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actually, just about everyone. So, you can pay five XP and get Vibrobayonet and Crushing Blow. Vibrobayonet is actually pretty decent, as it'll usually get you two extra damage and a bleed. Except it costs a mod slot, so you probably could have just taken a proper gun mod and used that instead, which works for every attack you make, and come out not far behind anyway? And of course, it forces Biv to use a gun with a mod slot, which can cause it's own issues. Crushing Blow does give two pretty good surges, so it actually makes the Yellow dice pretty useful. It's definitely the most attractive thing about C&P, but even then it'll become less useful in comparison as the campaign progresses when you can start buying guns with similar surges. Now, assuming you've taken both of these, you've used ... being the 'tanky'....This is what I found to be his main advantage, but he's not so amazingly good at it compared to other characters that it makes him worthwhile (mainly because you can't actually 'draw aggro' in any real way). Other characters with better healing abilities (e.g. Gaarkhan/Fenn) or defensive abilities (e.g. Verena) can be equally tanky, especially if you buy them armour. Whether being able to buy Biv's with XP is an advantage probably comes down to how you value it vs credits....But even if Biv is hard to kill, is it relevant? Yes, I found that Biv was often very hard to kill, but his deficiencies in other areas meant he was mainly a distraction rather than a threat to the Imperials. Which leads into his final issue - Biv basically doesn't do anything except single target damage and soaking up hits -
little discussion in my group last time we played a campaign. I, as Biv, had been using Close and Personal on an opponent and wanted to finish him off with Stay Down, which allows Biv to perform the melee attack again against the same foe. When the dice was rolled whether I killed him or not depended entirely on whether I was allowed to use the Vibrobayonet with Stay Down or not. Eventually it was allowed by the imperial player and meant that I took down an otherwise uninjured Boba Fett in one activation, which the imperial player thought made Biv quite overpowered. Question is whether this was legal or not. On one hand Stay Down says "...after you resolve Close and Personal..." and the Vibrobayonet is only used with close and personal. On the other hand the Vibrobayonet is a part of the weapon and it doesn't make ... sense that it somehow cannot be used for the second melee attack (would Biv be taking it off between the attacks?). Also you could argue that when allowed to do the melee attack from Close and Personal again you should be allowed to use the same abilities again as long as they are not exhausted or in other fashion restricted from being used a second time. Also, you need 8 XP to get these two cards, so it's supposed to be good cards I think. Anyone knows the exact rules on this and perhaps an explanation of why it is so? Edited January 1, 2018 by Kjaerhus -
Long term lurker on these forums but this thread and similar annoy me. This drivel that Biv is not so good because he has no other abilities other than being good at killing stuff is just that drivel. Biv is as Talamare states above is indeed one of the best DPS characters and of course is also very tanky. He also fills a DPS slot while requiring much less in the way of gear than almost any other DPS hero meaning you can spend your credits on other characters that need the gear more. The credit thing can not be underestimated a standard campaign you simply do not have the credits to equip even 3 heroes as you would like never mind 4 and this is particularly important if you pick heroes that start off weak. You want Fenn to have that best gun and armour your next ... have the next best gun etc. frankly unless your winning every mission and getting every crate you cannot afford it. I know that we have large numbers on the board that have Biv down as one of the worst heroes but for me in a balanced group he is one of the best. For the record my strongest group would be Gideon, Fenn, Dahlia and Biv and even in that group Dahlias place is a gamble on getting and winning a couple of side missions. Edited October 14, 2017 by domiuk -
think for Saska that works pretty well, but maybe not for Biv. Their power level would be pretty easy to bump up - for each of them, just decrease the cost of their primary ability by 1 strain, or improve their base stats, or give them some free credits/XP to start (or give them their rewards as you suggested) and they're probably doing quite well. But I think that, in addition to their lower power level, they just don't feel as good to play as other characters. Their core abilities don't always have a meaningful impact (Biv's CQ attack can do 0 damage before he upgrades it, or Saska's token can end up granting a wasted surge), and they have limited mobility. And their abilities don't feel like they combine effectively - you can buy a bunch of new things to do with Saska's device ... tokens, but since you can only give out 1 (or later 2) per round, and you have to discard them to use the abilities, using a device token ends up having a high opportunity cost. Biv can get several upgrades for his C&P melee attack, to the point where you kill enemies with the melee attack and end up wasting the ranged attack. Fixing their power level to make them competitive is probably just a matter of giving them free stats, credits, or XP, but fixing their power level in a way that makes them fun, interesting and cohesive characters is a lot harder. Edit: Maybe one simple way to make them feel better and be more powerful is just to change the timing of their core abilities - for Biv, let him do the Melee attack of C&P for 2 strain after resolving a ranged attack -
