Bonjour,

A friend of mine (no, just me) was wondering if you place Rich Lands & a Keep (or similar card) during setup if it counts to the "After Rich Lands & a Keep comes into play, draw a card."

Merci!

Rich Lands and a Keep can't actually be played on setup.

Only attachments with the keyword 'Setup.' can be placed during setup.

But for cards that CAN be placed in setup, "after comes into play" effects cannot be used in setup.

Thanks both!!!!

I would say that for setup it does not matter what text is on any card as card text is treated as blank during setup .. and therefore irrelevent

I would say that for setup it does not matter what text is on any card as card text is treated as blank during setup .. and therefore irrelevent

But that's obviously not quite true. The Setup keyword is card text, and it obviously does work during setup. So does Obara Sand PotS. Agendas do have text during setup, or House of Dreams, Knights of the Hollow Hill, Heir to the Iron Throne, The Maester's Path or Alliance wouldn't work. Characters do have traits during setup, or you wouldn't be able to assess if you can legally place attachments like Bloody Scourge, Black Amethysts or the Chain attachments.

I don't mean to be overly critical, I just wanted to point out that there is actually no rule which says that "card text is treated as blank during setup". That's a shorthand players like to use, but it's not an actual rule, and technically, it isn't true either.

It's just that I don't want the "cards are blank during setup" meme to spread too much, lest it creates confusion at some point in the future.

Remember, this is the community that needed to have spelt out for them what a character agenda is, and that insisted that a Wilding character can certainly not be treated as a Wildling character, no sir, because we can never know if FFG won't introduce the Wilding trait in the future, and that Ser Axel Florent and Ser Axell Florent are certainly two different characters, and until the typo is fixed in the FAQ, they can show up to tournaments with three of each in their decks.

I wouldn't put it past some members of the community to hear that "cards are blank during setup" and go like "RAWR! You can't put Black Amethysts on Melisandre, the Setup keyword doesn't work, and besides, Mel isn't an Asshai , because CARDS ARE BLANK DURING SETUP, and I get to place setup cards even while running KotHH, because CARDS ARE BLANK DURING SETUP, blame FFG and their lazy templating, lulz FFG is teh suxxorz!"

Sure, those people would be in for it in this case, because nothing says that cards actually are blank during setup, but we don't want to take any chances with the, uh, literal-minded and not-prone-to-actually-read-the-FAQ part of the community, do we now?

Sorry for the long rant, This has really gone beyond the scope of the original question now, hasn't it?

But the mindless pedantry that sometimes rears its ugly head in this community really drives me nuts.

EDIT: And now that I re-read this post, I realize that me calling other people literal-minded could easily construed as a pot-kettle-black situation. Oh my.

(2.1) Card Effects in Setup

Cards revealed during setup do not trigger card effects. This includes cards that contain the text "When put into play" or "When played from your hand." No actions may be taken during the setup phase.

I suppose the "cards are blank" is a simplification ... not strictly true but I think it is sort of useful ... that you don't have to worry about the text on cards during setup ... except to check play restrictions (Such as No Attachments)

Sorry ... I realise the "rule" is not really correct but it sort of works and makes life easier, in the right context of what "blank" means ... and I am not explaining that too well!!!

It's a helpful rule of thumb - and it has been used in the past to help people get over their attempts to do stuff in Setup that did not specifically say it could be done in Setup. It's just important to remember not to take the rule of thumb literally.