I know that it can be used as a maneuver once per session with The Force Is My Ally, and once as an incidental with a Control Upgrade in the power (only for Light Siders), but it seems fairly weak otherwise having to spend your action to put up a defense that works similarly to the Parry/Reflect talents. Some of the abilities in the tree are pretty cool, and it's great that you can use this to protect your allies, but turtling up is rarely a very good strategy in any game, let alone one as fast-paced as this tends to be.

And it's never fun to sacrifice your turn in the hope of being able to withstanding an attack that never came.

I'm also not really thrilled about these powers being combined...I mean, I like that Force Lightning is tied to a power most powerful Force users would be looking to at least dip into, because we have several instances in the EU of characters taking a sharp turn to the Dark Side and using Force Lightning out of nowhere, but these don't really feel like they go together, and the tree provides much more to Dark Siders than Light, giving them a potent offensive ability and a decent defensive option, whereas the Light Siders are getting only the defensive option, even if it's a little more robust.

I'm kind of hoping some things get changed here between the Beta and final release.

What do all of you think?

Teamwork. It's to protect your allies. You're the shield. They're the sword.

Teamwork. It's to protect your allies. You're the shield. They're the sword.

But do we see this sort of power used anywhere in the movies or EU? There's the scene in one of the books where

but I can't think of any spot where such an ability is being used at range, or en mass.

What we do see are Vader blocking Han's shots with his hands, and

. Most of these instances seem more like out of turn incidentals than the only thing a character is doing on their turn, though I guess these could be be represented by the 1/session incidental version.

You answered your own question. We don't see them used repeatedly.

I remember in d6, there was an Absorb Energy power, which would have been Vader taking the shots to his hands and not being harmed at all. Does this power show up in F&D? I haven't had much of a chance to look through it much.

He doesn't absorb the bolts though, he deflects them. You can even see the char marks on the wall where they've ricocheted off his hands.

Teamwork. It's to protect your allies. You're the shield. They're the sword.

But do we see this sort of power used anywhere in the movies or EU? There's the scene in one of the books where

Corran and Mara are training together and he shields her from a shot from a remote taking the bolt on his hand and absorbing some of the energy, and there are one or two scenes where a Jedi who is capable of negating energy like that grabs someone and protects them as such

but I can't think of any spot where such an ability is being used at range, or en mass.

What we do see are Vader blocking Han's shots with his hands, and

Nejaa Halcyon absorbing the energy from the lightsaber that killed him--and we have no power that represents draining energy from a device

. Most of these instances seem more like out of turn incidentals than the only thing a character is doing on their turn, though I guess these could be be represented by the 1/session incidental version.

Point of order: It's a shame that one of the more interesting Force abilities comes from one of the worst books in the EU.

He doesn't absorb the bolts though, he deflects them. You can even see the char marks on the wall where they've ricocheted off his hands.

It only works according to this system if his gloved hands count as a melee weapon. Perhaps they should alter parry to include gloved hands? Pray they don't alter it any further.

He doesn't absorb the bolts though, he deflects them. You can even see the char marks on the wall where they've ricocheted off his hands.

I just see that as narrative license to describe the effects of the power.

Don't forget that Vader's hand would have been entirely mechanical. As the emperor's top man, he would have top notch replacements with possible Sith enhancements. I don't think there is enough evidence that he did anything other than use the force to put his hands in the correct place at the correct time.

That being said, I love the various powers from the SW novels and would like my Jedi to be able to siphon off energy!

Aki

Are we really forgetting the indestructible glove?

On topic, i understand what you mean, but note that the power also has no real duration once activated. So it could be activated early in a battle and if you were not successfully hit it would remain. Also it costs not strain to use the ability.

perhaps it would be a possibility to change that control upgrade from once per session to a strain cost, perhaps 4. This way, reflect and parry can still have their place (being cheaper in the strain cost and having a more reliable effect), but this would have the benefit of being potentially stronger and more likely to reflect a weak to medium strength attack. That would be a change I could get behind.

The unleash portion of that control upgrade would remain the same of course.

On topic, i understand what you mean, but note that the power also has no real duration once activated. So it could be activated early in a battle and if you were not successfully hit it would remain. Also it costs not strain to use the ability.

Nope. It lasts until the end of the user's next turn.

what's your source for that. it lists no duration under the base power.

edit: oops. nevermind.

Still, it does last for a small amount of time.

It says if you suffer a hit before the end of the user's next turn in the base power.

Helps to read the full description.

And, yes, it lasts for a little while, but would you really want to only take an action every other round in order to absorb some of the damage from one hit you suffer over the course of two rounds?

This power, particularly used by someone with a decent Willpower and Discipline who has bought up the tree would be staggering. It's essentially an invulnerability bubble.

and it doesn't discriminate between melee, or ranged, and with the upgrade, works on any kind of damage. This power can change the pace of a combat with a nemesis.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it can be quite powerful.

