Im a player in a Dark Heresy game where both me and the GM have growing concerns and frustrations with the effectiveness of explosive weaponry.

TL;DR version

At yesterday's game, we were presented with an encounter where we had to fight a significant number of Orks. Our party of four was in the 1900-2000 exp range and up against a group of 10 orks, 5 gretchens, and a Nob. Suffice to say it should have been an extremely difficult fight for us, and the GM's intention was for us to run away so we could report the Ork presence to our superior and request aid from the Deathwatch. We got a surprise attack, however, and the guardsman ran into the fray while the assassin, the techpriest and the scum all bottle-necked at the room entrance to take cover.

We all wanted to run, but the Guardsman insisted on staying to fight, citing the Infantryman's Primer as his reason for believing that the orks were weak and cowardly, and would each fall in a single blow. Admittedly this guy was pretty remarkably tough (good RNG at creation, we all used completely computer-genned characters, combined with smart use of exp and choice of weapon loadout) but nonetheless he was even admitting OOC that he was almost positive that he was going to die and we should run.

As the techpriest and I ran for our cowardly lives, the Assassin busted out a basic grenade launcher weapon and proceeded to wipe out virtually all of the orks in just a couple of shots. The damage was tremendous, and even though her Ballistics skill was remarkably low (she was built for stealth, not combat), it seems that the blast rules make it virtually *impossible* to miss.

We couldn't find any clear indicator of what happens when a launched grenade misses anywhere in the rulebook, so we treated it like thrown grenades, which on a miss will fall 1-5 meters away in a random direction. With a radius of 4 meters on a typical grenade, however, this means there is an 60% chance of hitting your target even on failure, and compared to most weapons, the 2d10 damage can be tremendous. Many fights now have consisted of her firing a single grenade into a crowd, missing, hitting 5 people anyway for 15 damage each, and the rest of a party masturbating in a corner because they can't afford that kind of weaponry (she got genned as a Noble).

I mostly ask because I know that this particular players has gleaned a reputation for making a beeline for rules that nobody at the table fully understands (we're all new to Dark Heresy) so that we can't call her out on the drawbacks that are supposed to be associated with them. The GM knows that he can fix the problem by giving us a bunch of stuff to do in places where Grenade Launcher use would be frowned upon, but he hates the idea of designing every single mission around "How will I stop Launchers from being OP this time?".

Well, yeah, it's a grenade launcher. Is your GM considering Armor and Toughness of your enemies? In our group, we have very... mixed... experiences with frags being either portable nukes or slightly glorified stones.

Also, the launcher can jam - apply the effects of the grenade-jam and the grenade being a dud, simply... lying there, waiting for something to happen (clever bad guys will run) or blowing up in his/her face (hilarious, even if you're a victim of it)

Furthermore I can think of enemies using Flak-armor (one point more of armor might make a difference) or mercilessly enforcing the rules for carrying-capacity, with each grenade being half a kilo, they can certainly sum up (especially if he isn't the strongest and toughest).

Oh and finally: I do believe most bad guys would know how a grenade launcher looks like, so they might try to rush him in melee/close enough for him to seriously consider using it or simply shoot him dead first.

Edit: And easiest possibility: Don't let the enemies perform a circlejerk which can be frag'd by one grenade every time. Different Angles of approach etc etc. Grenades might not always be available.

The things I can think of right now, ****, it's getting late here. Also, be glad he isn't playing a crimson guard, cause they'd make a noble with a grenade launcher look like an underhive ganger

Unless you're rolling realy well, frag grenades should not do much to Orks. That's 11 average damage, -8 for TB, -3 for the armour (note that it is flak!) if it hits the body. 15 damage to the body should fo 4 Wounds.

Don't forget that Orks have True Grit, which even in the DH version of the talent makes them even tougher.

PS in DH don't you roll damage separately for each person in the blast?

Flak is more effective vs explosives, no? Gives 5 AP instead of 3? Or am I mixing things up?

Flak gets upgraded to AP 5 against weapons with blast. Very good against Frags. Combined with an Orks TB of 8 makes 13 against Frags, theoretically immune against them.

And you can dodge your AG-Bonus in metres, so only the Ork in the middle can't, the others around him should.

GMs for simplicity let the players make 1 roll for the grenade not one per enemy.

But against humans in gang leathers? Very good to clear streets.

It's a fraggin' grenade launcher!

Pun intended.

I don't think Orks Dodge

But yeah, I find frags a little underwhelming. 2d10, no mods. Even a "simple" greatsword does 2d10+SB, and while a greatsword is usually quite lethal, so are frags!

Give 'em tearing to represent all the fragments whirling around.

Flak gets upgraded to AP 5 against weapons with blast. Very good against Frags. Combined with an Orks TB of 8 makes 13 against Frags, theoretically immune against them. And you can dodge your AG-Bonus in metres, so only the Ork in the middle can't, the others around him should. GMs for simplicity let the players make 1 roll for the grenade not one per enemy. But against humans in gang leathers? Very good to clear streets. It's a fraggin' grenade launcher! Pun intended.

Orks have IIRC 2 AP in the body, whih IIRC would increase to 3 against a blast. I think.

Anyway, short story short, frags aren't very good against Orks.

Average damage 11, -8 from TB8 = 3 even assuming no armour, means they take 3 wounds per explosion. That will take 4 hits to get them to 0 wounds. Then their True Grit kicks it and they start taking 2 wounds incread. Statistically, a naked Ork should take about 8 frag grenades before dying.

So what's the issue?

EDIT: Oh wait I get it. The GM is having the Orks die at 0 Wounds, so their True Grit doesn't kick in. Right? Bad idea.

EDIT: frag grenades are not lethal in TT (comparatively), they are about the weakest weapon there is.

Oh you think that frags are OP, that's cute. Do you have a psyker? One with firestorm would burn those orks to cinders in 3 rounds. Also flamers. Inferno shells. Krak grenades would've been better against orks.

Buy some long lases and make your GM cry, and your assasin jealous.

Frag grenades in TT are one of the worst weapons (same damage and Pen as a lasgun). Assuming you want to mimic the TT in any way, they should not be hugely powerful.

A friend gives frag grenades tearing, which gives them the "oomph" they need without making them have a higher max damage.

Just because the book says that the price are 10 for each shot are that not cheep in the long run, not even for a noble that start with getting 500 thrones each MONTH. Beside that are what the book are saying not necessary the final price, Our little group (of 9 acolytes because reasons and it being a public group offered up to the youth in my city) have had to roll a good amount of barter cheeks already, and with her being a stealthy stealthy char am I rather sure that her Fel sucks ass.

Beside that, how many are she allowed to carry around with? They are explosives after all, and if one goes of in the chamber of the launcher am I pretty sure that most GMs would say that the rest are going to explode as well. Beside that does her frag grenades not have any pen, so flank armour are going to suck most of it up