The Pistol Grip attachment changes the skill used on the weapon it's attached to from Ranged (Heavy) to Ranged (Light). Am I correct that this only changes the skill used and does not actually make the weapon into a Ranged (Light) weapon? This is important when using the weapon while Engaged and for determining what other attachments can be placed on the weapon.

For example, a Blaster Rifle with the Pistol Grip attachment uses Ranged (Light) for the skill check, reduces range to Medium, and adds a Setback die if firing one-handed. If the character is Engaged, is it still treated as a Ranged (Heavy) weapon for determining Difficulty (and whether it would benefit from a Forearm Grip - assuming it's not being used one-handed)? Likewise, the Blaster Rifle with the Pistol Grip attachment can still use attachments appropriate for Blaster Rifles (so long as they do not add Cumbersome, which would disallow the Pistol Grip), right?

I would say no it would be considered light the modification is making it a light weapon.

Tricky one...

I'm assuming that changing the skill you use effectively changes the weapon as well, it's essentially cutting down this...

Into this:

Which, while ridiculous looking, indeed seems easier to aim up close (I would assume anyway, I own something like the above, but the "pistol" always seemed a little silly to me... but I suppose there's a demand for it that I just don't understand)

As for the additional attachments, just looking through what's available, I'm thinking that it works with anything that works with "Ranged (Light) weapons) or "Blaster Rifles." You'll possibly end up with some crazy combos, but offhand I can't think of anything too nuts as the sillier it gets the nastier the drawbacks usually apply as well...

I think a very simple rule is the "engaged" penalty is driven by the skill used. In the OP question the modification changes it to ranged light, therefore it's a ranged light penalty.

I think in combat, it'd still be counted as a ranged light weapon. Don't forget that doing this automatically adds a setback dice when firing one-handed. However, for the purposes of modification, it'd still be classified as a blaster rifle, because it's the nature of the weapon itself, not the skill used to fire it... but yes, if it makes it cumbersome after the fact, then I'd imagine it negates the benefit of the pistol grip.

Tricky one...

I'm assuming that changing the skill you use effectively changes the weapon as well, it's essentially cutting down this...

Into this:

Which, while ridiculous looking, indeed seems easier to aim up close (I would assume anyway, I own something like the above, but the "pistol" always seemed a little silly to me... but I suppose there's a demand for it that I just don't understand)

As for the additional attachments, just looking through what's available, I'm thinking that it works with anything that works with "Ranged (Light) weapons) or "Blaster Rifles." You'll possibly end up with some crazy combos, but offhand I can't think of anything too nuts as the sillier it gets the nastier the drawbacks usually apply as well...

Both of those weapons feature a pistol grip.

The second has the stock and barrel cut down, but the grips on the two weapons are nearly identical. The models are a bit different, but from a gameplay perspective those two grips are the same.

Depending on who you are asking everything B-E might qualify as a "pistol-grip".

I think that RAI is more torwards the E, a fully detached grip. I don't know that a detached grip really makes enough of a difference to change the skill to Ranged Light, but whatever.

I certainly think that the penalties for Engaged are more about the bulk and size of the weapon rather than the style of grip and might therefore argue that a rifle with a pistol grip still should suffer the penalty in Engaged that a rifle always suffers. But that's up to you and your GM I suppose.

Tricky one...

I'm assuming that changing the skill you use effectively changes the weapon as well, it's essentially cutting down this...

Into this:

Which, while ridiculous looking, indeed seems easier to aim up close (I would assume anyway, I own something like the above, but the "pistol" always seemed a little silly to me... but I suppose there's a demand for it that I just don't understand)

As for the additional attachments, just looking through what's available, I'm thinking that it works with anything that works with "Ranged (Light) weapons) or "Blaster Rifles." You'll possibly end up with some crazy combos, but offhand I can't think of anything too nuts as the sillier it gets the nastier the drawbacks usually apply as well...

Both of those weapons feature a pistol grip.

The second has the stock and barrel cut down, but the grips on the two weapons are nearly identical. The models are a bit different, but from a gameplay perspective those two grips are the same.

Depending on who you are asking everything B-E might qualify as a "pistol-grip".

I think that RAI is more torwards the E, a fully detached grip. I don't know that a detached grip really makes enough of a difference to change the skill to Ranged Light, but whatever.

I certainly think that the penalties for Engaged are more about the bulk and size of the weapon rather than the style of grip and might therefore argue that a rifle with a pistol grip still should suffer the penalty in Engaged that a rifle always suffers. But that's up to you and your GM I suppose.

Despite the name, there is more to the Pistol Grip attachment (note that I capitalized it to call it out) than just having a pistol grip. It specifically makes the weapon compatible for one-handed use.

