I think the prequels had some very good ideas that were handled badly I think the Clone Wars had many good episodes and stories but they got rarer for the last three seasons. I have no problems with aspects of either showing up in Rebels or the ST. I would love to see some of the idealistic Separatist military officers or soldiers (The ones the Cone Wars cartoon writers apparently forgot existed since all the Separatists we saw in the series who joined the CIS for ideals rather than greed or bloodlust were civilians or politicians) helping to form the Resistance movements and later the Alliance

There are elements of nearly everything I can say I liked. I think the prequels were god awful movies but that doesn't mean there weren't parts I don't like. I love General Grievous, mysterious, anachronistic, and evil for the sake of evil. I do like the Flash Gordon-esque Art Deco style of the Coruscant skyline and speeders. I was glad to see guided munitions in the space battles, and the space battle scenes tended to be obviously SFX wise quite nicely done.

1) I submit to you that at some point, Star Wars became bigger than George Lucas. I question how much his opinion, approval, or "vision" really matters at this stage. The man doesn't even own Star Wars anymore.

2) And while I'm as thankful to Mr. Lucas for giving us the Galaxy Far Far Away as the next guy, I also would like to point out that George Lucas, like nearly every other human being, benefits from having his work critically peer reviewed. I present The Star Wars as Exhibit A. It is a wonderful glimpse into what Star Wars could have been, and an even more wonderful reminder of how thankful we should be that early on, George Lucas had people to tell him "no."

3) Just because he approved a story, plot, or "episode," doesn't necessarily make it good, or make it fit with the rest of the Star Wars universe. At the risk of being accused of blaspheme, George Lucas' opinion on what is or isn't, or should or shouldn't be Star Wars doesn't (and shouldn't) matter anymore.

4) Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said that writers of The Clone Wars were disrespectful to the source material. Perhaps I could have said that the writers for The Clone Wars had no regard for established canon, whatever the quality. There's more to it, though, than merely the gigantic middle finger to every other Star Wars author out there. I'll have to think on it more and offer you a better explanation when I've had time to better articulate it.

5) I'll agree with you, though, that Traviss' mandophilia got old quickly (as much as I enjoyed her Clone Commando series) and the Abeloth storyline wasn't all that good to begin with. Not much post-Endor Star Wars fiction is any good. Whether a giant The Clone Wars sticker being slapped on it made it worse or was merely polishing a turd is a matter of opinion, I suppose.

6) I think the concept of an ancient, extinct alien race building incredible mechanical constructs with unknown motivations and for unknown purposes is a fantastic one. It's one that Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect capitalized on quite successfully. (Which isn't a surprise, when you consider how much Mass Effect "borrowed" from Star Wars.)

7) I think the idea of something out in deep space that this ancient, advanced race was scared of or concerned about is a great idea too, if not overdone. The problem was that the execution of both of those concepts in the Fate of the Jedi series was lackluster at best.

8)It's a common problem with Star Wars- great concepts with terrible execution.

1) Sure, but at the time of TCW and up until quite recently, the man did own it, he was Star Wars. Now it's a different matter, which is hopefully an improvement.

2) I whole heartedly agree.

3) The quality of the episode doesn't make it more or less Star Wars, and if it doesn't fit with other established canon, except the films I guess, it overrides it as far as I know (or at least is considered to be "more right" or "more canon" or something), this is the issue with the silly multi-levelled canon malarkey they're getting rid of now.

4) This relates to the above. Established canon, outside the films, is secondary or tertiary (or even irrelevant) to the "proper canon" or "GL canon", which up until recently was all what mattered. Now all that will be fixed, in some way or another. For instance I assume Rebels will consider the films and TCW to be established canon and material one should go to great lengths not to contradict. Other stuff that "matters" will be established soon enough I guess.

5) +1

6) Definitely.

7+8) Aye. You're **** straight you are.

I do like the Flash Gordon-esque Art Deco style of the Coruscant skyline and speeders.

As do I.

It is weird to see someone so adamentely state they won't open themselves up for a new experience as often as you do Maelora.

