I always imagine the players reading up on things and thinking up tactics, learning skills from each other and gaining insight through experiences and talks with other PC's and NPC's.

These things aren't played out as such but are hidden behind the mandatory Star Wars screen swipe.

I always imagine the players reading up on things and thinking up tactics, learning skills from each other and gaining insight through experiences and talks with other PC's and NPC's.

These things aren't played out as such but are hidden behind the mandatory Star Wars screen swipe.

Then all I'd need is for them to tell me that they're doing stuff like that, for the same reasons as above.

In my experience, players have always been ready and willing to throw out justification, because they like becoming more involved with their character, and explaining to all present just how said individual is growing and evolving. I mean, there was one player a short while back who went into a great long description about how his character - during downtime away from the party - became unwittingly involved with a Black Sun operation, and was forced to shoot and fly his way out of trouble. He went into great detail off his own back, easily justifying the two, higher-tier skill increases he was after.

And he got some bonus XP at the end of the session too, for his attention to RP and for having made the experience all the more enjoyable to the other players. His story also had the beneficial side effect of having introduced and detailed a few NPCs for the GM to take, adapt and use in future stories.

Yeah, it is fun to have characters come up with a reason as to why they can up a certain skill or add a certain talent.

It gets them involved and thinking more of their character is a fully developed being.

Agreed.

To give another example: Shaeyl Starfire, my own PC (a Force-Sensitive Emergeant who went from fourteen-year-old wanderer to Rebel sympathiser to Alliance hero). She's a natural leader (Presence 3, Leadership 2), but has little military/tactical knowledge - until she was handed some historical dataslates from a fellow Rebel (her "mentor" and father figure within the Alliance). Since these dataslates were supposed to detail a few key, historical strategists and leaders throughout the Republic's history, I asked the GM whether the Mandalorian Wars were covered. They were: after all, my GM is a big KOTOR fan.

I mentioned how Shaeyl came across the histories of the Revanchist, and became fascinated with him. Not because he was a Jedi, but because of his military prowess and his many, many victories against an enemy who had them outmaneuvered and close to defeat. Her dedicated reading (which happened over the course of a few sessions) helped me to justify Knowledge (Warfare) 1.

Shaeyl became unwittingly involved in a few battles after that, and tried to emulate what she had learned from the Revanchist as best she could. Her successes weren't overwhelming, but she learned as much from her failures as she did her victories - and rose from rank 1 to 2.

The young Rebel's interest in Revan has peaked around this point in the campaign, when she is just beginning to trust the Force rather than fear it. Because the Old Republic warrior had Jedi origins, the young woman's interest only grew. During an independent session with my GM, she and a close friend (NPC) began scouring through sources on both Dantooine and - later - Almas, in the hopes of finding more obscure facts about the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars. If she can find these, it will be a step closer toward young Shaeyl earning Knowledge (Warfare) 3 (aside from the justification that's coming from her field experience, tutorlage under Alliance's senior officers, etc.)

Yeah, it is fun to have characters come up with a reason as to why they can up a certain skill or add a certain talent.

It gets them involved and thinking more of their character is a fully developed being.

The little stories you can tell just spending your XP bring me a lot of enjoyment.

When I'd gotten about as much as I wanted from Gadgeteer I didn't know whether to jump to Survivalist or Assassin. Both had stuff I wanted for my character but Assassin had a little more, mechanically. But I still went to Survivalist. Why? Because in my head I had Oskara's mentor Gyax clicking away about "the code...".

My players absolutely have to justify using a skill in order to upgrade it after character creation. It's a house rule I implement in all campaigns, regardless of system.

I always imagine the players reading up on things and thinking up tactics, learning skills from each other and gaining insight through experiences and talks with other PC's and NPC's.

These things aren't played out as such but are hidden behind the mandatory Star Wars screen swipe.

Then all I'd need is for them to tell me that they're doing stuff like that, for the same reasons as above.

In my experience, players have always been ready and willing to throw out justification, because they like becoming more involved with their character, and explaining to all present just how said individual is growing and evolving. I mean, there was one player a short while back who went into a great long description about how his character - during downtime away from the party - became unwittingly involved with a Black Sun operation, and was forced to shoot and fly his way out of trouble. He went into great detail off his own back, easily justifying the two, higher-tier skill increases he was after.

