopers would be 5 Proficency instead YYYGG.

Thank you, my players would be happy XD

A friend is a running a long term Saga campaign [...] I just got to be honest his story is so convoluted with the big bad so far hidden up the wazu of whatever it is that keeps screwing with us that we will never find it. And I don't care much anymore.

Sounds like it's not a lot of fun. That's why you're there, right?

A friend is a running a long term Saga campaign [...] I just got to be honest his story is so convoluted with the big bad so far hidden up the wazu of whatever it is that keeps screwing with us that we will never find it. And I don't care much anymore.

Sounds like it's not a lot of fun. That's why you're there, right?

Lol yeah. Seems like there's no reason to be there. Is there a girl involved?