Hellholt Engineer v. Attack from the Sea

By lahomen, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

Attack from the Sea, plot: When revealed,kneel all locations.

Hellholt Engineer: Response: After an opponent kneels a location, choose and stand a location you control.

Scenario A: Opponent reveals Attack from the Sea, we each have 3 locations, and I have the Engineer. Can I stand all of my locations in response to him kneeling from plot?

Scenario B: I reveal Attack from the Sea, we each have 3 locations, and I have the Engineer. Can I stand all of my locations in response to him kneeling from plot?

Scenario A:

For each location knelt a distinct Response window opens. So you can trigger Hellholt Engineer multiple times in this scenario, much like you can trigger CS Joffrey multiple times if multiple Lords and Ladies are killed by Valar.

Scenario B:

I'd say you can't trigger Hellholt Engineer at all in this scenario, because his play restrictions are not met. It's not "an opponent" that kneels those locations, it's your card effect - i.e. you.

To my knowledge, this scenario has been discussed before and it was determined to be Scenario B because a card effect is doing the kneeling and not the player. Players doing the kneeling is generally kneeling when paying costs(or kneeling characters to attack or defend challenges, but since they aren't locations, that point is moot).

I know it was discussed somewhere, and I couldn't find it. These boards lend themselves to having the same conversations again and again every few months...

Thanks for the thoughts.

I think that Bomb may have misread the two scenarios. His answer seems to be treating them as alternative answers to the same scenario (revealing Attack while controlling Hellholt) as opposed to two separate scenarios (whether the player or the opponent reveals Attack while the player controls Hellholt).

So to ensure clarity, let me restate: if you are reading Bomb's explanation carefully, you'll see that Hellholt Engineer cannot be used in Scenario A or Scenario B.

It doesn't matter who reveals the plot. In both scenarios, it is the plot effect, NOT the player/opponent doing the kneeling. So the play restrictions for Hellholt Engineer are not met in either scenario and no locations stand. For Hellholt Engineer to be used, an opponent has to kneel a location to pay the cost of something.

Thanks for clearing up anything I said that might have raised more questions than provided answers. :)

It doesn't matter who reveals the plot. In both scenarios, it is the plot effect, NOT the player/opponent doing the kneeling.

And this is actually a long-standing ruling that somehow passed me by. Sorry for the wrong answer.