And he got some bonus XP at the end of the session too, for his attention to RP and for having made the experience all the more enjoyable to the other players. His story also had the beneficial side effect of having introduced and detailed a few NPCs for the GM to take, adapt and use in future stories.

Again, I want to reiterate that this is a great system, as I play a PC in Shakesperian's game and really have no problem justifying XP purchases. But this is the style of game I signed on for and I knew it well in advance that I was looking for a specific game that was more character development, less go-go-go. But it begs to say that this is an online PbP game, where narration and character development are slow moving and more detailed. One session can take a couple of weeks, so it's a whole different mentality than a tabletop where a session is over in 1-6 hours.

I'm not saying that one type of game is superior to another, but they are realistically two styles of one game. And, I do believe, as long as the GM let's the players no from the outset that XP expenditures should be RPed, I see no problem with that being the means of mechanical character development as it still doesn't 'hinder' players from creating the PC that they want.

I feel either means is good and GM's shouldn't feel locked into doing one or another, but it's something that should be discussed with your players before CharGen.

I guess I don't mind some justification as long as it within reason. In my third D6 Campaign my character was the main tech in a small pirate fleet that eventually went privateer.

The GM ruled that if I wanted to increase one of my technical skills and none of the ships or equipment of the type had been damaged in the previous adventure I had to roll streetwise to find a bookstore with difficulty mods based on what port or planet we were on when the adventure ended. Than I rolled against a table to determine what tech manuals the store had (The GM actually had lists of tech manuals he had made up, with costs and what skills they taught), The selection roll and costs were modded again based on location as well. I can remember rolling heroic streetwises (With very good luck on the wild dice) to find bookstores on Uogo'cor and Tatooine only to find that I already had all the manuals they had for the skills I was wanting to boost (Capship weapon repair on Uogo'cor and Starfighter Repair on Tatooine.)

I admire the GM's dedication but IMO he took things a little too far.

I guess I don't mind some justification as long as it within reason. In my third D6 Campaign my character was the main tech in a small pirate fleet that eventually went privateer.

The GM ruled that if I wanted to increase one of my technical skills and none of the ships or equipment of the type had been damaged in the previous adventure I had to roll streetwise to find a bookstore with difficulty mods based on what port or planet we were on when the adventure ended. Than I rolled against a table to determine what tech manuals the store had (The GM actually had lists of tech manuals he had made up, with costs and what skills they taught), The selection roll and costs were modded again based on location as well. I can remember rolling heroic streetwises (With very good luck on the wild dice) to find bookstores on Uogo'cor and Tatooine only to find that I already had all the manuals they had for the skills I was wanting to boost (Capship weapon repair on Uogo'cor and Starfighter Repair on Tatooine.)

I admire the GM's dedication but IMO he took things a little too far.

I wouldn't go that far. I'm with the Shakespearian Soldier in that even the most minor justification, like "sure, nothing got broken, but everything still needs to be maintained," would work. I just like knowing my players are thinking about their characters' development. I'm a story nerd like that.

The wookie in my group and myself entered a brawling (MMA) tournament and wound up fighting each other in the final. The fight lasted forever and afterwards we both used our xp to raise our brawl skill.

Huh. What unarmed Martial Arts exist in Star Wars?

I've seen Echani fighting in KotOR and a Gand player once had a bunch of special moves for Gand-fu (or whatever it's called).

Are some better in some situations than others? (Not thinking about rules here, just flavour.)

Huh. What unarmed Martial Arts exist in Star Wars?

I've seen Echani fighting in KotOR and a Gand player once had a bunch of special moves for Gand-fu (or whatever it's called).

Are some better in some situations than others? (Not thinking about rules here, just flavour.)

Teras Kasi. But its primarily taught by Jedi, even though the Teras Kasi vehemently opposed the Jedi (and apparently Sith). Turned people into living weapons (think Shaolin monks) that could fight lightsaber users barehanded and also taught themselves how to shut off their mind to the Force...

Huh. What unarmed Martial Arts exist in Star Wars?

I've seen Echani fighting in KotOR and a Gand player once had a bunch of special moves for Gand-fu (or whatever it's called).

Are some better in some situations than others? (Not thinking about rules here, just flavour.)

There's my personal favorite.'Ey! Yew!'.......Lots of headbutting and kicking with the occasional bottle to the head............

There's my personal favorite.'Ey! Yew!'.......Lots of headbutting and kicking with the occasional bottle to the head............