Almost as if there is a certain pride involved... "I won't watch the new movies" is not something I would think any reasonable person would quickly claim, I would think a "I will probably not like them, but I'll only know for sure if I give it a shot." Seems a far more reasonable position. It would also be more in keeping with the way in which you usually cary yourself on these fora, open minded, fun and reasonable.

I tend to agree, DanteRotterdam. I've been a Star Wars fan since 1977 at age 6, and I am finding that I love Star Wars more than ever but I find its fandom suffocating.

For many it's not enough to just accept that they haven't enjoyed some part of the Star Wars mythos. It has to be that the creators of the Prequels/novels/Clone Wars/Rebels/etc "don't understand the true meaning of Star Wars", "crapped all over my childhood", or are making everything "just for kids".

This, as opposed to the sophisticated and mature adult-oriented space adventure of the young heroes, gunslingers and robots trying to save a princess from an evil space wizard that changed my life when I was six years old.

I appreciate the intent of Maelora's original post, which seemed to be making an effort to be reasonable, at least, by accepting "some Star Wars stories are not my cup of tea."

I'm a fan of the prequels, although there are obviously aspects of them I feel could be improved. I'm a huge fan of The Clone Wars TV show and I have a lot of respect for Dave Filoni and the people involved in making it. I feel that, whether you 'approve' of what they did or not, they're just people doing their best to tell fun and moving Star Wars stories.

I don't feel it's accurate to criticize the Clone Wars (or the new show Rebels) as being "just for kids", any more than it is to criticize the prequels as being "just for kids". We all know how much kids love stories about senate disputes and trade blockades, right?

I feel like reasonable people might be willing to wait until the Rebels show has aired, perhaps, before completely condemning it. Personally I have a lot of faith in the creative team so I'm expecting I might enjoy it.

If I don't enjoy it, that's okay, too. It doesn't mean the people involved have brutalized my childhood, or are betraying some sacred religious trust that only I know the true meaning of. Sometimes we just don't like everything.

I like NCIS.

Series 10 has just started here and it is still going strong.

Last week NCIS LA was advertised and I was opposed to the idea. "It's not the real NCIS" I said.

Realizing what a stupid comment that is in hindsight, I just want to clarify that I meant it wouldn't be anything like the nine series of awesomeness I have enjoyed every minute of. No TV is real, and I'm sure the real life NCIS do a fine job and it's doesn't take 45 minutes for them to solve a case.

Back on topic. Grumping and complaining I watched the first episode of NCIS LA.....can't wait for the next episode. While it will never replace Gibbs, Dinozo, McGee, Abby, Ziva, Ducky and Palmer, it's was enjoyable viewing judged on it's own merits.

Marvels Agents of Shield!? You've got to be kidding me! That will never be as good as the movies! Series one finished a few months back and I can't wait for the next series. Compared with the films....lame....but judged as a separate stand alone entity with no high expectations it was enjoyable, and addictive, viewing.

Now I intend picking up The Clone Wars, which I believe is the computer animated series rather than the cartoon. Episodes apparently an hour long unless I've misread something.

Seeing adverts for it, but never watching it, I thought "rubbish, that won't be as good as the movies". Well duh! But like NCIS LA and Marvels Agents of Shield I'm not wanting to watch it with high expectations. To do so will result in disappointment. Instead I'm approaching it from this point of view:

"It's part of the story of Star Wars. Taking place between Episodes II and III. I'd like to know what happens. Rather than spend days reading through countless Wookieepedia pages, I can just sit down and watch. Might get some good ideas for missions too."

Word of advise. Don't have high expectations of spin-offs, thinking they'll be as good as the big budget movies because.....

Well said Maelora. For a second there I thought I had sleep-walked-posted since so much of what you said could be applied to me:

I was just thinking of how I disliked the characters and premise for the new Disney 'Rebels' cartoon, when it occurred to me that I'm absolutely fine with that. I mean, I'm not the target audience, and that's cool.

Somewhere between a skinny tomboy being taken to a cinema in Newport my hometown and today, I grew up, and realised I'm actually 45 years old this year. Still into Star Wars, still a passionate gamer.

I haven't much cared for the directions SW has gone in the last twenty years. I've never watched Clone Wars and I won't watch this series, and but I almost certainly won't will watch Disney's sequels. .

