Melee: Double Valar, 3EyedCrow, Stoic Resolve

By LordOWar, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

In a 3 person Melee Game the following plots are revealed

2 copies of Valar Morghulis and 1 copy of Stoic Resolve (knelt characters cannot be killed)

The Stark player has two copies of Call of the Three Eyed Crow in his hand.

He wants to use one copy to save have the Meera Reed he has in play and bring her back into play knelt, and the other to save The Blackfish.

Meera and The Blackfish were the only two characters that the Stark player had in play at the time plots were revealed.

Several questions here.

Does one of the two Valars completely resolve before the other.

Did The Blackfish leave play, and if so, is the timing right for Meera to be able to respond and put herself back in Shadows?

.

Does one of the two Valars completely resolve before the other.

Yes.

Did The Blackfish leave play, and if so, is the timing right for Meera to be able to respond and put herself back in Shadows?

Yes, The Blackfish left play, but since Meera left play at the same time, it's too late for her to put herself back into Shadows.

A number of timing issues to keep in mind:

1. Stoic Resolve, a continuous effect plot, is active from the moment it is revealed.

2. All "when revealed" plot effects must resolve completely before any other passives or Responses can be played.

3. Each individual "when revealed" plot effect resolves completely before the next one initiates (in the order determined by the First Player).

4. Call of the Three Eyed Crow is not a "save" effect. (The word "save" appears nowhere in the text.) As such, it cannot interrupt the initiation and resolution of an effect and any character you want to play it on must actually be killed first.

5. Any card that is removed from play (killed, discarded, returned to Shadows, etc.) cannot use an effect that would remove it from play a second time "on the way out."

Put all that together and your plot phase should have looked like this:

A. All players reveal plots. (Stoic Resolve immediately active.)

B. Count initiative.

C. High initiative chooses First Player.

D. First Player chooses which Valar to resolve first. --> All characters die, unless saved by an effect that actually says "save." The Stark player has non, so both The Blackfish and Meera are dead.

E. The second Valar resolves. --> All characters that were saved from the first Valar die, unless they are saved by a second effect that actually says "save."

F. Other passive effects to anything that happened in A-E are resolved.

G. Responses (that don't use the words "save" or "cancel") to anything that happened in A-F can be used. Both Call of the Three Eyed Crow cards can be used here, but Meera's own "return to Shadows" effect cannot (even though this is the first opportunity she has to use it in response to The Blackfish being killed, she died in D, so it's too late).

Hope that makes sense.

So there is no window to play responses in between each valar (unless it's a save and 3 eyed crow is not), so the Stoic Resolve did not help keep Meera and The Blackfish alive for the 2nd Valar as they were not in play when the 2nd Valar went off.

@LordOWar -

You're right. Between going through each plots "when revealed" effects, there is no Response window for anything outside of Save/Cancel effects. All Responses to what happens during plot resolution happens after all plots are resolved.

So there is no window to play responses in between each valar (unless it's a save and 3 eyed crow is not), so the Stoic Resolve did not help keep Meera and The Blackfish alive for the 2nd Valar as they were not in play when the 2nd Valar went off.

Almost, b ut not quite. Stoic Resolve didn't help, but Meera and The Blackfish *were* in play - they were just Moribund: Dead at the time.

OK, so they were still standing and in play when the 2nd Valar went off. The 2nd Valar didn't change their status of Moribund:deadpile. Then once that Valar resolved then the response from 3 eyed crow occurred. Am I finally getting it right ?

Yup!