Honest. Most of us bought Twin Shadows for one reason, Boba Fett, even when we knew his mini wasn't in the box! It was a fun idea, the mini campaign and when I played it I thought Biv and Saska were a bit, well, underwhelming. I have played with and against Saska and she is OK. Like Abyss said, a bit here, a bit there. One of the things that often gets overlooked is her native speed. She can be a great door open and crate searcher, whilst giving a little bit to others with her device tokens as she runs past. She's a good, character if you are bored with all the mass slayings like with Verna, Fenn or Diala and you fancy a bit of a challenge. And her ability to super mod any gun can be so much fun. Biv on the other hand, well ... point where he was able to do Close & Personal a lot more often. Then I purchased him a Bacta injector and he was regularly able to keep the C&P rolling. Then I chose only passive skills and not ones associated with C&P; Advance, Shake it off, Into the fray and Trophy Armour. These let him get into the mix and stay there. I found that despite the history of playing with Biv and lamenting my choice, this time I found his character to be quite fun. OK so some will say "But you had to do a whole lot to make him even playable!" Sure, but sometimes isn't that what you want as an experienced player? A bit of a challenge? How do I get the most out of a "weak" character. I do enjoy such a challenge and whilst Biv will (probably) never -
probably seen Biv Bodhrik from the first preview of Twin Shadows. But let's get into more detail about him. Without knowing what his starting weapon or class cards are, he looks a bit like a mix of Fenn Signis and Gaarkhan, in that he is a high-health guy who has a mix of melee and ranged abilities. His basic stats are all pretty good, except for his insight skill, which is as bad as it can be. Of course, the main event when talking about Biv is his Close and Personal ability. For 2 strain and an action, you can make a red/yellow melee attack and follow it up with a ranged attack from your gun. It's powerful enough on it's own, possibly giving you three attacks in a turn if an enemy is foolish enough to stand too close to you. Because the two attacks ... strain free to initiate the ability. The red/yellow melee attack will become less useful as you start running into enemies with higher defenses, like Darth Vader, either walker, the Royal Guard Champion, or IG-88. It will be best used against mid-range miniatures, like the new Heavy Stormtroopers, elite Probe Droids, and either version of Nexu or Trandoshan Hunters. His other ability, Deadly Precision, might not come into play a lot, because Biv is probably going to take a lot of strain moving around and using Close and Personal. But every once in a while, you'll roll minimum damage with one of your dice and come up one damage short of killing your enemy, and that's when Deadly Precision can shine. So, speculation time. What do you think Biv's starter weapon will be like? Any ideas for what his class cards might do? Personally, looking -
watched your video Rich, and Biv shot, put 6 on Luke, then took two attacks to the face and died, and that was with his extra defensive rule in full effect.My experience is similar, except I always make sure I get a close combat double attack out of him at least. But with a black die and his conditional extra defense, he basically dies to two elite Stormtroopers, and that's not good for 9 pts (see Estormies) I want to like the guy and use him, just like I want to use Saska, Loku, Chewbacca, Han, etc, but they just don't justify their cost Chewie and Han are going to get more than one attack and activation because of their health, figures like Biv, Jyn, Loku, Saska, usually don't. If Biv was 4-5 pts, you could use him as a suicide attack, go put serious damage -
Biv is terrible. His ability is garbage, and his deck is full of stuff that you can buy to make it less garbage, so you're spending all this XP just to make him kind of on par with the low end of what other characters get to do. And if you ignore that stuff, you get....more garbage. Seriously, the one time I played Biv, I didn't want to use C&P, and I simply couldn't find enough stuff to spend his XP on because it was all rubbish. He's both underpowered and extremely boring IMO. Saska, on the other hand, is okay. But people have to understand that she's the classic 'Bard' character - she's okay at a lot of little things, but she's not going to be making 'big' plays. She's not going to be one shotting bosses or taking ... them the option to change them. The point of the game is to have fun, and it's easy enough to work out XP and stuff to trade out characters. But if that's not an option, I don't think a one time bonus incentive really works as most of their 'issues' will hang around long after any incentive is used. Honestly, I think the only way I'd get someone to play Biv outside of house ruling his cards is by giving them the biggest and best gun at every level so he can at least pretend to be competitive (and then not let them just give it to any other fighter who would use it better than
