Folks,
So, let’s start talking about what you’d like to see in my Daqan expansion. To get the discussion going, I’d like to capture folks ideas on strengths, weaknesses, and things you think will be fun.
Feel free to share your idea for a card or two- all efforts will be credited where possible
ballista with range greater than 5, could be tank-like. Only single trays, with possible upgrades (like fire, magic, multi-shot, shooting over units). one hit against each tray that shot would come through.
golems could buy upgrades for half of normal cost. Or Enhanced Golems: for 50%points more they could have -1 to initiative, and +1 move on all actions plus +1 blue dice. real glass cannonball.
Oathsworn squires : mounted xbowmen, one white dice in melee but 2 red while shooting. shooting every other round (place token to mark it)
Instead of + 1 defence they could add + 1 blue dice. Shot or melee, anytime oathsworn would melee.
Love it! Keep ‘em coming. I was talking with one of my friends who has a 3-D printer. He’s thinking he can digitize the Siege Golem from Battlelore, scale it up, and actually print a model for his own use. That thing would be able to fire longer than Range 5 for sure!
Since you're trying to stick to cards only, I love the idea of having multiple options for each unit in the game. For example, having multiple different "Daqan Spearmen" cards which have different cost/formations/abilities. It'd be fun to choose between fielding a bunch of cheap "fresh recruit" spearmen vs the basic spearmen vs and "Elite" formation of spearmen. This could apply to all units (maybe an "ancient" golem with more health) and to all factions.
See, I didn’t even think of it like that. I was strictly coming up with a couple of unique units, but a veteran unit with different upgrades (or a green unit with lesser abilities) could be an option as well. That’s why I wanted to reach out to the forum to get ideas. I know they’re out there, so don’t be shy...
Thanks for the posts!
As far as I'm concerned, Crossbows are probably THE defining faction strength in Daqan. Their dial is great, they get the perfect upgrades, and the 3x1 is extremely efficient. Kari, despite her flaws, is also a very powerful ranged threat. I would be extremely careful about giving Daqan any more ranged effects, or they could tip into that horrible gunline zone. Personally, I was always more interested in the aggressive elements of the list:
I'd definitely like to see a Daqan artifact that rewards front-line hero play. Something like spend an inspiration token during a melee attack to give all friendlies at range 1-3 Lethal for the rest of the round? Some sort of challenge blade perhaps, that lets you peek at your target's dial and if they don't have a melee attack dialed in you get bonus damage? It doesn't need to be as powerful as Dimodian Blades, but something in a similar "generally useful offensive item" vein would be cool.
Awesome ideas. This is the perspective I want to get to make sure we don’t tip things one way or the other. We can definitely increase list building options without breaking the game.
On 5/9/2019 at 4:33 PM, sarumanthewhite said:Love it! Keep ‘em coming. I was talking with one of my friends who has a 3-D printer. He’s thinking he can digitize the Siege Golem from Battlelore, scale it up, and actually print a model for his own use. That thing would be able to fire longer than Range 5 for sure!
That would be incredible. Imagine the Roc Rider too!
I know. Unfortunately, the Latari get screwed, but they will be getting some new units anyway. The Sylaneth line from Age of Sigmar is the right scale for certain units like the Dryads and the Colossal Tree (my name, not theirs).
Elite Pikemen. If attacker touches any part of any tray of a first row, strike before attacker, with one more red dice and protected 2. If attacker does not touch any tray of the first row, fragile 2 (add 2 to lossess) and can not counterattack, cost 40 % more than spearmen, in-built champion (owner 's choice, no additional cost, but non-hero).
Action: can reform to or out of square formation. (special token). Having this, unable to move, treat all sides like front row (cannnot be outflanked)
This is another good idea. Our group has a similar desire. I was thinking of an ability called, “Set vs. Charge” Makes it riskier to charge them. I need to distinguish this from File Leader, though. Added to the list...
Keep ‘em coming guys!
42 minutes ago, sarumanthewhite said:This is another good idea. Our group has a similar desire. I was thinking of an ability called, “Set vs. Charge” Makes it riskier to charge them. I need to distinguish this from File Leader, though. Added to the list...
Well, when I proposed this, I got HWFO in return.
How would you go about doing this without changing the dial? Because I'm having trouble seeing how you would do this without a low-initiative action, or essentially duplicating file leader.
