b-b-b-Biggs... thoughts on my line of thinking.

By rwhiffen, in X-Wing

Ok, So I have a list in mind that's pretty straight forward:

Biggs Darklighter - 28 points
Stealth Device
Dagger Squadron Pilot #1 - 24 points
Dagger Squadron Pilot #2 - 24 points
Dagger Squadron Pilot #3 - 24 points
Here's my line of thinking:
Against BlueBacca - they all fire before the HLC B-WIngs
Against a 5 ship rebel build they're likely to fire first across the board.
Against a typical swarm they're likely to fire first.
Biggs keeps the B-WIngs intact longer (instead of just doing 4 B-wings)
There are lists it would do poorly against, like the 3 HCL B-Wings since they'd have initiative, or other higher PS builds (like four intercepters with cascading Swarm Tactics, etc). You can't build your list counter everything, so I think this strikes a fair balance.
So, my line of thinking 4 ships with PS4 or better for potential to shoot first more often, while still getting all the HP and attack dice that 4 ships brings to the table.
Thoughts on my line of thinking (not the squad makeup necessarily, you could do other ships based on the same idea).
Rich

I don't see what Biggs does. In place of a 4th Dagger you get +1 PS for -3HP for 4 more pts and 1-2 more agility. Sometimes it will pay off, sometimes it will be 28pts wasted. All Biggs does is forces an opponent to focus fire, which, VS. Bwings, if they weren't doing already you would have beat them anyway.

I prefer seeing more than 4xbwing squads but don't see what this does that improves or would make me want to play it more. You made your most expensive ship the mandatory first target. In this case he happens to be the most fragile to boot.

I think that you could see some success with this list. The key will be to use Biggs on a flank and force the attacker to split fire between Biggs and a b wing. If he focuses on a single ship you will likely loose it. But if you can manipulate fire arcs to only have Biggs be in half you should be in good shape.

Edited by LegionThree

Keep biggs behind a eoxk or screaming in to protect a wounded bird and I can see this working. I find the biggs utility to be great in certain circumstances.

Bwings are rather weak and pointless (and toothless) without the sensor upgrades. In your case I'd consider using Blue Bwings + FCS instead.

Biggs is alright, he protects the Bwings from range 3 return fire, where the Bwings are more likely to get hit than Biggs. Afterwards, you would be entering range 1-2 combat, where the Bwings w/o HLC is comfortable being in.

Normally i would try and include a support ship in my rebel 4 ships, best if its a turret, so I get some protection against PTL TIEints/Awings that like to jump out of your firing arcs and attack from weird angles. So if you took away 1 of the Bwings you could easily sneak in a Roark + ion turret, for example, or a gold Ywing + turret + R5 astromech

Edited by Duraham

The trick with biggs is to spread damage instead of being focused down.

It also helps getting the B-wings into prime position.

I do think the stealthdevice on biggs is wasted, actually I think any upgrade is wasted on biggs. For consistency I would go for advanced sensors. Or triple fire control systems.

The trick with biggs is to spread damage instead of being focused down.

It also helps getting the B-wings into prime position.

I do think the stealthdevice on biggs is wasted, actually I think any upgrade is wasted on biggs. For consistency I would go for advanced sensors. Or triple fire control systems.

stealth device on Biggs is good, at range 3 he's nearly immune to a howlrunner swarm, since the TIEs can only dish out damage in maximum strings of 2s, and Biggs still has a focus to defend against that one bad defense dice roll

Edited by Duraham

The trick with biggs is to spread damage instead of being focused down.

It also helps getting the B-wings into prime position.

stealth device on Biggs is good, at range 3 he's nearly immune to a howlrunner swarm, since the TIEs can only dish out damage in maximum strings of 2s, and Biggs still has a focus to defend against that one bad defense dice roll

First off, wont say its bad though. But I do think points would be spent better elsewhere.