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used by the ability. By the 3rd mission you should have bought Vibro to have it's damage EXPLODE, making it deal damage equal to T3 weapons. That's right, you're still in T1 missions dealing damage as if you're waving a T3 Weapon. There aren't any T1 Mods that can do that, besides even if it existed the fact you don't need it is even better for the team. Biv's starting gun is second only in damage to Gaarkhan's Weapon. Biv's "support" is based on the idea of Shock and Awe. You crash into the enemy lines, make yourself a target, kill the most dangerous one in the bunch, have your team clean up the scraps. That's why Final Stand exists, and it works considering how the Threat system works. If the Imperial Player spends a chunk of threat to bring ... something powerful and Biv wrecks it before it gets a chance to screw the team, then he has accomplished his goal. Overall, an ideal blend of Burst Damage + Tankiness with just a sprinkle of range. but if you're going to play him, and not use C&P... Then I go back to my original quote... It's like you're trying to play Sniper Gaarkhan and wondering why it's failing -
IIRC, it has to do with the fact that his regular weapon is a Ranged Weapon with Ranged Weapon upgrades on it. When Biv does Close & Personal, he is making a Melee attack. Luke, and Biv's skirmish card, can spend these surges on their melee attacks because they are part of their character abilities as written between the portrait and the other info. However for the Campaign, the surge abilities come from the weapons themselves, and you may not use a ranged weapon for a melee attack, or include any ranged weapon modifications. He may use abilities that come from Character Cards (Gideon's surge for Stun being an example) and some come from Class cards (Biv's Crushing Blow card, for instance), and he gets that or the Vibroblade (which IS a ranged weapon modification, however it states right on the card "While using Close and Personal -
have yet to play with Biv or against him, and I've seen several references to his not being able to use surges with close and personal. I see nothing that states this.Close and personal -> 2 strain: perform a melee attack with red and yellow dice, then perform an attack on the same figure with a ranged weapon. I assume people are referring to the campaign version of Biv and simply noting that there is no weapon associated with the melee attack, but he would still be using a weapon for the ranged attack and then be able to use surges for that attack.Skirmish Biv should be able to use his surge abilities with both attacks. Am I missing something -
good gun, use the tokens on herself just as much if not more than giving her out. Saska w Disruptor Pistol, Tac Display, & Plasma Cell competes with Gunslinger Jyn and Point Blank Shot Vereena. Her main problem is she doesnt generally get "good" until the late stages of campaign, and competition with other ranged heroes for the good ranged mods. I played her in a campaign with 2 melee and she shined. Biv Biv's ability, once you upgrade it with skills is very strong for single target dmg and strain management is the key to leveraging his strength. Bacta Pump is very good on him and I also highly recommend pairing him with MHD-19. MHD can fetch the strain reducing medical cards and also Painkillers, which is amazing on Biv. Unfortunately, Bacta Pump and MHD only take him so far and is still hurt by a lack -
really like Biv and have been using him lately. His health is really a drawback... based on his cost. I had Biv get one one shot -
think Biv is strong against Burst Damage Decks like Military Might and Hutt Mercenaries. On top on having a lot of HP himself, Final Stand can be used in a round where the Imperial Player puts a lot on the table. Contrary to the name, in many cases using it at the beginning of the game is a sometimes a good option. It doesn't seem fancy and having to deplete a 4xp cards seems weak, but as an Imperial Player, it's hard to recover if Biv takes two expensive units out. Saska doesn't feel powerful, because her ability is a trickle down effect, but she got a boost with some weapons in Jabbas Realm. You won't feel great if Valera uses your device token to get that Surge to enable her chain combo. I didn't try it, but her Energy Shield might be fantastic against -
