Because I'm all aboard the hype train I tried to use elementary school mathematics in order to shell out a pricing prediction for Rune Wars' expansion boxes - just for those people who want to know what kind of money they're going to invest into this game .

I started by calculating the ratio of the sum of the cost of the corresponding expansion boxes to the core set in X-Wing, X-Wing: The Force Awakens and X-Wing Armada:

Since, as far as I can tell, both X-Wing Cores and especially X-Wing Armada have a little bit more non-miniature stuff in their core box than Rune Wars will have, I predicted a ratio of roughly 115% for Rune Wars. This means the Rune Wars box contents should cost about 115 USD when bought separetely as expansion boxes.

Since both Ardus and Kari Wraithstalker are single human-sized miniatures, I guess they're going to cost the same - if they are released separetely, which may not happen because:

• the Wave 1 characters of human size all seem to come in multiples, meaning those two would not fit into Rune Wars' pricing scheme.
• if you already have the core box and you can't take multiples of named characters, the incentive to buy them may be quite low meaning they won't sell well..which is a problem in a hobby market with huge competition for shelf space.

Right now, I predict these two will be exclusive to the core box for the reasons pointed out above.

Carrion Lancers and Rune Golems are roughly the same size, so I guess they'll be priced identically.

Spearmen, Reanimate Archers and Reanimates are all human-sized infantry, so they'll most likely priced identically. Since there are only two trays of archers in the box and I guess the box will not contain units that are smaller than those in the expansion packs (SW Armada does otherwise with the squadrons, though) I expect the expansion boxes to contain two trays each.

Oathsworn Cavalry should be a little more expensive per tray than infantry because the amount of plastic per tray is higher. Taking all these into account, I came to the following pricing model:

I'm quite sure my infantry estimate (14,95 USD per 2-tray box) is spot on. The hero price is not that important because they can't be bought as singles. Both Oathsworn Cavalry and Monsters could cost up to 24,95 USD I guess, but no more.

Additionally, I think that the command pack (musician, standard bearer and champion model) will be priced at 14,95 USD while the hero expansion (mounted version and foot version in one box) will cost you 19,95 USD.

Taking everything into account, this is a price point I would be okay with. What do you think? Are these prices fine for you? Do you think they'll be priced differently?

These prices would be fine with me, but I think the golem and lancers could very well be 20$ and the hero expansion 25$.

FFG seems to charge by package size, as well. With 8 figures in a Reanimate Archer box, that's going to take up way more space than a single X-Wing ship. BattleLore releases about 40 miniatures for $40. Cut that in half and you have 8 miniatures for $20. Also, Imperial Assault will charge $12 for two miniatures and there are BattleLore expansions that are $15 for a single miniature. There's no way we're getting two trays of infantry for $15.

EDIT: I don't know what kind of math I was doing. It should be about $20 for 20 miniatures (actually, a little less than 20 miniatures). That actually would put it in the $15 for 8 miniatures range. But again, Looking at their single-figure expansions, I can't imagine that happening.

$20 for two trays of little guys doesn't seem that bad to me (taking into account that it comes with 8 models, 2 trays, double command dial, and various upgrade cards & tokens), and packing Bearer + Musician + whoever makes sense as a way to keep costs in line compared to putting them all in separate blisters. It's more stuff than a single X-Wing ship for $15. Of course, $15 would be even better!

Yeah I'd guess $15-20 for most humanoid expansion packs, which will have two trays worth of stuff in it. But I think bigger models like say the Golem will be sold in a pack with a single model and tray.

The Cavalry may cost more depending on how many are in the pack, a single tray of two would likely be in that range but if it's four then the price will naturally be higher.

For heroes.. I guess it depends on if they'll sell them singly or not.

I was wondering about this the other day. I'm not sure it's a given that we'll see individual units in blister packs like for X-Wing or Imperial Assault. I could see FFG doing bigger boxed sets, akin to Battlelore expansions or the Armada Squadron packs that give you a variety of different units.

