An Ode and Two Questions

By Walk, in Arkham Horror Second Edition

Greetings, everyone. I've been reading these forums for awhile, but I haven't yet posted here. I'll begin with the questions, both of which (partly) originate from the mission Walking the Ley Lines. Firstly, when playing with more than one expansion board, does the number of gate trophies needed for a closing victory decrease along with everything else based on number of players? I seem to recall reading conflicting answers about this somewhere on here. There seems to be no particular reason that this should be a special case, but then, saying that it remains the same regardless of the number of expansion boards prevents a number of bizarre situations (principally first-turn De Vermiis Mysteriis coups). Secondly, when you are at a location with a gate on it (and are not sucked through) during the Arkham Encounters phase, does this allow you to "check off" that location for the purposes of a task or mission? The reason I ask is that there seems to be some dispute over whether a location with a gate on it "counts as" itself. Does closing the gate while you're there change the situation?

Then, the ode, beginning with its origin. No guarantees that this will be of any interest to anyone, but, who knows? Anyway: in generall, I get very excited whenever I am planning and/or anticipatiing something new and interesting (embarking on a project or planning a series of purchases). Thus was the case at the time of me writing it. I was online cruising around the FFG website and looking at things (I think it was mostly Arkham and its expansions, but it might have been Mansions of Madness as well). I didn't yet have Arkham, and this excursion helped cement my decision to purchase it. I was very, very excited about it and, thusly drunk on anticipation (as well, no doubt, the malevolent spirit of this wondrous and terrible game calling my soul into its dark embrace) and wishing to immortalize my feelings, I opened Microsoft Word and dashed off the below bit of nonsense. I...really don't know what I was thinking, but I thought it would make a decent ode to Arkham. In my throes of mirthful madness, I entitled it "The Dark." How creative.

They lie open before me
The endless wanderers
And I can merely stare upon

What is this world
Nothing
Endlessly adrift in meaningless life
And yet what joy there is in it

In this
The irony
What lives inside the meaning

I dwell in this moment
I see what lies beyond the end
We are here
I am here
Laughter
Endless
This is what it is for

IIRC the reduction to the number of investigators due to more than one expansion board in play applies to everything that counts the number investigators in play.

arkhamresident said:

IIRC the reduction to the number of investigators due to more than one expansion board in play applies to everything that counts the number investigators in play.



It doesn't apply to number of successes that need to be rolled against an Ancient One in final combat. I think that's the only exception? I don't remember exactly... Anyone?

Avi_dreader said:

arkhamresident said:

IIRC the reduction to the number of investigators due to more than one expansion board in play applies to everything that counts the number investigators in play.



It doesn't apply to number of successes that need to be rolled against an Ancient One in final combat. I think that's the only exception? I don't remember exactly... Anyone?

As far as I know, everytime Avi says he doesn't remember something, he does it very well ::laughter::

yeah, scale down the number of gates required for a closing victory according to the number of investigators reduction rules for more boards in play

Nice poem by the way!

Julia said:

Avi_dreader said:

arkhamresident said:

IIRC the reduction to the number of investigators due to more than one expansion board in play applies to everything that counts the number investigators in play.



It doesn't apply to number of successes that need to be rolled against an Ancient One in final combat. I think that's the only exception? I don't remember exactly... Anyone?

As far as I know, everytime Avi says he doesn't remember something, he does it very well ::laughter::

yeah, scale down the number of gates required for a closing victory according to the number of investigators reduction rules for more boards in play

Gasp! Are you implying I'm not as senile as I let on? I'm outra... Wait, what were we talking about again?

Avi_dreader said:

Julia said:

Avi_dreader said:

arkhamresident said:

IIRC the reduction to the number of investigators due to more than one expansion board in play applies to everything that counts the number investigators in play.



It doesn't apply to number of successes that need to be rolled against an Ancient One in final combat. I think that's the only exception? I don't remember exactly... Anyone?

As far as I know, everytime Avi says he doesn't remember something, he does it very well ::laughter::

yeah, scale down the number of gates required for a closing victory according to the number of investigators reduction rules for more boards in play

Gasp! Are you implying I'm not as senile as I let on? I'm outra... Wait, what were we talking about again?

Don't remember..

Thank you, everyone. I suppose if the game can have turn-one victories, it's only fair that we can, too.... Anyone have any ideas about the tasks/missions? I suppose (as I said initially) this really plays into the larger question of whether (for instance) the Woods counts as the Woods with a gate on it. Personaly, I would play it that you can fulfill tasks and missions (if you aren't sucked through the gate), but I'd be interested to know others' opinions (or if there's an official ruling).