Both of those weapons feature a pistol grip.

The second has the stock and barrel cut down, but the grips on the two weapons are nearly identical. The models are a bit different, but from a gameplay perspective those two grips are the same.

Incorrect.

If you read the attachment description on pg 52 it does state that plenty of rifles already have a "pistol grip", and the attachment is the additional mods needed to allow it to be fired with one hand.

So while many of your examples have a "pistol grip," in game terms none of them have the "pistol grip attachment" because the size and fixed stock still require them to be fired with two hands.

I agree it's a somewhat inaccurate name for the attachment though. "Pistol grips" are pretty common so something like "Pistol conversion kit" might have been a more accurate name for the attachment.

Both of those weapons feature a pistol grip.

The second has the stock and barrel cut down, but the grips on the two weapons are nearly identical. The models are a bit different, but from a gameplay perspective those two grips are the same.

Incorrect.

If you read the attachment description on pg 52 it does state that plenty of rifles already have a "pistol grip", and the attachment is the additional mods needed to allow it to be fired with one hand.

So while many of your examples have a "pistol grip," in game terms none of them have the "pistol grip attachment" because the size and fixed stock still require them to be fired with two hands.

I agree it's a somewhat inaccurate name for the attachment though. "Pistol grips" are pretty common so something like "Pistol conversion kit" might have been a more accurate name for the attachment.

Well, I don't have the book in front of me and I've always thought you to be on the up and up around the forum so I'll take your word on it with the text, but assuming that's the case FFG really botched up the attachment name for this one.

Pistol Grip weapon attachments/upgrades certainly seem to cause a lot of confusion (I'm particularly looking at you, 40K RPG lines). So much confusion that it now has migrated to SW: EoE.

I'll be making a small note to change the terminology of "Pistol Grip" to "Cut Down", or something similar. Simply put, Cut Down is not an "attachment", rather it is a "reconfiguration" modification that specifically facilitates one-handed use of the weapon. It was a typical double-barreled shotgun, but now it's Mad Max's sawed-off sidearm.

Yeah, firearms are kinda niche, so terminology gets jumbled all too often.

The "Spare Clip Talent" still bothers me... (seriously, was "Spare Ammo" already taken, or "Power Pack"? I don't think there's been a serious firearm that used a clip since WWII. Only exception being the strippers some modern ammo comes on to make loading the magazine a little faster...)

I like to point out that, just because it has the Pistol Grip attachment and uses Ranged (Light), it can still be used with two hands to avoid the Setback die. You can also still use the Forearm Grip with it, but it's basic effect won't benefit you since the weapon no longer counts as Ranged (Heavy). However, you can still benefit from the Mods on the Forearm Grip.

Given the drawbacks already built into the Pistol Grip (reduced range, setback die if used one-handed), I'd say that it's treated the same as any other Ranged (Light) weapon when attacking an Engaged target, in that the shooter only rolls 2 difficulty instead of the 3 difficulty they'd get from using a Ranged (Heavy) weapon.

Of course, there's the question of "is the shooter forced to always use Ranged (Light) when attacking with a Pistol Grip weapon?" but at the moment that's for the individual GM to decide.

Tricky one...

I'm assuming that changing the skill you use effectively changes the weapon as well, it's essentially cutting down this...

Into this:

That may not be the best example. The firearm on the top is (presumably) a .223/5.56 caliber rifle, while the firearm on the bottom is designed to fire the far less powerful .22 caliber round.

A true "AR Pistol" is going to have the stock removed but still possess a buffer tube due to the distance that the bolt carrier group needs to travel during the firing cycle. (Pictured below: an AR pattern rifle, carbine, and pistol from some stranger's Photobucket account)

I never saw the appeal (why not just use a dedicated pistol?) but I think for some people it's just a legal means of getting around the capricious and largely arbitrary barrel length requirements of the NFA. Since the National Firearms Act of 1934 doesn't exist in the GFFA, I could only speculate as to the motivations of someone who would want to modify a blaster in such a manner.

Yeah, firearms are kinda niche, so terminology gets jumbled all too often.

The "Spare Clip Talent" still bothers me... (seriously, was "Spare Ammo" already taken, or "Power Pack"? I don't think there's been a serious firearm that used a clip since WWII. Only exception being the strippers some modern ammo comes on to make loading the magazine a little faster...)

The name of the "spare clip" talent bothered me too. I even submitted feedback on that during the beta. In fact, I specifically suggested "spare ammo" as an alternate name for the talent since even in-universe, blaster power-packs are not generally referred to as "clips."

