New Runewars expansion announced

By SuperKalelJorson7, in Runewars

It's on the front page (as you can see).

Sounds cool- vampires, zombie dragons blood witches, ents and others. More cards and more fun.

No new races yet. But I'm sure this isn't the last expansion.

I think I will skip on this.

I made my own rules to combat the luck drawing factor without requiring more cards. My playgroup made 2 new units for each race while I designed orcs and dwarves as an additional race. We changed the way neutral units work. I even created simple warlord tokens that accompany my warlord variant, where heroes can lead armies.

I am guessing this expansion was held up by the artist, Firedudewraith. Love his topographical work though, definitely worth the delay to get him again.

I find it funny at how similar Corey and I think. The variants I have posted on various sites pretty much do what this expansion most likely will do better. I am glad FFG was inspired by the community to turn these similar variants into professional work. But like I said, I have to skip on this one, because I have a special place in me that takes pride in the testing and long hours my friends and I put into our own creations.

Guess what I am trying to say is, I would buy this expansion in a heartbeat, if I didn't already have something similar. The art on the box cover is freaking amazing. That is one awesome talent FFG acquired.

Out of respect for FFG, I will not be posting my Runewars work or anything that is too similar to the variants added with 'Banners', because I feel, just like programs such as Magic Workstation, I could be endangering future sales. I care about the sales, because I would love to work with Corey someday on a game, I respect the artist, and I can't lie, but I still need dwarf and orc figures.

i think they copied the community bc they listened to them. If everyone wanted heroes to be generals, why not put that in the expansion?

Grove12345 said:

i think they copied the community bc they listened to them. If everyone wanted heroes to be generals, why not put that in the expansion?





Who says that everything in the expansion will duplicate your efforts? Even if you prefer your own add-ons, that doesn't mean there won't be enough in the expansion to warrant purchasing it and just not use the "overlapping" parts.

I'm going to buy it, but at the same time I am disappointed.

I'd prefer at least one new army to replace the elves with in 4 player games.

The new units look interesting though, and some extra map pieces are good too.

HighHanded said:

I'm going to buy it, but at the same time I am disappointed.

I'd prefer at least one new army to replace the elves with in 4 player games.

The new units look interesting though, and some extra map pieces are good too.

Why do you want to replace the elves? :)

Who's the designer of this expansion? Is it Corey? It's not mentioned anywhere.

Maerimydra said:

HighHanded said:

I'm going to buy it, but at the same time I am disappointed.

I'd prefer at least one new army to replace the elves with in 4 player games.

The new units look interesting though, and some extra map pieces are good too.

Why do you want to replace the elves? :)

Agreed; in the games I've recorded, the Elves are 3-1 in 4-player games.

Because no one wants to play as them.

Mostly because from the several dozen games we played the elves lost all but one of them I think.

Everyone expected new races/armies, but I'm really NOT disappointed that they are not included. All that new units and all that new possibilities to specialize and customize your strategy (think about the new harvest-supremacy-bonus) will offer enough possibilities to change the "style of gameplay" of the current armies.

I really like the new title card. In early game, it will be a great alternative to the "Primarch of the Wizards Council".

I'm curious how the new recruit-dials (with all these new units) will be arranged. And I'm curious if the triangle units will lose their impact because there are so much "big" units in the game, now.

There seem to be no new neutral units, right?

HighHanded said:

Because no one wants to play as them.

Mostly because from the several dozen games we played the elves lost all but one of them I think.

My experience is that the Elves tend to be the best (or at least most successful) race. Their archers are amazing, they have a 2 hit point and 3 hit point model (big plus), no hexagonal, 5 initiative piece (another big plus). All in all, they are great.

1) Runewars Expansion is just that my dreams come true. Love this game from the beggining, and i know that whatever is in there - it is must have for every Runewars fan. I hope that '4th quater of 2011' proves to be the deadline. CANNOT WAIT TO HAVE IT!

2) I play miniature and advanced board games for more than 15 years. I also play Runewars since beggining, and played it a lot. Elves are not the easiest race to play, but they certainly are the most deadly tool of war seen in this game IMHO. Elves are the only race that has FAST&FLYING unit, which gives you many oportunities to lead quick attacks behind enemy lines, wreaking havoc in bad supported home realms and making your opponent pay for every little mistake he made. It is also a race of big amount of starting influ, that makes you far more advanced in the eearly stage of the game, when you want to attrack powerful allies like dragons and giants. The only true drawback is lack of food, so you may see yurself in a situation where there is no food around - but hay - every race could actually find itself in such a situation! Aaah and there is a thing - a hex thing that your army does not possess - so what? You've got cool FLY/FAS cavalry unit, mentioned earlier, and great archers, that quickly make a pile of junt with your enemy's army.

ELVES are freaky... and i can see why is that in a four player game they're 1/3... becouse they are best race to play.

I actually play Undead (love their stoicism:P) but Elves win most of our games. Where there is a fight of three - fourth will be the winner, Elves are everywhere at once, especially where they're most needed at a time and can conquer your runes ina blink. That is why the Dragon Runes winning condition is so important - Elves where made this way so that they are equal to other races:)

But what are we talking about? Expansion is on the way and it'll tip the scales over upside down!

