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One of the reasons you will see them in most fleets is that they are cheap, therefore easy to throw in at the end. I think there is always a bias towards more fleets containing a cheap ship or cheap squadrons because when you build a fleet, it's what you can fit in the "remainder" portion. So to that end, I don't know that seeing a lot of them is bad. It might -
So you are saying your opponent would have received zero damage if they had equipped Cluster bombs? .... -
I'm curious to see how prominent the slicer tools become. If they're common, I need wing commanders on my carriers. However, upgrades like wing commanders are likely to push out slicer tools from the meta. Then we stop taking them and the slicer tools come back! AAAARGH! -
Right now they are the new toy and people will take them just to see what happens. For what I can tell there is a tipping point where you'll have too many and not enough hard hitters. -
And, given the nature of the conversation - how many Squadrons do those Gladiators and TRCRs sling?Sometimes its not about the Dice. Sometimes its TOTALLY about the Dice. But I don't know if this is the case -
I think that this boosts activation counts and could take the game to a dark place given the current hard-on for that sort of stuff. Given that, I'm excited but still underwhelmed. Maybe I just feel that support ships (especially in the effort to throw shields to other ships) falls flat. -
After a second look, I'm wondering if I can get away with just Leia on a GR-75 as a backup and forgo wing commanders.
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I was just gonna stick H9s on my assault frigate and be done with it.
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With the introduction of Pass Tokens, I don't think flotillas will be as popular in Rebel and Imperial fleets as before, because while Fleet Support was useful, a lot of players just used them for cheap activations. Pass Tokens might not render flotillas obsolete, but the Fleet Support slot will probably be their main draw going forward. That should mean there's less need of Republic and Separatist flotillas with the Fleet Support slot. The Fleet Support slot can be given to any ship, like the Consular Corvette with the Radiant VII ship title. Many players predict that the unrevealed Hardcell Transport will have a Fleet Support slot (the revealed Battle Refit doesn't); we shouldn't have to wait too much longer to find out. Before the Radiant VII was revealed, many Armada players speculated that the Republic Pelta would have Fleet Support. Since Radiant ... unique ship title, I think it's still likely that the Republic Pelta will have Fleet Support. I think FFG just needed to give the Republic (and probably the Separatists) 1 ship with Fleet Support at the launch of Clone Wars Armada, and that should tide us over until the Republic Pelta is released -- supposedly in January. That doesn't necessarily mean there won't be flotillas for the Republic and Separatist factions, but it relieves the urgency for them. I'd like to see Fleet Support become available on larger ships than flotillas and small ships. I understand why Fleet Support was limited to flotillas originally, but that restriction doesn't seem necessary anymore. Fleet Support seems like something that ships like the MC80 Command Cruiser, Interdictor, Nebulon-B Support Refit, or a version of an ISD could do. If the Ship Cards are ever updated and released -
Sunday I won the local SC. One opponent (2nd place) had bta, 4 goz and squads. I killed all 4 flotillas, using stuff like Maarek/Jendon, IO Demo (quite effective, if old school), my own bta and leading shots. If you expect flotillas, include stuff that is good at killing flotillas - but also otherwise useful. If their flotillas spread out, focus down their combat ships. Actively chasing flotillas rarely prove cost effective. If they clump to support the main vessel, pick them off. Yes, this happens too. Especially if flotillas are needed for flak to swing the balance of the squad game -
Talking with some friends regard the state of the game and the ups and downs of flotillas. What if flotillas could not be objective ships and did not count towards your capital ship count. Meaning if all you had left were flotillas you lost, with the caveat that you didn't give the full 400pts. I think this would be a good way of addressing the 7+flotilla builds that people are worried about. I love armada, but emphasis on activations with 1 big activation and the bidding for first is kind of a negative immersion experience. Now I am not complaining about the state of the game, GenCon proved that lists that aren't flotilla spam can do well and it does heavily rely on who is flying it. The other thought was what if Flotilla PT costs were caped like squadrons? Thoughts -
this point, how many conversations regarding flotillas do we need to have? Is there a fresh issue regarding flotillas that hasn't already been debated to death in some other thread? Flotillas themselves haven't changed, only that a commander can no longer be on one. That was always a non issue with me as I never put my commander on a flotilla. When I played against someone who did...I didn't really care as it was "within" the rules of the game. I guess I just don't see the problem some people have with a 18-23pt. ship that has very little to no firepower. I love flotillas and everything they have brought to Armada. They have so many roles to fill in a fleet and I am still discovering new ways to use them every day. Edited August 29, 2017 by itzSteve -
disagree that flotillas are easy to kill. When a ship is loaded correctly to kill they they certainly can, however, flotillas often do not need to be any where near weapons range to contribute their non-sensical benefit of activation padding to the fight (Relay only make this worse). Ships only get to fire a max of 12 shots in a game, realistically only 10 time since turn 1 is usually a non-combat turn. every time a ship fires at a flotilla they are using resources. Flotillas should never have been given a scatter token that way all ships have a good chance of swatting them, not only the specialized ones. It is super hard to win a game by killing enough flotillas. they are way to cheap for what they allow -