The motivation for making this modification in a GFFA is obviously to have a Ranged (Light) weapon with base damage 9. There's also the added benefit of having the option to use it one-handed as well as some great attachments that fit carbines and rifles.

Yeah, firearms are kinda niche, so terminology gets jumbled all too often.

The "Spare Clip Talent" still bothers me... (seriously, was "Spare Ammo" already taken, or "Power Pack"? I don't think there's been a serious firearm that used a clip since WWII. Only exception being the strippers some modern ammo comes on to make loading the magazine a little faster...)

That was some bull too. Blaster weapons use some sort of energy cell. Why would you not just call it "ammo"? It's a better term and easily more catch-all. I could see slugthrowers using a clip potentially, but probably not all of them. I also kind of just accepted that one though because that's what everyone calls a magazine. I've just jaded on it at this point. I like the idea of calling it something like "cut down" much better. It really describes what you are doing more accurately, but I guess it's too late now. What's printed is printed.

Does Pistol Grip use up more hardpoints than Forearm Grip? If not it seems you're getting Forearm Grip's advantage for free.

Does Pistol Grip use up more hardpoints than Forearm Grip? If not it seems you're getting Forearm Grip's advantage for free.

No. They both use 1. However, there are no Mods for Pistol Grip, and the Mods for Forearm Grip are pretty nice. Also, the Forearm Grip is cheaper (250 credits instead of 400 credits).

Does Pistol Grip use up more hardpoints than Forearm Grip? If not it seems you're getting Forearm Grip's advantage for free.

No. They both use 1. However, there are no Mods for Pistol Grip, and the Mods for Forearm Grip are pretty nice. Also, the Forearm Grip is cheaper (250 credits instead of 400 credits).

With the Pistol Grip's disadvantages it probably needs more love then. Yeah, good up-close, I'd say.

Does Pistol Grip use up more hardpoints than Forearm Grip? If not it seems you're getting Forearm Grip's advantage for free.

No. They both use 1. However, there are no Mods for Pistol Grip, and the Mods for Forearm Grip are pretty nice. Also, the Forearm Grip is cheaper (250 credits instead of 400 credits).

With the Pistol Grip's disadvantages it probably needs more love then. Yeah, good up-close, I'd say.

The big thing with the Pistol Grip is not having to have Ranged (Heavy) training to be able to pack heavy firepower. I think it has plenty of love. There's no reason you can't add both grips for all the fun.

They really should have changed the name to something other then Pistol Grip if that is not really what it was all about.

Looking at the changes to the M4 above, that completely makes sense that in game terms it was modified from a Heavy weapon to a Light weapon. The problem for many of us is both weapons still have a Pistol Grip. The Light version also is Stockless and has a Shortened Barrel. All of that together makes it a Light weapon to me. The problem is those other things I just described could also be attachments. It would almost be more realistic that if you attached X amount of certain attachments you get the added bonus of the weapon being transformed into a Light weapon. That is of course tedious for rules sake.

Back to Pistol Grip. It's the name that is bothering some of us who know something about weapons due to profession or hobby. A simpler term that meant, "modified to make it a light weapon", without using a term that most of those weapons already have would be more appropriate. Perhaps there isn't such a term and thus we are left with saying a Pistol Grip was added, plus some "other" stuff, when the examples we have of blasters in Star Wars all have a pistol grip from the start.

A simpler term that meant, "modified to make it a light weapon", without using a term that most of those weapons already have would be more appropriate. Perhaps there isn't such a term and thus we are left with saying a Pistol Grip was added, plus some "other" stuff, when the examples we have of blasters in Star Wars all have a pistol grip from the start.

A term like "Compact" might be just right. I would think that "Compact Blaster Carbine" tells us more accurately what we're dealing with than "Blaster Carbine with Pistol Grip" does.

A simpler term that meant, "modified to make it a light weapon", without using a term that most of those weapons already have would be more appropriate. Perhaps there isn't such a term and thus we are left with saying a Pistol Grip was added, plus some "other" stuff, when the examples we have of blasters in Star Wars all have a pistol grip from the start.

A term like "Compact" might be just right. I would think that "Compact Blaster Carbine" tells us more accurately what we're dealing with than "Blaster Carbine with Pistol Grip" does.

Works for me.

A simpler term that meant, "modified to make it a light weapon", without using a term that most of those weapons already have would be more appropriate. Perhaps there isn't such a term and thus we are left with saying a Pistol Grip was added, plus some "other" stuff, when the examples we have of blasters in Star Wars all have a pistol grip from the start.

A term like "Compact" might be just right. I would think that "Compact Blaster Carbine" tells us more accurately what we're dealing with than "Blaster Carbine with Pistol Grip" does.

Great idea, you should work for FFG