CANNOT WAIT TO HAVE IT!

Regards.

It needed to have 5-6 Players. Get dwarves and Orcs in there! Agh well... Probably not the last expansion right?!

Railarian said:

It needed to have 5-6 Players. Get dwarves and Orcs in there! Agh well... Probably not the last expansion right?!

I guess I disagree that it "needs" 5-6 players, in fact I don't think the game would WORK as well with so many. Too much open space, not enough interaction.

Must disagree - with portals there would be plenty of interaction:)

Nazroth said:

Must disagree - with portals there would be plenty of interaction:)

Depends on where the portals are. There are only 4 of them, and they are just as likely to be bunched together as to really be put in strategically useful areas. And it also takes time to find them; there are many games where several of the Exploration Tokens are never explored, and if some of those are Portals, that's just going to make it harder. And it also assumes that all 4 portals are placed on the map at all.

Plus, Portals are a liability for the attacker; it takes 1 influence to make the attack, but if you end up having to retreat, it takes another influence to move back.

Also, using Portals would assume that the players don't destroy them; I'd be likely to destroy a local portal if I was worried about other players moving through it to attack me.

They can HELP, but they won't SOLVE the problem, especially if you don't use the Exploration Tokens OPTIONAL rule.

sigmazero13 said:

Railarian said:

It needed to have 5-6 Players. Get dwarves and Orcs in there! Agh well... Probably not the last expansion right?!

I guess I disagree that it "needs" 5-6 players, in fact I don't think the game would WORK as well with so many. Too much open space, not enough interaction.

What makes you think that the rules for the map setup would remain the same in a 5 or 6 players game? Just saying... :)

P.S.: I'm happy with Runewars as it is, but I don't think that an expansion that allows more players would break the game. Look at Twilight Imperium, from which Runewars borrowed a lot of ideas, with it's 8 players capacity. Sadly, more players means less active gaming time for all players.

I'm not only player - i also sell boardgames in Bard Centrum Gier Kraków, Poland - and must say that runewars is a marble of sort. Twilight Imperium - great game with looots of possibilities, but gaming with 5-7 friends is a little bit one way gaming. Withous even temporary allies you can't win. Runewars is evidently based on Twilight Imperium, but it seems that it's creators went to hell and get back only not to make same mistakes twice. So we have a game that is fully interactive, with hightly reduced 'awaiting oponent' moments, strategic, economic and with adventure motives - it is a titan.

They made it perfect (well almost) and didn't made same mistakes. Now we all haveour order cards - it makes 'choosing orders' much quicker, than in TI. We do not need piles of junk to keep track on our resources, and do not use dices either. It was very difficult to play a 8 player game of TI with only basic dice set.

Runewars took everything that was ever good and popular in all those BIG FFG GAMES, and untill now it had only two drawbacks (for me).

1) shaking faction sheets (all about those arrows, just glued some flat legs under the sheet and it stoped annoing me).

2) NO EXPANSION!

Damned - it is so good that it finally is here (almost here).

All this crap to say: Dont believe that making Runewars 'up to six' 'll make any difference. Maybe they will just barrow more of TI rules - like jump holes, don't know - underground passages? pre-destined on specific area elements, or maybe some other cool ideas. Up to now Runewars is a hybrid of Heroes of Might and Magic and Twilight Imperium. There's a plenty of ideas to explore.

Deep in my heart i know that whatever they choose to put inside this, and another expansion - it is my duty (as a RWS Lover) and it will be much funn to buy it.

Maerimydra said:

Look at Twilight Imperium, from which Runewars borrowed a lot of ideas, with it's 8 players capacity. Sadly, more players means less active gaming time for all players.

Yes, and I think TI3 is significantly WORSE and LESS FUN to play with 7 and 8 players than it is with 6. It supports 8, yes, but does not support it well. Honestly, after having played a few 7/8 player games, I will never do so again; the downtime is too much, the interaction drastically drops, etc.

I see where you are going, but that analogy doesn't work for me, but in fact for my part reinforces MY point - Runewars would NOT be a better game just for supporting 5 and 6 players, but would in fact lose some of it's luster.

sigmazero13 said:

Maerimydra said:

Look at Twilight Imperium, from which Runewars borrowed a lot of ideas, with it's 8 players capacity. Sadly, more players means less active gaming time for all players.

Yes, and I think TI3 is significantly WORSE and LESS FUN to play with 7 and 8 players than it is with 6. It supports 8, yes, but does not support it well. Honestly, after having played a few 7/8 player games, I will never do so again; the downtime is too much, the interaction drastically drops, etc.

I see where you are going, but that analogy doesn't work for me, but in fact for my part reinforces MY point - Runewars would NOT be a better game just for supporting 5 and 6 players, but would in fact lose some of it's luster.