I'm perfectly happy to have a franchise that has 'Ewoks Teach Your Five-Year-Old To Read' at one end of the spectrum and naked DeviantArt fanservice at the other end.

SW predates even D&D for me, my two childhood sweethearts, the two things that stayed with me through my adult life, through all the distractions.

Yep with my edits above that could have been me typing that word for word.

I like NCIS.

Series 10 has just started here and it is still going strong.

Last week NCIS LA was advertised and I was opposed to the idea. "It's not the real NCIS" I said.

Realizing what a stupid comment that is in hindsight, I just want to clarify that I meant it wouldn't be anything like the nine series of awesomeness I have enjoyed every minute of. No TV is real, and I'm sure the real life NCIS do a fine job and it's doesn't take 45 minutes for them to solve a case.

Back on topic. Grumping and complaining I watched the first episode of NCIS LA.....can't wait for the next episode. While it will never replace Gibbs, Dinozo, McGee, Abby, Ziva, Ducky and Palmer, it's was enjoyable viewing judged on it's own merits.

Marvels Agents of Shield!? You've got to be kidding me! That will never be as good as the movies! Series one finished a few months back and I can't wait for the next series. Compared with the films....lame....but judged as a separate stand alone entity with no high expectations it was enjoyable, and addictive, viewing.

Now I intend picking up The Clone Wars, which I believe is the computer animated series rather than the cartoon. Episodes apparently an hour long unless I've misread something.

Seeing adverts for it, but never watching it, I thought "rubbish, that won't be as good as the movies". Well duh! But like NCIS LA and Marvels Agents of Shield I'm not wanting to watch it with high expectations. To do so will result in disappointment. Instead I'm approaching it from this point of view:

"It's part of the story of Star Wars. Taking place between Episodes II and III. I'd like to know what happens. Rather than spend days reading through countless Wookieepedia pages, I can just sit down and watch. Might get some good ideas for missions too."

Neither Clone Wars series ever had 1 hour episodes though there were multi-episode arcs in the latter and really the former's final season was one or two giant arcs.

I watch things I like and don't watch things I don't like. I've never listened to to reviews. Mainly because those reviews are always based on the reviewer's preferences. There is no right or wrong Star Wars for me, just things I either like or don't.

Personally I am looking forward to Rebels. I never got into Clone Wars. Saw the movie, but nothing of the series, but that had more to do with a convenience factor. I will probably check it out once it drops on Netflix.

I never got into Clone Wars. Saw the movie, but nothing of the series

Then it is no surprise you didn't get into it... Man did that movie suck!

I watch things I like and don't watch things I don't like. I've never listened to to reviews. Mainly because those reviews are always based on the reviewer's preferences. There is no right or wrong Star Wars for me, just things I either like or don't.

Personally I am looking forward to Rebels. I never got into Clone Wars. Saw the movie, but nothing of the series, but that had more to do with a convenience factor. I will probably check it out once it drops on Netflix.

I saw the Clone Wars movie. Disliked it. I much later gave Season 1 a try when others said it got better. Still disliked it. Since I'm a Star Wars fan, I will go ahead and try Rebels, but my hopes are not set very high due to the personal track record. I hope I love it. I'm not upset at anyone for loving the Clone Wars, I wish I did also. I just didn't.

It MAY just be the cartoon aspect. I've never been into cartoons at all. If the Clone Wars series had been live action who knows I might have tried Season 2. I just couldn't get over some of the over-the-top aspects that come natural with a cartoon. I apparently wasn't the target audience and I'm ok with that. Thinking of myself only, I wish it had been done differently.

Well season 1 also was pretty bad to be honest… I think it hit its stride in season 3.

Star Wars is one of those settings which is very hard to form into a dichotomy of child & adult audience.

Which is both part of its appeal to people of all age groups and frustration for many when they look to analyse 'what they do & don't like', to be critical I think a lot of the latter has to do with a series of hit-miss scripts and a fairly diverse amount of directors interpretations given to those stories. Which is essentially, what directors do when someone throws them a story and handful of actors... hell, I wouldnt want to be the bloke who gets to assign it a G, PG or M rating!

