This is how we talk about star wars these days.. how much we don't like this or that...

This topic was about how cool season 6 of the Clone Wars was now its about GL.

love and hate whatever you want about star wars just show some respect to the guy,

without his ideas there wouldn't be something to be bitchin about, or excited about in the first place.

For me the series revolving around 5s were the best, followed by the yoda arc you mention. I truly wish Disney had brought this series on board and allowed it to continue, as it was doing a phenomenal job of linking characters and events, as well as explaining some of the behind the scenes stuff from the movies (like why did all the clones follow 66). I wish it would have had the time to tie up Maul, and explain what happened to Rex and Ahsoka (my favorite two characters in the series). I personally think Rex became disillusioned with the upcoming events, got "fixed", and took off with Ahsoka (my own happy story book ending).
It's like it was just getting to the heart of things...
While I have some hope for Rebels, it appears they are going to dumb it down, for the younger kids. I was hoping that when they made mention of the start of the Rebels, we would be getting Mon Mothma, Crix, Bail, etc... as younger versions and the start of the rebellion as we know it. That would have been awesome. The idea of following around some 10 year old just doesn't appeal to me all that much. Though I'll watch it in hopes to learn other snippets of the universe.

Thanks for getting this back to the Clone Wars. We all have our opinions of EU, GL, and the GFFA! And everything thing else. But I am here to tell you only my opinions are right.

When I heard about this being about a 14 year girl Padawan, I was thinking oh boy, here we go...

Ashoka turned out to be my favorite character, and I was also lucky enough to meet Ashley Eckstein, who is an amazing person.

Who would have thought a movie about 18 year old kid who farms on sand would have been culturally shifting event?

So gong off topic to Rebels real quick...

Now we have another 14 year old who is in the limelight. Ezra happens to be the about same age as Luke is right now in the story, 5 BBY.

George is fascinated with how young minds can shift and mold the current "old people" world. He is a product of the 60's and 70's when a cultural shift occurred in Hollywood, with the younger generation taking over, reforming the movie industry. Growing up in the 50's with the "Rebel" youth, the 60's with the civil rights movement, 'Nam, government protests. I feel it is no wonder he wants to tell the story of young people, for young people. I grew up with the OT, and as I grew up, I became cynical, darker, moodier, and perhaps jaded, like so many other children of the 80's and 90's with our teen angst. I grew up, Star Wars didn't.

So I am very ecstatic that I get to watch the Clone Wars and Rebels with my kid glasses on. For George to once again tell me his stories of his GFFA.

I personally think Lucas takes the young minds thing way too far. Stories about how young minds can shift old ones is fine but that doesn't mean nine year olds belong in fighter cockpits or 14 year olds belong ruling planets or running around as commanders in armies.

I could probably forgive the above if the stories were of interest to me though. My forite parts of Star Wars have always been the space battles since I first watched the OT when I was three. Most of the ones in the PT were disappointing, though I think Coruscant was very good though it would have been much better if they had a main character participating in the space battle while Anakin and ObiWan were rampaging through the Invisible Hand but the makeup of the PT Main Cast made that basically impossible.

Seasons One and Two of the Clone Wars had some great space battles but after that the number dwindled with few or no space battle focused episodes, and even episodes with space battles setting up other events becoming rarer as time passed.

I hope that Rebels will at least have some good fighter or fighter and freighter engagements since I'm pretty certain that at the point the series takes place the rebels have few or no capital ships. They might have some corvettes, frigates, or small cruisers for capship fights but I wouldn't bet on them appearing though I might be pleasantly surprised.

I finished a long session of the whole 6. season. I liked the 5s arc the best, although the chip-thing made me laugh at points.

I will kinda miss this show, but i got the parts that interest me the most on DVD.

Rebels will get it's fair chance, so i'll wait for it to come out.

As far as the kids thing ... depends largely on the culture. Even here on earth we had enough parts were kids 12-13 years old were expected to think and act like grown-ups. A princess (thats a birth-thing, not election based ... who came up with that?) at that age can be in the tight spot that Episode I showed. Sure, her advisors would talk her ears off, but it would still be her decision.