I'd say you cannot fulfill Missions or Tasks by visiting locations with a gate open. Usually it's said "a gate replaces a location" and the rules in the DH rulebook (pag. 5) say that you have to visit a location. So... don't know if there is anything official on this, anyway, but this is the way I usually play

Julia said:

I'd say you cannot fulfill Missions or Tasks by visiting locations with a gate open. Usually it's said "a gate replaces a location" and the rules in the DH rulebook (pag. 5) say that you have to visit a location. So... don't know if there is anything official on this, anyway, but this is the way I usually play

Julia is correct and there is an official ruling on this. Gates replace a location and thus tasks/missions can not be fulfilled while there is a gate at a location listed on the task/mission.

Thank you. Suppose that scuttles my Ley Lines theory somewhat. Ah, well...

The best way to handle "Ley Lines" is to enter an open gate at each of the locations, close it when you return, and spend the trophy during Upkeep.

Ah, so you disagree with the others? Or is it that you can fulfill a Mission's location requirement if you close the Gate on the location during the Arkham Encounters phase? The rules do say that you have to spend an Arkham Encounters phase there, which would seem to imply that you must be at "that location" for the entire phase (I think); thus, if it is true that the Woods with a gate on it does not count as the Woods and you return to the Woods through its gate (which you immediately close), then you did not spend an entire Arkham Encounters phase at the Woods, since, before the closing, the Woods was not, in fact, the Woods but...something else.

Of course, further complicating this matter is the strange wording in the Dunwich Horror rulebook. On top of the ambiguity of "spending an Arkham Encounters phase," this phrase is actually applied to Tasks, whereas Missions "additionally" require a sacrifice during the subsequent Upkeep phase. This presumably means that it's the same for the two, but...hmm...I may be intentionally overcomplicating things.

Ley Lines is a mission. Mission sacrifices are made during the Upkeep phase. There is confusion over what phase to activate a Task , but Ley Lines isn't a Task.

First of all, I now feel like an idiot, because I just looked in the Dunwich rulebook and found the example stating that you cannot fulfill the requirements while there's a gate at a location. Oops.

Secondly, I think I have to disagree with you. Look at the wording in the Dunwich rulebook. "For Tasks, merely spending an Arkham Encounter Phase in the listed areas is enough to complete each step. However, for Missions, the investigator must additionally discard or spend the listed sacrifice at each location at the start of the Upkeep phase." Note that word "additionally." As I said in my previous post, it's kind of unclear, but "additionally" would seem to mean that you must also spend the Arkham Encounters phase there. Furthermore, the aforementioned example states that "if a gate is open on a location, it isn't possible for an investigator to actually visit that location. Therefore, if you must visit Hibb's Roadhouse to complete a Task or Mission, but there's an open gate there, then the gate must be closed before you can visit Hibb's Roadhouse." So that means you definitely cannot complete the requirement if there's a gate there.

The question then becomes whether you can complete the requirement if there is only a gate there for part of the Arkham Encounters phase (because you close it). "Spend an Arkham Encounters Phase" there could be easily interpreted to mean that you must be at the location (and it must not have a gate) for the whole phase, but it's not entirely clear. Thoughts?

Also, just to add more confusion, the aforementioned example seems to state that a Task must involve being there during the Upkeep Phase.

As you saw, the confusion arises in the printed example, which seems to imply that each step for the Task is completed during the Upkeep phase. Tasks and Missions, by no coincidence, seemed to be designed to function analogously, which also lends suspicion.

As for the Gate issue, I think it really is not an issue. If there's a gate on your space, you haven't spent "an Arkham Encounters phase there" because there (the Roadhouse, for example) "doesn't exist" so long as there is an open gate (I try to avoid using the term "doesn't exist" but it fits here). And if your Arkham encounter phase involved closing the gate, that still wouldn't count because you haven't spent the entire phase at the Roadhouse.

Alright, I thought that you had meant, when saying several posts ago that you spent the trophy during the Upkeep phase, that you spent it during the next Upkeep phase (that was incredibly unwieldy grammar, but hopefully you get my point). So in order to execute your plan for Ley Lines (which plan, by the way, was essentially what inspired me to write this thread), you would have to close the gates at the locations mentioned and then sit there for a turn in order to spend a full Arkham Encounters phase. And, once all was said and done, you would still, as a group, need to have a number of gate trophies equal to the players (modified by the number of boards) in order to win.