Yeah I meant 4 moves, not 3. Can't count.

Almost all the ships have four, curse my math. 1 straight and banks, and 2 straight.

The TIE has 4, but they're faster. The Bomber has 5 (which is weird) and then the Interceptor 7 and A-wing, 8.

I also apparently forgot the Y-wing (which only has two - 1 and 2 straight - greens) existed.

I dont think anyone is arguing that turrets are bad for interceptors. What I,and imo several others, are arguing is that the new stuff will see less play than you expect and have less impact than you are claiming.

The droid is unique. if its a problem, then kill it. on an X thats 5hp in most cases. On a Y its much less of an issue since you should be able to get away from it.

The Xs will have to be shoe-horned into lists and none of them are as bad as many people are making them out to be. Sure Porkins CAN K-turn every turn. Until he kills himself. Sure, Hobbie CAN get around stress, but not every turn.

And I am asserting that turrets are being seen less often now, and I expect that it will slow even further the more ships they put out.

When you add all of that up, it boggles my mind that INT pilots are upset.

How much play am I expecting? How much an impact am I expecting? Please tell me before you read on.

I am expecting them to get played. They could show up in 1/10 rebel lists and that still makes it less viable to run interceptors. Once wave 4 hits you have these xwing pilots, a new missile carrier, and another astromech carrier and they'll see play REGARDLESS of being a hard counter to interceptors.

I am expecting them to impact the metagame. Most posters have described how they plan on using and abusing these new combos. These new combos are good on their own and will be used regardless of the interceptors role in the meta. Because there are MORE hard counters in the meta, interceptors will be less viable.

It's mind boggling that you do not see that these new options will see play because they are good, not because they are interceptor counters...they just happen to be really good interceptor counters.

I can appreciate an intelligent discussion, as opposed to random dial-bashing being tossed in offhandedly somehow in a discussion about PTL vs Stress.

I don't know, I guess with that ship, I tend to look at the dial a little differently. Oddly enough I think it's the red moves, as you implied, which make it the target of a lot of grief. If you took those off the dial entirely (minus the 2k, of course) I think it actually gets a lot less vitriol.

Look at just those for a second; green 1 straight and banks, green 2 straight, white banks and turn, white 3 straight, and it's a slow but not bad dial. I tend to think of them as almost being bonus moves that come with a bit of a cost, since so many people avoid using them entirely.

Which on a side note, I've always found a bit odd. Nobody (ignoring again the added stress options for a moment) thinks twice about stressing on a k-turn, but people get really weirdly squeamish about stressing on any other dial move. I tend to look at them the exact same way I look at a k-turn; as an optional, potentially very powerful, but definitely situational move. Unless you're Ibtisam, in which case they're yummy.

I guess a counter-question would be: the B-wing has a fair amount of red on its dial, true, but does it have a lot less green than most comparable ships?

The X-wing only has 3 - the same 3. Falcon? Same 3 greens. HWK? Same 3 greens.

The TIE only has 3 green moves - they're just faster ones. Firespray? Those same earlier 3 greens. The TIE Bomber, oddly enough has 4, clearing stress at higher speeds. Lambda? Those same ever-present 3 greens.

So ignoring the interceptor type ships for a moment, only one other fighter in the game has more greens on the dial than the B-Wing - and it's, weirdly, the TIE Bomber. Which means that aside from the fast ships and the Bomber ( ) no other ship in the game clears stress any better or worse than the B-Wing does. And that, to me, is an important measure of a dial, as well, probably more so than how many ways it has to generate stress, since those tend to be so rarely used anyway.

I understand that pilots can work within the dial, and that some moves are better than others (Ties would love a one forward), and that more options isn't necessairily better outright. The green comparison is certainly a good point (even if off a bit), though I think ignoring the top dials is a but unfair in this comparison, especially since that was part of the original context (long ago in this thread- interceptors have more options after stress than B-wings). Part of my point is that what you can do after stress is also important (for the same reasons surprising people with the B-Wings red) and the B is very limited there. I think all of these things are important now and will be more important.

The thing about limiting the mobility of the interceptor is that it's the equivalent to limiting the shields of the bwing or the 4 dice of the xwing. If you take that away it's no longer that ship.

There are very few ships that their THING is speed/agility/maneuverability but there are many fx that counter that, and now there are more. There aren't (many) effects that ignore sheilds/toughness and the only effect that lowers red dice is a 2/33 crit.

Ion cannons, Ion Turrets, regular turrets, and stress all inhibit what the interceptor is supposed to be "the best at" and are baked into the game. Now there are also ion missiles, stress torpedoes, stress droids, and stress pilot abilities that also inhibit maneuverability. Throw in a little more movement freedom on the oppositions side, damage for stress vs. already low HP ships, and stress clearing by the opposition and the deck is getting stacked fast.

What did interceptors get in return? They can pay more points for a second modification, some EPTs that both sides can use, and a bunch of pilot skills that require stress to activates, often at the expense of no EPT. The fact that we still don't even have our new toys in our hands (despite proxying and playing them) and leaks are coming that say "your new toy you don't even have in hand yet (but have ordered and had plans for) isn't so shiny after all...is kinda the cherry on top.

Interceptors are still pretty mobile without Push the Limit. A single stress isn't a major issue. The issue is that people seem so dependent on Push the Limit, yeah, this new stuff is going to be pretty rough.

I don't think higher PS interceptors suffer too much from R3-A2. Move -> can R3-A2's pilot shoot me? -> If yes, but can boost/roll out to safety do so. if yes, but can't boost/roll then evade or focus (remember Fel will get an extra focus when/if R3-A2 shoots you anyway). if no, GREAT play as normal.

The generic pilots will suffer from it quite a bit though . . .

I think people are also forgetting, or at least not mentioning when talking about double stressing ints, that the ship with r3-a2 is stressing itself to stress the interceptor, and the fact that the interceptor has the second most green options in the game and a few decent white ones on top means that a stressed x or y-wing will have at least some trouble keeping a bead on them. The rebel player will have to rely on other ships to finish off the stressed interceptor, inconvenient sure, but the more people wasting time shooting at it the more time my other ships have to shoot at you.

On the subject of the b-wing, it doesn't have a bad dial by any means but most of the dial's strength is in the slow, tight red maneuvers. I will take a double stressed squint over a double stressed... well anything but an a-wing really, any day.

The torpedoes will hurt but other than being cheap I doubt they'll draw in the majority of the player base that doesn't like one shot weapons.

I wasn't planning on buying the transport, but that just changed. I feel as though I've fallen victim to marketing.

I don't care at all about the transport. But I definitely want the new X-Wing stuff. Luckily, I have a friend willing to split the purchase with me: I keep the X-Wing stuff, he keeps the transport, everybody's happy!