I personally think Lucas takes the young minds thing way too far. Stories about how young minds can shift old ones is fine but that doesn't mean nine year olds belong in fighter cockpits or 14 year olds belong ruling planets or running around as commanders in armies.

Thank goodness there have been no real life 10 year old kings. Because that would be unbelievable, to have a ruler that young. Yup, never happened.

Oh Desslok, you and your facts.

Haven't you learned yet that they have no place in internet discusions?

I personally think Lucas takes the young minds thing way too far. Stories about how young minds can shift old ones is fine but that doesn't mean nine year olds belong in fighter cockpits or 14 year olds belong ruling planets or running around as commanders in armies.

Thank goodness there have been no real life 10 year old kings. Because that would be unbelievable, to have a ruler that young. Yup, never happened.

How many of them were elected and personally held power (rather than had a regent) prior to their age of majority? These points matter if we're trying to make a fair comparison.

I've come up with a principle that I find very helpful when considering stuff like "Is it plausible that a planet would elect a 14-year-old queen?"

I call it the Goldilocks Principle.

When you're reading the story of Goldilocks, bears live in a house and make porridge.

But bears don't really live in houses and make porridge!

Yet, in the story of Goldilocks, they DO. When Goldilocks goes into the house, she doesn't say, "OH crap there are bears talking how can this be!" It is just a fact of nature in Goldilocks' story.

A fantasy world like Star Wars has its own internal logic, but it doesn't have to track perfectly with the way our logic works.

If they can program C3P0 to speak 'Basic', why can't they program R2D2 to speak 'Basic'? Because bears live in a house and make porridge.

Why would a planet elect a 14-year-old Queen? Because bears live in a house and make porridge.

Why can spaceships fly through space far faster than the speed of light? Because bears and porridge.

Why can people levitate stuff and shoot lightning from their hands? Because bears and porridge.

It really doesn't have to be that complex. The movies have a world and that world belongs to the movies more than it does to our reality. Those are just the rules.

I guess I am in the minority. I hated Season 6. It seems Lucas needed to once again poop on the Force before he left. More about Midichlorians? Jar Jar Returns? with ROMANCE?!

Mortifying.

At least there are good parts to this whole show... Like Finale to Season 5. I hope this is the nail in the coffin of this whole hideous era. I would be fine if there was never a single thing from this whole era.

How many of them were elected and personally held power (rather than had a regent) prior to their age of majority? These points matter if we're trying to make a fair comparison.

Out of a population of trillions, you're going to get a few Mozarts. This one happened to play politics instead of the piano.

How many of them were elected and personally held power (rather than had a regent) prior to their age of majority? These points matter if we're trying to make a fair comparison.

Well, Michael I of Russia was 17 when he was elected Tsar in 1613 - he was the youngest I could find, but then the list of elected monarchs is pretty small regardless of age. As far as young rulers holding power, its not unheard of. Sure Tut had his advisers and regents, but he also wielded his power and implemented social change.

So rare? Sure. Unheard of? Not really - and when you have a whole galaxy to draw on where weird and unusual things happen all the time, a 14 year old queen isn't that big of a stretch.

Especially since it was revealed in Darth Plagueis that Palpatine helped Padme get elected for his own purposes

Hmm, I never heard anyone crying before about a Senator that was only 18 years old. Let's all go throw out A New Hope for that one! In the US, you can't even have a senator that young. Minimum age is 30. If we are going to go around and throw the absurd around as to why people don't like PT, or CW or now Rebels, then perhaps we should start at the beginning? Sound in space! Absurd! That has been proven as a scientific fact that you can not hear sound in the vacuum of space! A glowing light stick, where the light either magically stops, or some how bends back around on its self!? Really!? We could keep going...