hoping someone can clarify this for me before the weekend. My group and I are well into our 4th campaign, and we are all mostly well-versed in descent 2nd edition. We could not reach a consensus regarding Biv's hero ability 'Close and personal' and his 4xp class card 'Final stand'. I am playing Biv, and I have been consistently using his close and personal, straining twice for movement, then using my second action to deplete 'final stand', which allows me to move my speed, recover my endurance value, and perform close and personal without paying its action or strain cost. Our IP decided he didnt like having his best units in a room start off dead, or bleeding, stunned, and weakened, so he has convinced my fellow rebels that I've been playing this illegally b/c I cant perform the same special action (close and personal) twice -
From Twin Shadows rulebook:Some abilities allow a figure to perform an attack with a different attack type and attack pool than their normal attack.- When a hero performs an attack using an attack pool unrelated to his weapons (such as the melee attack from “Close and Personal” on Biv Bodhrik’s Hero Sheet), he cannot use any abilities from his weapons during that attack.- When a figure corresponding to a Deployment card performs an attack using an alternate attack pool (such as the melee attack from “Close and Personal” on Biv Bodhrik’s Deployment card), they may still trigger their surge abilities, unless the ability triggering the attack states otherwise -
Biv is easily one of the Top DPS 3 characters in the game, and he does that while being around the Top 3 Tank characters in the game. Yea, he is a little strain heavy. Tho you can easily get around that by spending Surge to recover Strain. I laugh at the guy who posted saying that Biv is garbage because he personally doesn't use C&P... Lol, That's like saying Gaarkhan is garbage because he is bad at long range
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wonder if Biv will be better now with access to Power Tokens? If you have 2 +1 damage power tokens, you can unload them all in one action with C&P. I think Biv is pretty decent, though as others have said you need to support him pretty heavily with Strain relief. One thing I think he could use is an ability that lets him take advantage of buffing the melee attack of C&P more. If you attack anything small with C&P after buying some buffs for it, there's a pretty good chance you kill it with just the melee attack. What if he had an ability that said: "Exhaust this card after you defeat a figure with the melee attack of C&P. You may perform the ranged attack of C&P targeting another figure in your line of sight
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Makes me wonder if we will ever see an errata for Biv and Saska at one point. Mind you, the only hero that has been altered so far is Jyn (and that was simply to clarify her Opportunist ability). Not the biggest fan of house rules, but it would be fun to get these two on the table more. A user suggested giving them their reward cards off the start. Not a bad idea! Biv: Hunt Them Down Saska: Tech Goggles Edited October 26, 2017 by Armandhammer -
find it interesting that Biv's right arm armour looks like it's from a Stormtrooper and has an orange shoulder pad with a "painted" Rebel Alliance logo on it : Maybe, this whole Twin Shadows name is tied to Biv and this Kayn Somos? One betrayed the other and is now "Vengeful" or it could be a nod to Tatooine's twin suns, having a play on how dangerous things get after dark . . . Anyway, it's all pretty intriguing to me. Edited March 20, 2015 by The Black -
Damage tokens are fairly universal. They wont help Biv any more than any other hero. Now, if Biv could get his hand on surge tokens, he could probably make good use of them
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like this *very* much. This might be the cleanest "upgrade" to Biv I've seen - apart from changing most of his other abilities a lot or a little. I might try this change the next time someone considers Biv as their hero -
played the 5th mission in Jabba's Realm last night. We have 40% win rate in this campaign. Biv took out a ST, 2 eST, a power cell and Talon essentially by himself, and grabbed a free crate via Loku. Loku was the only hero not to be wounded so he ran for cover. MHD-19 killed 1 eST grabbed a crate and healed Biv. Mak Killed 2 Jet Troopers and Officer and at the midway point of round 5 blew up the 2nd power cell for the win. The Rancor wounded Mak but that was it for him. The Royal Guards were unable to make Mak withdraw before blowing up the power cell. Fun times. Was getting a little discouraged with our losing streak, but I have A re'New'ed Hope -
played Biv. His big advantage is doing lots of damage to single characters. If you're getting swarmed by hired guns and troopers and nexu, he feels very useless. But if you're playing against Nemeses and you know you will be seeing a lot of the likes of Vader, or any other high health high armour enemies, then he's useful. I was doing a huge amount of damage with each attack. But our Imperial player countered that with the Royal Guard Champion and kept rolling dodges. I would say his primary ability with the right weapons, is pretty awesome in how much damage he can deal. But he's a one trick pony that gets taken down quickly by cheap units -
exactly as I envisioned Biv to be. Awesome work! Now to think of a community fix for his substandard abilities