Wave 1 Daquan Lords faction range might as well be:

"The Birgenstad Bulwark: a Daqan Lords reinforcement pack for Rune Wars: The Miniatures Game", including 16 Daqan Spearmen, 1 Rune Golem, all the requisite dials and trays and unit cards and a selection of upgrade cards, priced, say, at 35$ or 45$

"Oberst Oberstrumpf's Outriders: a Daqan Lords reinforcement pack". With 8 or 12 Daqan Bowmen and 8 Knights, also at 35-45$.

"Duke Dudemeister's Delinquents: a Daqan Lords command pack", including Duke Dudemeister foot and mounted, a generic wizard dude, two musicians, two standard bearers and all the relevant cards and gadgetry. Say, for 15$.

In any case, it's tough to judge the price. You can't really compare to X-Wing or Armada since they're prepaints. Imperial Assault isn't and it has a similar figure scale, but comes with the Star Wars license tax. Then again, we might get figure packs with the figures but without the trays to drive the initial price down, but with a "Rune Wars: The Miniatures Game War Battle Combat Tray Pack" as a separate product. Simply put, we're in uncharted territory with this game, there's not enough information available to even do guesswork until we get an actual RWM Wave 1 announcement.

I was wondering about this the other day. I'm not sure it's a given that we'll see individual units in blister packs like for X-Wing or Imperial Assault.

FFG is pretty big on giving you just what you need in any given expansion pack. It works that way for Descent, IA, Armada and X-Wing. Sure Descent and IA have bigger packs, but those are full campaigns not simply models.

I can't see them releasing packs consisting of several different models because they'd be hard to sell. If I want to buy more spearmen I don't want to have to spend $90+ to get enough spearmen plus 2-3 more copies of the same hero I can't use. More to the point no company out there that I know of does that either. There may be starter boxes and the like but I don't get assault marines mixed in with my terminators.

Selling packs of the smallest number of trays and units needed makes the most sense.

Then again, we might get figure packs with the figures but without the trays to drive the initial price down, but with a "Rune Wars: The Miniatures Game War Battle Combat Tray Pack" as a separate product.

That's highly unlikely because it goes against FFG's principle of 'everything you need to play'. Nothing that I know of that they sell packaged in such a way that you need to buy something else to use it. The only thing that comes close is the Most Wanted pack for X-Wing, and even then... That was more about bonus parts for those of us who already owned stuff.

there's not enough information available to even do guesswork until we get an actual RWM Wave 1 announcement.

I don't agree, we can look at other products FFG has produced and make some semi-educated guesses about how this will be packaged.

Tray pack is a great idea. Cut down the cost of all your blisters, other than maybe heroes with special scenic bases.

Most Wanted = $70 Scum Firespray I really wish they'd just updated the Firespray to have the Scum pilot cards in it and offered some sort of mail-in deal for people that had the old version.

Cut down the cost of all your blisters, other than maybe heroes with special scenic bases.

How do you figure that? The cost of a tray pack and the models would be about the same as a single expansion with both. It's not like you can use the trays without the models or visa versa. There's really no good reason I can see to release the trays separately.

Most Wanted = $70 Scum Firespray

If you chose to ignore the two Z-95's and Y-Wing that come with Most Wanted, that's up to you.

Because you don't field your entire collection at once. Taking X-Wing as an example, no matter how big my collection gets, I will probably never use more than 6-7 small bases in one game, and 7 is gonna be very very rare. Often I'll only use 3. Even if I'm supplying ships for both sides of a battle, it's unlikely I'll need more than maybe 9. All the other bases and pegs I own are mostly superfluous other than as spares in case of breakage. Similarly with large large. I need three of them, maybe five if I need to equip both sides.

So packaging them separately means I can buy cheaper figs that don't come with bases and keep reusing the bases I own without buying more and more until I've got an entire box full of unused extra bases.

Cut down the cost of all your blisters, other than maybe heroes with special scenic bases.

How do you figure that? The cost of a tray pack and the models would be about the same as a single expansion with both. It's not like you can use the trays without the models or visa versa. There's really no good reason I can see to release the trays separately.

Most Wanted = $70 Scum Firespray

If you chose to ignore the two Z-95's and Y-Wing that come with Most Wanted, that's up to you.