On one hand, it has fluffy teddy bears, aww... aw crap that one just got toasted by an ATST and his friend is crying.

Luke's going for a ride on his furry dinosaur... and then his friend has just gutted it and stuffed him in it

That and many memorable dismemberments, incinerations and shootings later!

The movies have tended to be walking this funny, wibbly wobble line between what adults think is entertainment for young kids during the production and what the kids actually like watching while still having enough content so parents don't fall asleep in the theatre. (None of which is really my judgement to make, I'm old, cranky, don't have kids and the ones I do have in my family are at the toddle & destroy phase so god only knows what goes through their heads)

It dips a toe in each, not always well.

But, being a roleplayer first, pick what I like out of it and use it, anything I don't like gets discarded.

Comes down to it, don't even care if I have to make it up to suit either, regardless of how 'canon', 'EU', Uncle George or Walt Disney's think it should be, because its my game.

If it is Star Wars I will consume it, doesn't really matter what it is. I watch every thing, collect and play every video game, read all the comics, and try to read all the books (including RPGs). The only thing I don't get into are action figures, but I never really had the collector spirit. For me, it is about experiencing something new in the galaxy I love. Including TCW. Plot immunity never bothered me because I found TCW fascinating just because it was official stories outside of the films about what happened to these characters and that, to me, is amazing! Every episode was a new chance to see what sort of crazy thing was going to happen to the characters this time, and the fact that they lived through it. [sblock]I've spent many hours pondering how Obi Wan must have felt in the OT after losing Satine, someone he loved and would have left the order for.[/sblock] Plus it is extremely easy to tune out any stories that I do not enjoy from the Star Wars universe: A New Hope, The Christmas special, Thrawn stuff, Vong stuff, and a few others. I never rail against someone else's Star Wars preferences because it is a big galaxy and there is something for everyone out there.

Yes, you read that correct, I do not like the original Star Wars. It is long, drags on and on, is boring, 3P0 and Luke are wicked annoying, has the worst lightsaber fight of the OT, the worst and most boring space battle of the OT, and... I could go on and on. I rank it 1 notch above The Phantom Menace only because it is what created this whole galaxy I love in the first place. Despite all that I still watch it regularly.

Anyway, what do I want out of the new Star Wars? I don't want it to be The Avengers. Or Captain America. Or Iron Man. Or Thor. Or X-Men. I don't want it to be The Avengers re-skinned with Star Wars. But whatever it is, I will go see it many many times and I will buy the dvd/blu-ray and still watch it at home on occasion. I <3 Star Wars.

Can you imagine watching Episodes I to IX all at once. Will need to make sure there are plenty of snacks, a takeaway menu, plenty of drinks and at least one can of energy drink because you don't want to get tired and nod off. Unplug telephone, switch off mobile and leave the computer off.

Now that is a day I would enjoy. Would need to be a holiday time because I'd be sleeping the next day.

This topic reminds me of something as a Star Wars father I've debated with myself. I have a nearing 4 year old that I've already transformed into a Star Wars nut. Her favoriate character is Darth Vader which I think is great or is very concerning to me, not sure which. She only has watched some of Episode IV and due to her age I'm sure she won't remember much of what she has seen. For now, it's all about the toys, legos, and come Clone Wars cartoons. She's already been a wookie and Yoda for halloween. That sort of stuff.

My problem is, when she is old enough, in what order should she watch the movies? I've before thought how cool it would be for someone to start with Episode I instead of IV. BUT, that would ruin some of the later monumental moments - Luke is Darth's son?! Leia is Luke's sister?! I think I have my answer, but would like some input.

She's also played through the Legos Star Wars game, all 6 episodes. Due to her age and the very basic story telling of the game, I know she hasn't figured out the Luke-Darth or even Annakin-Darth connections. I did start with Episode IV when playing the game with her though.

Well season 1 also was pretty bad to be honest… I think it hit its stride in season 3.

Now that it is on Netflix, I might give another season a try. I might have to start over with Season 1 since it's been a while, but my daughter loves the Clone Wars so it won't be too bad to watch it with her again. I will have to recall to come back here and **** you for the loss of time if it still sucks.