I see somebody's been to Glasgow.

So, I just have to share what happened in our last gaming session to my slicer I mentioned in my previous post in this thread. It totally fits this discussion and I'm wondering now if the Force had anything to do with what happened to my character just a couple days after me making my post. =)

In my last gaming session, my slicer got a cybernetic brain implant which raised his Int by 1, added a built-in comm link, and has a wireless access to computers now. Very cool! Oh, and now he's bald. A little later in the adventure while we were trying to outrun some baddies in a speeder, he got bathed by a super-toxic chemical waterfall which made him fall unconscious and take a critical injury (he fell prone). And then the hilarity began with the comments from the other players. One player mentioned it just reminded him of the River Rapids ride at an amusement park where only one guy gets soaking wet. Another said the GM just created the Joker from Batman because my character is now an albino. I added that he is completely hairless now.

And then The Force came up ... by me. I tossed out there that maybe an accident like this could turn on the "Force Sensitive Exile" for my character. Everyone at the table loved the idea, especially me because I never even once considered it for this guy. So, at the end of the night after the XP was rewarded, I didn't raise my Computers skill or my Ranged(Light) skill ... two skills I used most. I spent it all on Force Sensitive Exile and the Move power. My character doesn't know it yet, but grabbing for his datapad from across his room has just become very easy.

Gotta write-up a little story for my GM/SM for saturday when we continue.

Just thought I'd share.

Z

And then the hilarity began with the comments from the other players. One player mentioned it just reminded him of the River Rapids ride at an amusement park where only one guy gets soaking wet. Another said the GM just created the Joker from Batman because my character is now an albino. I added that he is completely hairless now.

Bah! Kids today. This would have been my first go-to Meta Reference:

And then the hilarity began with the comments from the other players. One player mentioned it just reminded him of the River Rapids ride at an amusement park where only one guy gets soaking wet. Another said the GM just created the Joker from Batman because my character is now an albino. I added that he is completely hairless now.

Bah! Kids today. This would have been my first go-to Meta Reference:

exactly what I was thinking too!

For me it really depends. Generally speaking I'm open to a 'whatever floats your boat' approach for players raising their skills/talents. I do keep an active eye on what's being raised as what is being raised is a clear sign to the GM that this what what they feel is relevant and thus needs to be in the game at some point. If a player takes a hold out blaster they make a point to smuggle past and conceal and improve their ability to do so, I feel it's my duty as a GM to craft a scene where there is a payout for that. If the player raises Cool for the point of being a wicked gambler, then that will certainly come up. (And did most recently. Party lost their ship over Raxius Prime in the big escape of Beyond the Rim. After free booting for a while, the group outplayed a Smuggler heavily in debt to the Black Sun and won his ship. Was intense as it was several rolls and one of the PCs was initially offered up as a slave for gambling stakes. Solid plan too, because win or lose, the party was in a position to advance their ultimate agenda, which made winning that much sweeter.)

If a choice catches me totally off guard, I'll discuss it with the player just to see where they are coming from, if it makes any sense, and really most important, if the skill/talent/specialization is the best fit for what they are hoping to achieve. I don't want my players spending 40+ Xp raising out of career skills that won't quite give them the style their were hoping for.

The Force I'm a lot harder on, but I was also upfront about that. I told my player they could pick one power and that is their 'natural talent' they can develop to their hearts content. Others would require some in game justification (manuals, paths, moments of insight achieved through actions in game, etc). I've always felt (and the movies/EU lends support to this) that there are lots of things in the Force that require teaching. Heck, that was Palpatine's big selling point to Anakin. The other factor is since it's an Edge of the Empire game, I didn't want the Force to be a dominating theme. If I was running a different themed game, I'd loosen up on the more 'generic' powers.

For EotE I have Players spend their EXP between adventures or between Acts and I generally don't level restrictions on them. I do advise that they look at skills they have been using that they aren't succeeding as often at or skills they wanted to use but didn't feel they were high enough to bother before upping skills (usually Combat skills) that they are already doing well at.

What I've often found in most non-leveling RPGs is that Players tend to go a little (or a lot) overkill on combat skills right away. If you're hitting and doing decent damage most rounds and surviving Combat without too much damage taken there really is no reason to keep sinking most of your EXP into skills you're already pretty good at. The difference between taking out your opponents a Round or two earlier isn't, IMO, worth not getting that extra level of Knowledge or Social skills.