Because at some point you will have enough trays of all kind to supply trays to more than one army so just buying miniatures without trays would be cheaper, though i'm sure it will never happen.

FFG is pretty big on giving you just what you need in any given expansion pack. It works that way for Descent, IA, Armada and X-Wing. Sure Descent and IA have bigger packs, but those are full campaigns not simply models.

I can't see them releasing packs consisting of several different models because they'd be hard to sell. If I want to buy more spearmen I don't want to have to spend $90+ to get enough spearmen plus 2-3 more copies of the same hero I can't use.

It doesn't work that way for Battlelore or the Armada squadron packs like I mentioned. It doesn't work that way in X-Wing with the Most Wanted pack or the Aces/Veterans boxes. It doesn't work that way for X-Wing epic ships which are packaged with non-epic ships and cards. And I don't think it's fair to discount IA campaign boxes, a large assortment of good skirmish play pieces come from the boxed expansions, and these are in fact making you pay $$$ to get enough HK Assassin Droids or Wing Guard plus multiple copies of the same hero (and other stuff besides) you can't use.

More to the point no company out there that I know of does that either. There may be starter boxes and the like but I don't get assault marines mixed in with my terminators.

Barring the obvious FFG examples I already cited, Spartan Games does that with virtually all of their games now - they package and sell groups of figures/vehicles/ships together. Wrath of Kings works similarly. Mantic does that with Deadzone after repackaging the range into 30-pound 'starter' and 'booster' boxes for each faction. Privateer Press did away with blisters and repackaged their infantry and cavalry unit boxes to include the max allowance of figures in the box and all optional unit attachments, even though you might possibly play with just half of that. And the list goes on.

Even if you want to stay with Geedub stuff, there are foot hero models in there that you can technically only build out of a ridden monster or chariot kit if you assemble a specific variant build of the kit.

Selling packs of the smallest number of trays and units needed makes the most sense.

That would mean it makes the most sense to sell individual Daqan Spearmen, one figure per blister. After all, you don't really need them four at a time, since you can displace one for a hero, musician or standard bearer.

Only it doesn't make most sense, because you need to consider economics of scale and the price of packaging, warehousing, stock control and S&H. If you ever been to a grocery store, you probably noticed that buying a 2l coke bottle ends up being significantly cheaper than buying 2l of coke in 0,33l cans. It's the same thing.

Consider that if you want a 12-tray Spearmen unit, if you buy them in 2-tray packs, you not only end up with a bunch of extra cards like you do in X-Wing, you end up with 5 extra command dials you can do nothing with. How is that "only giving you what you need"? Bottom line is that with the scalable unit size system, FFG flat out cannot "give you only what you need".

I don't agree, we can look at other products FFG has produced and make some semi-educated guesses about how this will be packaged.

You can't look at other FFG products because FFG has literally never made a product like this. Okay, closest you can get are the Star Wars prepainted space games, but even those are fundamentally different because they do not have the scalable unit sizes that RWM has. Put simply, you don't buy four individual TIE Fighters in order to smush them together into a quadruple-sized TIE Fighter for one game, break it up into two double-sized TIE Fighters for another and then play all four individually in the third. And that's even before you consider that these have painting and the license factored into their prices, to an extent that we simply cannot judge.

All speculation on RWM prices and packaging beyond the core set is baseless at this point in time. Entertaining and intellectually stimulating, but still baseless.

On the other hand, you can't just sell 12 trays of spearmen in one box with one dial because people may want to split them up and they would need more dials for that.

On the other hand, you can't just sell 12 trays of spearmen in one box with one dial because people may want to split them up and they would need more dials for that.

Yup. That's why I'm very interested to see what FFG comes up with - they have no option but to package stuff in a way that's suboptimal from one point of view or another, it's a question of which suboptimal choice they take. I think all are valid to be considered until we know more.

The number of spearmen or reanimate command dials in the core set might be a clue, but I don't think we know that for sure at this point.

Entertaining and intellectually stimulating, but still baseless.