2 hours ago, Xelto said:Well, when I proposed this, I got HWFO in return.
How would you go about doing this without changing the dial? Because I'm having trouble seeing how you would do this without a low-initiative action, or essentially duplicating file leader.
Not sure what “HWFO” is, but we’re not looking to exclude anyone here. You clearly know the game and we need your wisdom on this subject, so post away, I’m all ears and eyes... 😀
I can only think that it would have to be an ability that triggers outside of the normal initiative sequence like, “when charged...” or “at the end of the command phase...” To distinguish it from File Leader, perhaps the unit could receive an Immobilize token representing the more determined positioning. Limiting it to Spearmen only would make it more thematic, but if it’s not “self-balancing”, then you’ve increased their value without increasing their cost.
I’m leaning to “At the end of the Command phase” as I don’t like the idea of the unit moving or doing anything else that turn. If you make the announcement before dials are revealed, then folks will just dance around it, making it somewhat useless, I guess.
Thoughts, anyone???
1 hour ago, sarumanthewhite said:Not sure what “HWFO” is, but we’re not looking to exclude anyone here. You clearly know the game and we need your wisdom on this subject, so post away, I’m all ears and eyes... 😀
Hand-Waving Freak Outery. I like the idea, and have for a long time, but when I suggested something like it, a number of dedicated players shot it down as dumbing down the game and limiting the value of maneuvering and initiative.
Personally, I don't see it that way, but there was enough opposition that I didn't push the issue.
Thanks for that explanation. I can now say that I’ve learned something today!
So, I think that if it’s done properly, it provides another dimension to the maneuvering and initiative game. If it’s a benefit that you “just get”, then it would lead to potential abuse, but if you’re giving up something to get that benefit, then it’s just another choice in the process.
I feel that with the current state of affairs, there’s a last-first effect where you stay outside of something’s range, rush in late in the turn, and then rush the remaining distance before they can react. For those Armada players, Governor Pryce comes to mind... 😫
My feeling is that if we limited it to Spearmen right now (with possibly other units if it’s not broken), and made it something declared after dials are placed but before they’re revealed, it would have the right balance on the order guessing game.
From there, I would give the unit an Immobilize token since it takes time to come out of the formation and I wouldn’t give the bonus versus a flank since you have to get a concentration of spears pointing in a direction to have the desired effect. Both of these restrictions provide a trade-off to using the turtling while still rewarding good maneuvering by the opponent. Now you have to still guard your flank...
With these restrictions, I then ask myself if the proposed effect actually creates and interesting dynamic or if it’s a lot of complication for something that will get ignored. Here I feel that it rewards good terrain and unit positioning as you could hold a narrow gap between two pieces of terrain with a well placed Spearmen unit. Again, it adds another level of gameplay.
Finally, if you don’t like Spearmen turtling up, you can always bring a ranged unit to shoot them- they’re not going anywhere... 😎
I’d love to get some other veteran’s take on this...
3 hours ago, sarumanthewhite said:My feeling is that if we limited it to Spearmen right now (with possibly other units if it’s not broken), and made it something declared after dials are placed but before they’re revealed, it would have the right balance on the order guessing game.
From there, I would give the unit an Immobilize token since it takes time to come out of the formation and I wouldn’t give the bonus versus a flank since you have to get a concentration of spears pointing in a direction to have the desired effect.
I think an immobilize might be a bit too much for the effect. When you do this, after all, you're committing to not doing anything during the turn, and it's quite possible your opponent won't charge you after all.
Stun and fear don't seem to fit thematically. Maybe make a new type of bane ("slow") that reduces your next initiative by two, and/or prevents you from making any long charges the next turn? Or require the unit to spend an inspiration token to be able to make this maneuver?
3 hours ago, Xelto said:I think an immobilize might be a bit too much for the effect. When you do this, after all, you're committing to not doing anything during the turn, and it's quite possible your opponent won't charge you after all.
Stun and fear don't seem to fit thematically. Maybe make a new type of bane ("slow") that reduces your next initiative by two, and/or prevents you from making any long charges the next turn? Or require the unit to spend an inspiration token to be able to make this maneuver?
Here’s what I came up with until I read your comment.