Can you imagine watching Episodes I to IX all at once.

My kind of day off.

As to which to watch first. I started my son on the OT literally before he was out of the womb. His mom was pregnant with him when the OT was re-released back in 97. He missed seeing episode 1 and 2 in the theater, but caught 3 there. At home though I watched the OT more often than the PT so he was exposed to it first.

This topic reminds me of something as a Star Wars father I've debated with myself. I have a nearing 4 year old that I've already transformed into a Star Wars nut. Her favoriate character is Darth Vader which I think is great or is very concerning to me, not sure which. She only has watched some of Episode IV and due to her age I'm sure she won't remember much of what she has seen. For now, it's all about the toys, legos, and come Clone Wars cartoons. She's already been a wookie and Yoda for halloween. That sort of stuff.

My problem is, when she is old enough, in what order should she watch the movies? I've before thought how cool it would be for someone to start with Episode I instead of IV. BUT, that would ruin some of the later monumental moments - Luke is Darth's son?! Leia is Luke's sister?! I think I have my answer, but would like some input.

She's also played through the Legos Star Wars game, all 6 episodes. Due to her age and the very basic story telling of the game, I know she hasn't figured out the Luke-Darth or even Annakin-Darth connections. I did start with Episode IV when playing the game with her though.

Let me introduce you to Star Wars machete order: http://static.nomachetejuggling.com/machete_order.html

Let me introduce you to Star Wars machete order: http://static.nomachetejuggling.com/machete_order.html

Now that is interesting. I will have to try that.

My problem is, when she is old enough, in what order should she watch the movies? I've before thought how cool it would be for someone to start with Episode I instead of IV. BUT, that would ruin some of the later monumental moments - Luke is Darth's son?! Leia is Luke's sister?! I think I have my answer, but would like some input.

I don't have kids, so would never presume to give parental advice.

As for Star Wars, I feel it is best to go IV to VI then I to III. Just because that is how it was for me and it would ruin the original revelations with Leia and Darth Vader not to do it that way. Might get the reaction "yeah big deal, I knew that since Episode III" otherwise. Personally, I feel that Episode III really shouldn't be shown to young children as it gets.....nasty.

Much depends on how mature/sensitive the child is, I never had much of a youth so grew up quick. I'm more mature than my father and three older siblings, so wasn't easily shocked. But recently I was watching Avengers at the cinema and getting annoyed because a child of six was asking their mother a continuous stream of "why?"

Why did he stab the man in the eye?

Why did he turn green?

Why is he smashing up the ship?

Why.....

Why.....

It was the parent I was annoyed with and barely held my tongue. Frankly, why was a six year old watching Avengers Assembled?

Let me introduce you to Star Wars machete order: http://static.nomachetejuggling.com/machete_order.html

Meh, he's a blowhard and I liked E1. It's by turns hilarious, aggravating, and weird to me that we can all be Star Wars fans and have such completely different opinions about what we like about it. It does say something about the richness of the tapestry.

Anyway, I think Release Order is best. The "Luke, I am your father" reveal is too important to the experience.

Meh, he's a blowhard and I liked E1. It's by turns hilarious, aggravating, and weird to me that we can all be Star Wars fans and have such completely different opinions about what we like about it. It does say something about the richness of the tapestry.

Anyway, I think Release Order is best. The "Luke, I am your father" reveal is too important to the experience.

You mean this tapestry: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57619260-1/hand-stitched-star-wars-tapestry-of-a-galaxy-far-far-away/

Regardless, I don't mind Ep I. I can certainly see where it falls flat to most people.

What is funny is that I prefer The Phantom Menace to the other two movies in the PT. I found Jake Lloyd better than Hayden in the role as Anakin. Now a lot of that can be laid at the script and directing as I have seen Hayden in other roles and do a very serviceable job. But I found glimpses of the consternation and frustration that would drive Anakin to the Dark Side later in The Phantom Menace. As movie on its own I enjoyed it, pod race and all.

My issues with the PT lay more in my own ideas of what I thought happened. But that's on me and I can't fault GL for his own vision.