Hey guys, first time poster and long time lurker with a question. I have been in a non-stop argument with a friend of mine for the last 24 hours and was hoping I could gain some clarity from you all, so here it goes.

Hypothetical: After all dice are modified and no critical dice are canceled by any means, Kath Scarlet deals at least 1 critical damage to Chewbacca and because of Chewbacca's ability this card is turned face down.

Claim: because the card is flipped face down and the critical effect is not resolved it is thus canceled and counts as a hit, which causes Chewbacca to take 1 stree token per card flipped this way.

Counter-argument: Page 12 defines result as dice after being modified and canceled as dice results being removed by defense dice, tokens, abilities etc, there is no mention of card results.

It seems pretty cut and dry to me, but I want some outside input to help us resolve this.

Thanks guys!

The counter-argument is correct. If Chewy cancelled the crit it would mean he never suffered the damage from it. In this case, chewy takes the crit damage because it wasn't cancelled and then his pilot ability kicks in, allowing him to flip it facedown.

Claim: because the card is flipped face down and the critical effect is not resolved it is thus canceled and counts as a hit, which causes Chewbacca to take 1 stree token per card flipped this way.

Ok just want to make sure I follow.

You have at least one [crit] result on the dice that isn't canceled. You have one (or more) face up cards dealt to Chewbacca (pilot).

In that case, no Kath's ability wouldn't apply, because the card says [crit] as in from the dice, it mentions nothing about the cards themselves. If they use a [crit] icon as part of the rules they mean exactly that, the dice result itself, not the effect that result causes.

This is similar to the issue people have with Stealth Devices, and what is or is not a hit. Only a uncanceled [hit] or [crit] is considered a hit, the damage done to the target isn't actually relevant.

So to sum up. You didn't cancel the [crit] with an [evade] so Kath's ability does not trigger. This would be the same thing if you used Draw their Fire to pull the crit to a shielded craft.

By your friends logic, if any [crit] cause shields to be lost, rather then deal a damage card, Kath's ability should trigger as well.

As a follow up, this also fits in with some of the damage cards that have a [hit] icon on them, as in roll an attack dice... In those cases if you roll a [crit] it does not count, it has to be a [hit] result.

Claim: because the card is flipped face down and the critical effect is not resolved it is thus canceled and counts as a hit, which causes Chewbacca to take 1 stree token per card flipped this way.

Ok just want to make sure I follow.

You have at least one [crit] result on the dice that isn't canceled. You have one (or more) face up cards dealt to Chewbacca (pilot).

In that case, no Kath's ability wouldn't apply, because the card says [crit] as in from the dice, it mentions nothing about the cards themselves. If they use a [crit] icon as part of the rules they mean exactly that, the dice result itself, not the effect that result causes.

This is similar to the issue people have with Stealth Devices, and what is or is not a hit. Only a uncanceled [hit] or [crit] is considered a hit, the damage done to the target isn't actually relevant.

So to sum up. You didn't cancel the [crit] with an [evade] so Kath's ability does not trigger. This would be the same thing if you used Draw their Fire to pull the crit to a shielded craft.

By your friends logic, if any [crit] cause shields to be lost, rather then deal a damage card, Kath's ability should trigger as well.

Yes, you do follow exactly. Thanks everyone for the quick responses!

Me and my friends have done the claim part for awhile now. Because we learned somewhere that as long as it is the defender who is canceling the crit and not say Kath's ion cannon or hlc, then that defending ship is stressed if it uses dice, tokens, etc to cancel a crit.

Is a pilot ability such as Chewies NOT a defensive.method for canceling crits? We all thought it was.

Is a pilot ability such as Chewies NOT a defensive.method for canceling crits? We all thought it was.

It doesn't cancel a [crit result]. It flips a damage card face down. While those seem similar, mechanically those are distinct.

Yes again, don't confuse the [crit], [hit], or [evade] symbol for the effect it causes. A face up card is the result of an uncanceled [crit] result on a ship with no shields or no shields left.

an uncanceled [crit] against a ship with shields, is still a Hit, and still [crit] result, even though it doesn't cause a face up card to be dealt.

Just like hitting an asteroid can cause a damage card to be dealt to the ship, it's not considered a Hit in rule terms.

In a way, Chewbacca is the exact opposite of canceling a crit, because his ability only kicks in once a critical damage has gotten through.