Equipment - Daqan Only
Phalanx Materiel - Spearmen Only- After the Command phase, you may exhaust this card to give the attached unit the following ability: After an enemy unit collides with your front edge, you may perform a melee attack targeting that enemy before any other action by that unit. That attack gains + 1 Hit and Surge = Mortal Strike. While this card is exhausted, cancel all Shift and Movement actions by that unit.
This restriction would force the unit to rally (costing them an action- pretty severe), burn an inspiration token or have a nearby Rallying Cornicen. The last two methods effectively allow them to circumvent the penalty at the cost of using the Inspiration token for something else. Forcing them to rally effectively keeps their total number of actions neutral as they got a free attack on the charge.
I also made the card an Equipment card to prevent any Wind Rune shenanigans and a lethal combo with Tempered Steel, Visored Helms, or Shield Wall.
Let me know what you think...
On 5/13/2019 at 7:45 PM, sarumanthewhite said:Here’s what I came up with until I read your comment.
Equipment - Daqan Only
Phalanx Materiel - Spearmen Only- After the Command phase, you may exhaust this card to give the attached unit the following ability: After an enemy unit collides with your front edge, you may perform a melee attack targeting that enemy before any other action by that unit. That attack gains + 1 Hit and Surge = Mortal Strike. While this card is exhausted, cancel all Shift and Movement actions by that unit.
This restriction would force the unit to rally (costing them an action- pretty severe), burn an inspiration token or have a nearby Rallying Cornicen. The last two methods effectively allow them to circumvent the penalty at the cost of using the Inspiration token for something else. Forcing them to rally effectively keeps their total number of actions neutral as they got a free attack on the charge.
I also made the card an Equipment card to prevent any Wind Rune shenanigans and a lethal combo with Tempered Steel, Visored Helms, or Shield Wall.
Let me know what you think...
How I'd do it, is
After command phase, you may exhaust Phalanx Materiel. Gain an immobilize token. For this turn, if any enemy unit collides with the Spearmens front... +1 hit & surge = mortal.
This would make you "set spears", and do nothing else that turn, and take you a turn to go back to normal formation (as you're immobilized).
This would off set the increased hitting power and turn spearmen into a fairly fearsome block.
With metered march, you could march up point blank the turn before, and then set to receive the charge.
Beautiful, thanks for the suggestion. This is very helpful
Talking to our resident daqan player @picotheguyyo , he wants to see a templar type unit. Something slow, and limited to 2x2 at the largest, but has considerable durability. We were thinking something like 1 hp/2 A, protected 1, with an armor up option. The gimmick would be they can spend inspiration to lower or raise their initiative on marches(similar to eagle banner), so 2 inspiration moves initiative 1 step, 4 moves it 2, and 6 moves it 3.
If not a whole unit, it would be cool to do a figure upgrade with the same ability. This would allow spearmen to get a long charge edge.
1 hour ago, Jukey said:Talking to our resident daqan player @picotheguyyo , he wants to see a templar type unit. Something slow, and limited to 2x2 at the largest, but has considerable durability. We were thinking something like 1 hp/2 A, protected 1, with an armor up option. The gimmick would be they can spend inspiration to lower or raise their initiative on marches(similar to eagle banner), so 2 inspiration moves initiative 1 step, 4 moves it 2, and 6 moves it 3.
If not a whole unit, it would be cool to do a figure upgrade with the same ability. This would allow spearmen to get a long charge edge.
I'd rather see heavy infantry with a slower dial and a double surge = vitality token.
Peasant mob with slings. 2 4 or six trays. Should be moving fast but no tuning charges. 1 blue dice. Double surge is hit. Both melee and ranged. Coward two (at the end of round when engaged with front rank of enemy loses two figures)
Peasant mob with slings. 2 4 or six trays. Should be moving fast but no tuning charges. 1 blue dice. Double surge is hit. Both melee and ranged. Coward two (at the end of round when engaged with front rank of enemy loses two figures)
On 6/2/2019 at 5:10 AM, Skaflok said:Peasant mob with slings. 2 4 or six trays. Should be moving fast but no tuning charges. 1 blue dice. Double surge is hit. Both melee and ranged. Coward two (at the end of round when engaged with front rank of enemy loses two figures)
I was chuckling at the idea of an infantry mob that either can’t charge or can only charge distance 1 because it’s so unorganized