Overwatch

By Bazleebub, in Deathwatch Rules Questions

Overwatch rules P241

Situation :: Deathwatch Space Marine has overwatch active covering the distance between two buildings. Genestealer with higher agility bonus moves across the space triggering overwatch but would end it's movement in cover. What happens.

The space marine on overwatch would fire the moment his overwatch conditions were met. If his conditions were, "I'm looking in this field and I'm going to shoot the first tyranid that pops out," then the second the genestealer is within line of sight of the marine he will open fire.

Yes this means a character with overwatch can interrupt the movement of the target in his overwatch zone. Essentialy the target (the genestealer in this case) will take fire out in whatever cover or terrain it is standing in when the overwatch conditions are met. In your example, if the genestealer came out around a corner into an open area with cover 15 meters away the marine would open fire the second he saw it, most likely while its in open ground. The attack would inturrupt the genestealer's move before it could make it to the cover, as long as the conditions of the marine's overwatch were met. Of course the genestealer could attempt to dodge into any nearby cover as a reaction as long as it wasn't suprised by the attack. After the attack is made the character can obviously continue his movement into cover (if it's still alive).

Initiative doesn't really have anything to do with overwatch. The marine has declared overwatch in his last turn before the genestealer's turn in the next round. While on overwatch the marine is expecting something to happen (his conditions), and is prepared to open fire when it does acting out of sequence. The overwatch is the action he took for his last turn and does not stop until his conditions are met and he attacks or his turn comes around again.

herichimo said:

Of course the genestealer could attempt to dodge into any nearby cover as a reaction as long as it wasn't suprised by the attack.

Technically it can't. A reaction can only be used when it's not your turn... the Genestealer is currently moving, so it's the Genestealer's turn, and as a result it can't Dodge. One of the better ways to stop a Genestealer (the Counter-attack talent is a good one as well, for the same reasons).

herichimo said:

After the attack is made the character can obviously continue his movement into cover (if it's still alive).

This situation is exactly why the Tactical Advance action exists - to allow a character or creature to move from cover to cover without losing the benefits of it.

So if a reaction cant be taken during ur turn, if someone hit a techmarine and he reacts with a servo arm the enemy cant parry?

N0-1_H3r3 said:

herichimo said:

Of course the genestealer could attempt to dodge into any nearby cover as a reaction as long as it wasn't suprised by the attack.

Technically it can't. A reaction can only be used when it's not your turn... the Genestealer is currently moving, so it's the Genestealer's turn, and as a result it can't Dodge. One of the better ways to stop a Genestealer (the Counter-attack talent is a good one as well, for the same reasons).

Personally I think the rule concerning reactions in your own turn isn't so much a rule but an explanation to help the reader understand that, outside special rules/talents, a reaction is only used in response to something another character is doing. You can't dodge in your turn because 1: usually you aren't being attacked in your turn and 2: it would lead to characters abusing the reaction. Example of the last would be: character using semi-auto with his bolter and walking the 6 meters closer to the ceramite bunker, then using his reaction to dodge into the bunker (diving behind cover). This would be abusive.

But I'm sure this has been discussed in other threads lets try not to delve off-topic too much.

herichimo said:

Yes this means a character with overwatch can interrupt the movement of the target in his overwatch zone. Essentialy the target (the genestealer in this case) will take fire out in whatever cover or terrain it is standing in when the overwatch conditions are met.

What then is the intent of the wording "If this attack occurs at the same time as another character's Action, the character with the higher Agility Bonus acts first."

Bazleebub said:

herichimo said:

Yes this means a character with overwatch can interrupt the movement of the target in his overwatch zone. Essentialy the target (the genestealer in this case) will take fire out in whatever cover or terrain it is standing in when the overwatch conditions are met.

What then is the intent of the wording "If this attack occurs at the same time as another character's Action, the character with the higher Agility Bonus acts first."

Opposing overwatches? Anyway, I am not a fan of not being able to dodge in your own turn.

Alex

Well think of it, in overwatch's case, as when the character makes his overwatch action he interupts the targets action. Essentially in the middle of the targets turn the character on overwatch gets a pseudo-turn from overwatch. During this period the character on overwatch is taking his action and it is temporarily no longer the targets turn as it can take no actions until overwatch is complete. Therefore in the ultra-conservative RAW viewpoint it may still take a reaction until the interuption is over.

As for the agility bonus bit... hmmm, well I guess in the genestealers case it would finish its current action when it triggered overwatch (in this case movement), before the character on overwatch can shoot him. But the character on overwatch would shoot before the genestealer could take his next action if he still had actions available.

Just played the last session with no reactions on your own turn. It does make things like Overwatch and Delayed Actions fairly brutal... though truthfully we hadn't used much of those in the campaign until now, so it is partially just a result of them only becoming prominent in that last session (And we were facing lines of 5+ Tau at a time and in the face of that much fire power you are going to fail to dodge or run out of dodges eventually).

I am slightly concerned that players that might meta-game it might start using overwatch or delayed actions as the norm in order to prevent characters using their reactions... not sure how you get around this little problem (if the "no reactions in your own turn" is meant to be interpreted this way).

borithan said:

Just played the last session with no reactions on your own turn. It does make things like Overwatch and Delayed Actions fairly brutal... though truthfully we hadn't used much of those in the campaign until now, so it is partially just a result of them only becoming prominent in that last session (And we were facing lines of 5+ Tau at a time and in the face of that much fire power you are going to fail to dodge or run out of dodges eventually).

I am slightly concerned that players that might meta-game it might start using overwatch or delayed actions as the norm in order to prevent characters using their reactions... not sure how you get around this little problem (if the "no reactions in your own turn" is meant to be interpreted this way).


Well, I don't. But players can have a get-out-of-jail-free card. Check out the Regroup "Defensive" Stance.

Alex

We did, and used it effectively ("We will regroup... forward, into the room full of Tau"). It was useful (we are very bad at making any use of Squad Modes generally), but I am still a bit iffy about only usable when it is not your own turn. Both FFG and Games Workshop have never been ones for tight rules writing, so I am not convinced it isn't just "only used when it isn't your turn except in many various special cases".