agree but its still healthy to have a conversation regard flotillas. flotillas rules have already changed. I agree you need flotilla killers but at what point do you take a step back and go "maybe these are causing some issues and need to be re-defined" You needed flotilla hunters when you could put your admiral on them, so why did they fix that
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Gladiator won't do that though. Gladiator doesn't have to worry about the Flotilla as an offensive threat after it activates, and before it activates if it isn't on an intercept course the Flotilla can't both easily activate squadrons (it's only real offensive threat) AND move to intercept. Further, unlike the Gladiator, the only speed 4 flotilla isn't nearly as maneuverable and will need to telegraph such an action well in advance, allowing Demolisher to dodge or another ship more suited to the task to take out the Flotilla -
outlier. I am seeing more and more 3/4 flotilla builds and I admittedly run a 3 flotilla build and they just circle and push squadrons via relay. Relay may be really bad for the game in hindsight. I played a game at a Store Champ sat. I lost my 2 real ships, but through the flotillas and squadrons killed my enemies ships to win the game. I had no way to actually deal with his fleet, I was just running and squadroning via relay to pick him apart. I guess its part of the game but I do think that there should be more of a negative to flotillas
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Well know that I'm "Brain Storming"... Which of two suggestions is best? 1: The first ship activated can't be a Flotilla, unless there is only Flotilla's left to activate in the fleet. Or 2: The last ship activated can't be a Flotilla, unless there is only two Flotilla's left to activate in the fleet. Edited August 10, 2017 by Kiwi -
Honestly, and this is with no actual play experience just immediate opinion, I feel Rebels did.While the Gozanti Cruiser is nice, the amount of firepower any Flotilla can possibly bring is minuscule and the Gozantis' (relatively) high costs seem disproportionate with what they feel like they can do; especially 28pts for jumping up a single dice arc to...a single less reliable but longer range dice.The GR75 provides the same level of fleet support (good Squad command potential, same value on the other upgrades) but, again considering all of their miniscule damage output, the ability to apply the various new buffs like Repair Crews or the debuffs (like Slocer Tools) far more cheaply seems like it will be far more effective.A GR75 with Slicer Tools is far MN ore palatable to toss into the path of that looming ISD when it's costing only 25pts, versus the Gozanti ... Sure it's only a 5pts difference, but when there are multiple Flotillas introduced, or the various upgrades that could be taken, the cheaper nature of the GR75 is simply better.Basically, the Flotillas are fleet support, through and through, and the tiny increase in firepower that the Gozanti brings, in my untested estimation, will likely play far less of a role than simply having a cheaper support ship that lets your line ships do the work with more/better tools.I'm hoping my initial assessment is wrong, it just seems that the Gozanti just don't bring enough firepower to be of substantial value (relative to their points, of course) and don't offer better support for the Imperials than the GR75s do for the Rebels -
think flotillas are the answer to the high activation fleet problem. We can now use our big ship fleets and use flotillas to pad our activation up. I think the most of them we'll see is a TRC-90 plus flotilla fleet, and maybe replacing a couple of raiders in Clones masterpiece. I'm thinking of Demolisher with Suppressor with repair crews flying with -
thinking about it last night, and I think Raddus might end up as a soft counter to flotilla activation padding. The ability to get your flotilla hunter into position and shooting at them really, really fast (GT Liberty in your backfield at the opening of turn 2) will help with rolling back the tide of activation padding. We also have only seen a very few of the upgrades in this wave. Before we start proposing even more sweeping rules changes, let's see what FFG has already done to address this. They fixed the Demo triple tap menace, the useless VSD2, and the impotent bomber problems of previous waves--I have no doubt the fix for flotilla activation padding is in this wave -
sorry...but this whole flotilla debate yet again? This is a old and tired complaint. If flotillas are a problem for you, then bring something to the table to deal with them. Activation advantage is not going away, and the rules to the game are not going to change. There are plenty of ways to kill flotillas quickly to negate activation advantage. You need to adapt your play style to the game, the game will not adapt to yours
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Correct. They are considered a Ship for all Rules, with one singular exception (Collisions). Ships are further Defined by the Size of their base. IN this case, it is a Small-Base ship (whose dimensions will match the statement.) Until they release something with a different base size, we continue to have "Small", "Medium" and "Large" Ships. Ergo A Gozanti Flotilla is, for all intents and purposes (barring Collisions), a Small Ship, and will benefit from all of the positives and negatives that entail a Small Ship. Although there are some people who doubt this, this is the only reading of the applicable rules that I can come up with. Indeed, as it is, the Flotilla rules are not restricted to the small size as it is... You could technically have a Flotilla of Large Ships if you want, representing some ships that are Large Enough, but Too Fragile
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players that are taking flotillas to allow for their larger ship(s) to be able to activate when they want are still paying for that ability. Flotillas can be picked off fairly easily, which directly reduces the effectiveness of their stalling ability, the trick is to not allow them to also use their flotilla as bait traps that move you into position -
could make it an upgrade card. Offensive Retrofit, 10 points. "Up to 2 (1?) squadrons activated by this ship can use their anti-squadron armament when attacking a ship (or just flotilla?)" This would force flotillas to have an escort standing by and it would be a hard choice to take as an upgrade - expensive, occupies that O Retro slot, and only affects a limited number of squads