I feel throwing the "absurd" around to make a point is pretty absurd. Everyone has the rights to their opinions, and if you don't like the Clone Wars, don't watch it. If you don't like the prequels, don't watch them. If you don't like the original trilogy, don't watch them. But to these haters out there, why is it you even like Star Wars? I do admit, the prequels were definitely not what I had in mind when they came out. I still don't love them. But to say George ruined your movies, or your view of something that he created is just pretty arrogant. To all the faceless, nameless people saying that he has ruined his own creation, my only retort is that for better or worse, you ***** about it on a Role Playing Game Forum, while he is a multi-Billionaire. Instead of bitching about how much the movies of his time sucked, he went out and made better ones. I would like to see you do better. Sorry for my rant. I still love all you guys/girls out there.

Now back to our show.

My opinion of season 6 is kinda like this it started out great with 5's arc and after that i didn't like the rest of it. I understand the ending of it but im still left with the feeling ..... okay thats it? Dunno was hoping for more or it just didnt grab me like season 4-5

Yeah, the "depth' and "breadth" of the Star Wars Universe? That come's almost entirely from the EU. For that matter I sincerely doubt most of what made the Original Trilogy great actually cane from Lucas himself.

What made the OT in your mind?

GL conceived it, wrote it, negotiated the contract with the studio and directed it, made the decisions about it. Financed Empire himself, hired Kurtz and Kasdan, was in on the draft for it. So he had quite a bit to do with things directly and indirectly.

Additionally Kurtz did zero work in developing the story, what he did do is allow Kershner to shoot the film the way he wanted to, but this had a bad side effect... The production went millions of dollars over budget and weeks behind schedule requiring Lucas to go back to Fox to help him secure more funding for the film. He eventually was forced to give Fox some profit concessions and extended distribution rights. Kurtz was eventually fired (or resigned depending on who you ask) in November of 79. Howard Kazanjian was brought in to help wrap up post production and get things back on schedule.

I'd really recommend you read JW Rinzler's Making of Empire book. It's Very illuminating, and shows how involved Lucas was in the production.

Yancy

Hmm, I never heard anyone crying before about a Senator that was only 18 years old. Let's all go throw out A New Hope for that one! In the US, you can't even have a senator that young. Minimum age is 30. If we are going to go around and throw the absurd around as to why people don't like PT, or CW or now Rebels, then perhaps we should start at the beginning? Sound in space! Absurd! That has been proven as a scientific fact that you can not hear sound in the vacuum of space! A glowing light stick, where the light either magically stops, or some how bends back around on its self!? Really!? We could keep going...

I feel throwing the "absurd" around to make a point is pretty absurd. Everyone has the rights to their opinions, and if you don't like the Clone Wars, don't watch it. If you don't like the prequels, don't watch them. If you don't like the original trilogy, don't watch them. But to these haters out there, why is it you even like Star Wars? I do admit, the prequels were definitely not what I had in mind when they came out. I still don't love them. But to say George ruined your movies, or your view of something that he created is just pretty arrogant. To all the faceless, nameless people saying that he has ruined his own creation, my only retort is that for better or worse, you ***** about it on a Role Playing Game Forum, while he is a multi-Billionaire. Instead of bitching about how much the movies of his time sucked, he went out and made better ones. I would like to see you do better. Sorry for my rant. I still love all you guys/girls out there.

Now back to our show.

I rewached Episode I this morning and in retrospect Padme wasn't that bad. Making Anakin only nine though...

While I feel the actor mostly did a great job of acting like a nine year old would in Anakin's place IMO a nine year old in the cockpit of a starfighter equals very high levels of annoyance for me as a viewer. Some of his lines in the space battle almost make me want to cry. (Particularly the ones involving spinning and podracing.)

As for the Clone Wars my favorite parts of Star Wars have always been the space battles, and while the early seasons had enough to keep me entertained around season three the number of space battle focused episodes plummeted as did the number of episodes using space battles as part of the main plot's set up or resolution, though the latter didn't fall as far.

When Trench's return was announced my hopes soared as I was hoping for an epic third and final showdown between Trench and Yularen. I haven't watched season six yet but from the episode descriptions I'm pretty sure that was not what happened in Trench's reappearance.