Funny thing is I'd read that sentence three times, and never noticed the last part. go figure.

and it doesn't discriminate between melee, or ranged, and with the upgrade, works on any kind of damage. This power can change the pace of a combat with a nemesis.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it can be quite powerful.

Funny thing is I'd read that sentence three times, and never noticed the last part. go figure.

Happens to the best of us.

I think the power has a place, I just feel like it's kind of slow--you have to keep rolling pretty well to be able to negate all of your incoming attacks (and spend a lot of XP to do so for more than one attack), meanwhile you're not taking any other actions, which means you're giving your opponent(s) time to do basically whatever they want, which may mean your Protect is pointless. If it were a maneuver then at least you could use it with some frequency, though I agree that having it up full time would be a bit much.

Also, I'd really like to see a way to mimic the Halcyon/Horn ability to channel absorbed energy into a Force power. For instance, "after being struck by an attack that has some or all of its damage negated by this power, flip a Destiny point to generate a Force point for each point of damage negated. You may immediately spend these points to activate any one Force power and its upgrades, including powers and upgrades you do not have ranks in." Or maybe just for upgrades in a power you have. Corran could use Move a little bit, though I'd hesitate to even say that he can use an unmodified basic Move power with any consistency, given his trouble with telekinesis, but he could do a pretty good job after absorbing some energy.

Not doing anything other than potentially handing your teammates enough Setbacks to not be hit by anything and reflect every single attack reduced to zero made against you all back at the source, other than that, you're practically doing nothing.

Not doing anything other than potentially handing your teammates enough Setbacks to not be hit by anything and reflect every single attack reduced to zero made against you all back at the source, other than that, you're practically doing nothing.

I'm looking at what the power does as you first invest in it. You shouldn't have to spend 100 XP in a power before it starts being really useful.

Also, I don't recall anyone ever using something like this power to protect someone else beyond engaged range, nor can I recall reading about it being used to protect against a non-energy attack, nor to provide something like defense.

There's also no real grounds for being able to use Bind (aka Force Choke) on multiple targets at once, or for any kind of actual Heal power beyond video games (aka "bottom of the barrel in terms of canon"), and yet they're in the rules for Force and Destiny.

Being able to outright negate damage with just the base power is a very handy thing in a system where damage output tends to outstrip most character's ability to absorb or avoid it. Having it require an Action at first makes perfect sense from a game balance perspective. Particularly if you keep in mind that a combat round is around a minute, giving the Force user plenty of "time" to prepare to defend themselves and/or others nearby.

Not doing anything other than potentially handing your teammates enough Setbacks to not be hit by anything and reflect every single attack reduced to zero made against you all back at the source, other than that, you're practically doing nothing.

I'm looking at what the power does as you first invest in it. You shouldn't have to spend 100 XP in a power before it starts being really useful.

Also, I don't recall anyone ever using something like this power to protect someone else beyond engaged range, nor can I recall reading about it being used to protect against a non-energy attack, nor to provide something like defense.

Then your expectations are the problem, not the power. It's a FR 3 minimum prereq to just buy it and that's bare minimum. So right from go this is not an entry level power. The base power clearly shows you need a rock solid Discipline and Willpower to get a decent effect. To say you shouldn't have to spend a lot of xp on something that provides as much defense as it does isn't a reasonable expectation.

There's also no real grounds for being able to use Bind (aka Force Choke) on multiple targets at once, or for any kind of actual Heal power beyond video games (aka "bottom of the barrel in terms of canon"), and yet they're in the rules for Force and Destiny.

Being able to outright negate damage with just the base power is a very handy thing in a system where damage output tends to outstrip most character's ability to absorb or avoid it. Having it require an Action at first makes perfect sense from a game balance perspective. Particularly if you keep in mind that a combat round is around a minute, giving the Force user plenty of "time" to prepare to defend themselves and/or others nearby.

I agree with your second assertion, but you're wrong about the first.

Return of the Jedi - when Luke enters Jabba's palace he force chokes two Gamorians when they try to bar his way. Pretty sure that's multiple targets simultaneously, even if they are sequentially targeted (though for game purposes it's much the same).

I do think the power is a bit overvalued by the developers. Certainly it can be powerful, but often won't be. There will be times when there are no allies to be the DPS to your Tank and stalling isn't an option (even if it is, how boring can you get?). Charging such a staggering amount of XP combined with the steep entry requirements is too much.

Economically speaking, a power that's only useful in half of combats should be twice as powerful or you shouldn't take it. It's hard to argue against the utility of the Enduring talent. The trick really is comparing apples and oranges.

For what it's worth I can see both sides here. Yeti's right in that the talent is over costed (maybe 85 xp to get to the useful level?) , but he's overstating things to say that it's terrible.

The Gammoreans are a minion group (i.e. disposable set dressing), and are targeted as a single entity when Luke strides in.