I disagree, I think you can look at what else FFG has done and make semi-educated guesses about how this will be packaged.

I had a longer post, but for some reason it won't accept it.

Don_Silvarro, You brought up the economies of scale, and that's part of what I'm basing my opinions on.

A box of 12 spearmen would I think sell poorly, unless it offered a fairly steep discount, and even then I don't think they'd see the same level of profit they would with selling them in packs of two.

Yes there's extra cards and dials and the like, but cardboard is very cheap. You will see some number of lost sales on boxes of 12 because people don't want another 12, they want two or four more...

Let's say for arguments sake two trays of Spearmen cost $20. I think two is the smallest number they'd make because a single tray isn't useable as far as I can tell. A spearman unit is made up of groups of two. Four trays would cost $40, but they could lose out on sales of that by people who only want two more.

It's highly unlikely they'll have more than one expansion for each unit type. So one expansion for Spearmen, one for calivery, one for Reanimates, ect... LGS' aren't going to carry three different sku's per unit.

So FFG is going to sell an expansion that has at least enough units in it so you can play with them out of the package, but few enough that people will be able to buy as many as they want.

I don't think they'll sell trays separately. This again goes against FFG's stance of having everything you need in the package. I can look at the piles of bases and pegs I have for X-Wing and the core set box full of unpunched cardboard as evidence of that.

Sure it may be nice to be able to buy four spearmen or four archers without the extra stuff. But those packages would only sell to people who already had the dials, trays, ect... they needed which makes those packages inherently poorer selling because it has a smaller market. That makes them less attractive to the store, and really doesn't help FFG's bottom line.

Plus it again seems to go against FFG's stance, they don't seem to like to sell things that someone could take home and only then find out they didn't get everything they needed to use what they bought.

Edit: To make something clear. I think a pack of three trays could work for things like Spearmen and the like, since that is only one tray more. But I'd be surprised to see a package larger than that.

I won't continue to try to convince you that you shouldn't be 100% sure of stuff that's 100% speculation, since that would be pretty silly. I'll presonally still continue with my stance of allowing the possibility that they will go whichever way on this.

What I will say however, is that if 200pts will be the benchmark point value (and I don't believe it will, at least not indefinetly - I suspect it will creep up over time like Armada did) and the price point benchmark is 20$ for 16pts worth of infantry like you propose, I probably won't be buying into this game.

The number of spearmen or reanimate command dials in the core set might be a clue, but I don't think we know that for sure at this point.

It might be, but my bet is the core will only have 1 dial per unit type - you can run 4 trays of spearmen or 2 trays of spearmen, but if you want to run 2 units of 2 trays you're SOL.

This is a core set limitation of course ... in time you may have more dials than you could ever possibly need.

So FFG is going to sell an expansion that has at least enough units in it so you can play with them out of the package, but few enough that people will be able to buy as many as they want.

I don't think they'll sell trays separately. This again goes against FFG's stance of having everything you need in the package. I can look at the piles of bases and pegs I have for X-Wing and the core set box full of unpunched cardboard as evidence of that.

Plus it again seems to go against FFG's stance, they don't seem to like to sell things that someone could take home and only then find out they didn't get everything they needed to use what they bought.

This, this, so much this.

My 0.02 worth...

I'd bet good money on army packs coming in two trays + minis + dial + cards

Hero packs costing almost as much as the above for one hero + tray + rocky stand + dial + cards

Possibly "super" hero packs for slightly more with the mounted/unmounted variant

Command group packs with musician + standard bearer with cards

Sorry, think you need to use expansion costs from items like Descent 2nd edition, Battle Lore and what not for unit expansion.

(and I don't believe it will, at least not indefinetly - I suspect it will creep up over time like Armada did)

The only reason Armada's point value went up was because they couldn't release enough ships at first to make 400 points viable. They had planned on 400 points from the start, and had said as much, but needed to wait until wave 2 came out before that point value could really be supported with what was released.

400 points will be the standard for Armada for the foreseeable future, just like how X-Wing is still 100 points four years later. They plan on having enough stuff in wave 1 of RW to make 200 points viable, so that value is unlikely to change either.