From my understanding of how things were "supposed" to work out, was that Trench had/has a bigger role to play in the "complete" season 6. Since they only made half of the shows, the rest of Trench got scrapped. It was mentioned at one time that he was to be the mastermind of the CIS invasion of Coruscant, and that either right before or early in the battle he was die because we all know that Papa Palpy doesn't like to leave loose ends around. It was also hinted by the CW crew, I think Ashley and Dave, that the end of Season 5 was not meant to be that, that they had to bring those episodes in from season 6. They had to push the timeline up becuase of the show being unexpectedly cancelled. So in reality Season 6 is just not that. It is the Lost Missions.

I loved the Jar-Jar and Mace episodes. It showed that Jar-Jar is not the complete idiot that everyone takes him for, that he can be somewhat helpful, and that the Jedi are very arrogant in their ways and views of the galaxy around them. When a planetary leader asks for a representative to come alone, and the Jedi know they are not liked by these people...well, hey let's go ahead and send a Jedi master along anyway...and disrespect these people even more because we are the Jedi and we know best. It helps bring home the fact that the were overstepping thier boundaries in many ways, and that also helped the fact that they were so distrusted and forgotten about by the time of Luke and Han. When watching A New Hope in the eighties, I got the feeling that the clone wars were 40-50 years before hand. Not 20. I felt like the clone wars were Han and Luke's grandparents war, not thier parents war. I looked at it like when I was a kid in the 80's, it was WWII, not 'Nam. How was it so quick for everyone to dismiss the power of the force and the Jedi?

In the end Mace and the Jedi were right about sending help with Jar-Jar, but once again, they went about it the wrong way. Even though they won, they still lost the view of those people. Yes the queen did mention that they could start rebuilding their relationship, but to those people they were interlopers that were not welcome, and cemented the fact that the Jedi have to intervene in everything.

So I guess because Jar-Jar Binks was involved, it is time to just hate these episodes, well, because we all have to hate Jar-Jar and Geoerge for running my view of my movies. I am willing to bet a chocolate chip cookie that very few has looked at these episodes with any depth, like I just did. We just see Jar-Jar, and let our prejudices take over, and can't except the fact that his stories can be relevant.

I also like how these epidodes cemented the fact that Mother Talzin does not use the Force. It is some other kind of Magic in the Universe. So for me, these episodes were very fun, and had that Temple of Doom feel to them, and I loved them.

I remember when I first tried to watch CW at the dormitory and I have not finished first season out disgust. I gave it chance few months ago and devoured it in a week. And now I am positively saddened that Lost Missions are the end. What happened to Darth Maul? Asajj Ventress? Hell, Ahsoka (I loathed her with passion of ungrateful SW fan, but at the end of season 5 I realised she is rather cool character with more interesting growing-up development than many other SW characters)? CW also showed me, that main problem with prequel Anakin is Hayden Christensen

I wonder if some characters will at least show up in Rebels.

Sigh, at least its out of George's hands now

Who's going to drive that now, Disney? It'll be driven by marketing, who will keep finding uber-weapons of the week and ways to clone the Emperor.

You mean like the sun crusher, world devastators and eclipse? How would disney be any different than When George was in charge?

I'm going to wait and see what Rebels is like before I **** or praise Disney. Disney is doing well with Marvel, so I'm hopeful. They are also the company that brought a cool ride into hollywood and made a really fun movie - i reference the First Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

Back to the clone wars though, I was really happy with the first and last story arcs. The first explains order 66, and the latter I persinally found trivializes the importance of midichlorians - I mean that in good way. The mystical nature and the scientific 'fact' were made to co-exist, with the mysticism being in the forefront. As to changes to EU lore... I am indifferent to it. Clone Wars has already changed lots and I'm fine with that. You want to keep calling it Korriban fine. Moriband works just as well for me. In fact, I wish the clone wars would have been able to rewrite the lore in such a way to invalidate the entire kotor era, but alas it could not.

R2Builder, I didn't mind the Jar-Jar episode. If anything JarJar is the awkward uncoordinated outcast, that many a young star wars fan, such as myself, was and that even such a clutz can prove to have merrit.