My thoughs on why stealth device is meh for Biggs (but Biggs himself is the absolute nuts!):

B-wings add consistency due to high amounts of hit points, so you can only fail shooting. Interceptors are (kinda like biggs with stealth) are friggin' ace! but just die to a whiff of blanks. In a tournament you cannot rely on dice consistency to pull through multiple games. There will be a game were you just fail on a defense roll.

You might as well invest into something that boosts your damage output or something that guaranties to soak damage. I might want to consider a shield upgrade for Biggs, but you might as well get it on another ship as you can get bumped out of range 1 or you want to spread damage onto your ships.

Edited by PS10

I agree that Stealth device is a waist on biggs, unless paired with r2-f2 and a free focus it doesn't pan out much.

This is of course to say that within the first round of firing you loose your stealth. however if it helps block more than 1 damage, it has already been more useful than a shield upgrade.

I think that you will find enjoying running biggs with the b-wings that have such a low agility and can take an eating at range 3. Mess around with the squad and try different variants until you find the one that is most comfortable.

If you want initiative, try

Biggs

Ibi-Elusiveness, Sensor Jammer

Ten-PTL Advance Sesnors

or

Biggs

Ibi Swarm Tactics

2x Blue Squadron

Edited by macar

I agree that Stealth device is a waist on biggs, unless paired with r2-f2 and a free focus it doesn't pan out much.

First I'll say that I like the OP's list. My personal thoughts on Biggs is that I run him naked unless I put R2-D2 on him. I like the idea of a stealth upgrade (3pts) vs. the 8 points R2-D2 and a shield upgrade costs. While the cheaper stealth version has no chance of recovering after being hit, he would be tougher to hit. If the dice fall your way, you can keep him in R2-3, and successfully split your opponents forces; this could really pay off!

My choice in the stealth device was more about points remaining to build with. There aren't a lot of 1-point upgrades to throw on the B's so I threw it on biggs. I could go with 4 daggers, but there still wouldn't be enough points to trick them all out the same. The hope is that I can have the B's at range 2-ish, while Biggs stays at range 3 for 4 defense dice for the first round. If things go well (again, more wishful thinking) I take one of my opponents ships before he takes the first of mine.

My bigger question though was is PS4 worth it? Going from Daggers to Blues gets me all kinds of nice toys, but almost assures I fire last. I've been beaten too many times when ships never even get to fire a shot in the first pass. Going for higher PS means I have to reduce ships. PS4 seems to be the sweet spot for ships to PS (unless you do 4-intercepters with a swarm tactics chain or something like that to get PS9 for the first round).

I like Daggers and even without tricks they can pack a punch. Biggs, I am not sold on. I would consider dropping to a Red for PS4 across the board and adding either 2 Adv. Sensors to the Daggers or 3 x FCS to the Daggers. I'd probably go with the Adv's.

I think you will get more bang for the PS4 bid this way. You can sweep the X around the flank, your opponent can't ignore the move as 3-4 dice from the side is an issue. If you can time it right, 12-16 attack dice going in will make someone think.

I hope I don't get drawn against you :-)

My choice in the stealth device was more about points remaining to build with. There aren't a lot of 1-point upgrades to throw on the B's so I threw it on biggs. I could go with 4 daggers, but there still wouldn't be enough points to trick them all out the same. The hope is that I can have the B's at range 2-ish, while Biggs stays at range 3 for 4 defense dice for the first round. If things go well (again, more wishful thinking) I take one of my opponents ships before he takes the first of mine.

My bigger question though was is PS4 worth it? Going from Daggers to Blues gets me all kinds of nice toys, but almost assures I fire last. I've been beaten too many times when ships never even get to fire a shot in the first pass. Going for higher PS means I have to reduce ships. PS4 seems to be the sweet spot for ships to PS (unless you do 4-intercepters with a swarm tactics chain or something like that to get PS9 for the first round).

So I just ran a version of your build against a strong 4 ship empire build that included a shuttle. The stealth device was lost second round to a bad dice through. Finding a point for R2-D2 would have worked out better in the long run for that game. I did win the game, as I force bad shots for several rounds. I'm going to run it again, but with R2-D2 and see how it plays out...