What you describe here is true for any board game out there (more players = more downtime), and I would never expect nor want Runewars to supports 8 players, even in a distant future following the release of other expansions, because that's just a crazy number. As a tabletop RPG gamer, I know only too well how a larger group of player doesn't mean a larger amount of fun: it's more the other way around after exceeding a certain threshold. However, what is the hard limit that a specific game should not exceed? There's no definitive answer for that. For example, in a tabletop RPG, my sweet spot is 4 to 5 players + 1 game master while one of my fellow gamers prefer a group of 3 to 4 players + 1 game master, so it looks like it's not only a matter of game mechanics and downtime, but also a matter of taste. Players' experience also have a huge impact on downtime in any game. 4 experienced players could end a game of Runewars before 2 noobs could. Everytime I introduce someone to Runewars, I prefer to play a 2 players game with him, because it's much faster and it allows the new player to learn the game more quickly. Once he has a good understanding of the mechanics and strategies of the game, he's ready for a 3 or 4 players game, my favorite kind of games in Runewars.

Since Runewars is more streamlined, fast and intuitive than TI3, and TI3 can be enjoyable with 6 players (apparently), I can't see why Runewars wouldn't be enjoyable (not better, just enjoyable) with 5 players. Sure, a 4 players game could still be more fun than a 5 players game, but if a 5 players option can prevent you from forsaking one of your "extra" friends just because the core game only accommodates 4 players, it may be worth it. As for me, I already have a hard time finding enough people to play 4 players games, so the fact that Banners of War doesn't come with new factions doesn't bother me at all. However, I can understand why some people were waiting for a 5-6 players expansion. As I said, I think that this game is perfect as it is, but the release of optional rules via expansions to better suit the taste of some gamers wouldn't hurt either, as long as those rules are carefully crafted and well balanced.

That's all folks!

I see what you are saying, but I still don't think the analogy with TI3 is apt for arguing for 6-players in Runewars.

In TI3, all the players are equidistant from a central planet. The map is exactly the same size for 4, 5 and 6 players. Because of this, interaction actually INCREASES when you move towards 6, because the starting locations get slightly closer together. Plus, they political/trade dynamics in the game do work better with 6 than with 4. That is why with TI3, 6 is a good sweet spot. When you expand to 7, though, you increase the size of the map, taking all players further from the central planet and decreasing interaction. The political/trade dynamics are still there, but I personally feel at this point it starts becoming more chaotic as well. That is what makes 7/8 Player TI3 less fun for me.

With Runewars, though, the board scales directly with the number of players, and since players are always around the edge, that means with each new player, you get a bigger "middle". However, unlike TI3, the "middle" of a Runewars map usually isn't very tactically important. The areas close to your home realms tend to be your biggest needs, and thus when you make the map bigger, it starts to decrease this interaction with other players. Honestly, in the current incarnation of RW, I personally think 3 players is the "sweet spot" - enough interaction with other players, just tight enough resources, and a fun map. 4-players, though, doesn't decrease that TOO much, but it is enough to notice - players "opposite" each other rarely interact directly (usually only via Tactics cards). With 5+, it just seems to me this would be magnified even more. Your two immediate neighbors would really be your only threats, and with 6 players, for instance, this would mean that less than HALF your opponents will have direct interaction with you (or you with them) in most games.

Would the game outright "suck" with 5 or 6? Probably not, but I feel that it's on the downward side of the "fun" curve, and I think the difference between 4 and 5 would be much more drastic than that between 5 and 6.

Again, though, I'm not opposed to new factions (though I don't mind them focusing on adding more to the existing factions first); it's doing so with the main "purpose" of making a 5- or 6-player game that I wouldn't like, because that's a feature I'm not likely to use very often. I'm glad their focus has been simply adding things that can be used in the current games as-is.

Lol, didn't think I'd start an argument like this! Yet, I still believe more players would greatly benefit the game:

-In opposition to TI3, There's much less downtime in Runewars because many actions don't conflict eachother (neutral battles, harvest, recruit,...) which can be done simultaneously. The only real downtime is Quest Phase.

-There's plenty of ways to hinder faraway opponent : season card, tactic cards, supporting his neighbours. But more would be necessary...

-The fantastic modular board system keeps a proportion factor (just like Starcraft). TI3 has this issue.

I like Starcraft a lot. It's great because it plays well with 5 or 6 players and Runewars has inherited features from it.

Starcraft does indeed do it well, but honestly the thing that makes Starcraft work that wouldn't work in Runewars without some other addition is the Z-Axis bits.

If Starcraft didn't have Z-Axes, it would likely have much the same problem :)

5-6 players in Runewars would mean one big change - more political interaction, team plays and other things, that you may observe in TI3, where you're unable to win without some support or big amount of luck and underestimation by oponents.

Runewars is great, actually the only reason i would like to see expansion is that i just want more - im not bored with the game, just feel like 'i have to buy something or any magic that sustains me will perish'... It is so cool, that it just have to be continued, and only rational solution - in the future - is to add more players, or atleast alternative armies. I dont mind those new may-be armies to increase number of players, becouse FFG would propably change some basic rules to better suite this kind of multiplayer game.

Maybe there would appear some toadly new winning conditions? Or some new map pieces, special cards - not seen before? There are so many ideas... be sure they won't fu*k this game:)