I'd like to think that after the clone wars ended, JarJar left to go to Bardotta and settled down with the queen.

JarJar in the clone wars was different than JarJar in the first movie.

Hey Blasted, thanks for the great comments and insight. Just to be clear with everyone, I don't expect everyone to love the Clone Wars, or the new episodes, or even Jar Jar. It is just so many, so quick to jump on that I have to hate JarJar bandwagon with out looking at anything else. Now, again, I have no great super love for the prequels, and there is a ton I wish they wouldn't have done, and even changed some of the actors involved. But I am very pleased and grateful that we had the Clone Wars every week for over 5 years.

As a side note, for those talking about bad acting, what about Luke on Dagobah, Yoda says "you feel like what?" And Luke says "like we're being watched". Some of the worst of the trilogy.

Just one to grow on.

Hayden Christensen can be problematic at times, but his performance in AOTC is nowhere close to being the worst in the entire Saga. I really suggest people go back and closely watch Harrison Ford's clearly contractually obligated performance in ROTJ. He's dreadful. His delivery is almost always flat and it's clear he stopped caring about Solo after he landed the Indiana Jones gig. Some classic lines:

C-3PO: R2 can find no trace of Princess leia

Ford tries to look souful and caring, it's clear he's collecting a check here... it's painfully forced and he gives probably the WORST delivery of any line in Star Wars.

Han: I hope she's alright.

Watch Ford and Fisher try to navigate, painfully I might add, the dialog in the Ewok village following Luke's departure.

Han: You could tell Luke. Is that who you could tell?

I've seen better performances in a high school drama production. Even the scene between Lando and Han about the Falcon is just bad... and it's not Billy Dee's fault. Billy is trying to give energy to the scene and Ford just simply drags the scene down trying to be comedic, but generally coming across as forced.

Oh sure there are scenes here or there where Ford is gold, but by and large it's obvious Ford stopped caring. He was big time now and he didn't need Star Wars anymore, besides he wasn't the star of the picture.

Yancy

Everyone is down on E1-E3 for the acting, but seem to overlook that aside from Cushing and Guinness, there wasn't a lot going on under the acting hood. Fisher was coked out of her mind most of the time - when she wasn't busy deciding what accent to use for that scene and Hamill was only slightly less annoying that Hayden Christensen. Ford was the best of the lot but he was still pretty raw (and, as noted above, was phoning it in for Jedi).

Ford said he wanted Solo to die in RotJ in a interview, if I remember correctly. Hopefully Fisher, Hamill and Ford won't be as burned out for 7 as they were for Jedi (my hopes aren't too high though...)

Also the worst line delivered in the entire Star Wars saga has got to be "NOOOOOOO!" line delivered by the great and talented James Earl Jones, every line he had in the OT was gold though...

SPOILERS BELOW

I gotta say after watching the Jar Jar arc that scene in the temple really makes me want to run an epic battle on a huge

staircase with no railing and enemies coming from top and bottom, I think my players would really enjoy that... that scene had a cool swashbuckling feel to it.

Also I'm probably alone in this thought here, but when Yoda was told: "there was another Skywalker," my first thought wasn't that they were talking about Luke or Leia but maybe Shmi's sister/brother/twin, or maybe(huge maybe) even Anakin's long lost twin... I know it's NOT what they were talking about with the baby crying in the back round and what not, it was just the first thing I thought of.... mostly because Yoda drops that line in Empire and when he did he wasn't talking about Leia originally, but Luke's yet to be seen sister (which Lucas changed to Leia later).

Now hear me out (and I know this is crazy but..) at the end of TCW if they weren't talking about Anakin's children to Yoda, then in Empire Yoda is still talking about a yet to seen Skywalker(a cousin or uncle/aunt now instead of Luke's sister)

These were also Yoda's dying words in Jedi and when Luke told them to Obi Wan, Obi Wan(who knew of Leia) explained to Luke that Yoda was talking about his sister. Honestly Obi Wan could have been lying to Luke again.. (Darth Vader killed your father....) Crazy I know...

END SPOILERS