Two Weapon Wielder, Burst, Scatter

By gabriel666, in Dark Heresy Rules Questions

I have recently gotten into dark heresy and i have designed a character for maximum devastation in close quarters so my question is thus.

a character who has ambidextrous and two weapon wielder ballistic who is wearing a recoil glove on each hand while two wielding combat shotguns how do you figure damage. first to figure if i hit i take a -10 for ambidextrous with my two weapon wielder since my recoil gloves cancel negatives for holding a basic in each hand. so to hit shooting on semi auto i roll a +0? and then do i roll for each shotgun that i shoot or for both as one action?

lets set up situation hitting opponent with toughness bonus 2 and AP 2. i roll four degrees of success. with my combat shotguns on semi auto with burst i hit with one shotgun 5 times. damage is (1d10+4)X5? or is it (5X1d10)+4? then when i do hit does it all count as one hit for damage against armor? or is it five separate hits against armor and does toughness bonus apply to each hit? and then i have to figure in my second shotgun which is a separate roll to hit or is included and is cumulative damage as one hit or as two separate hit?

so with 4 degrees of success i am rolling (1d10+4)X5-4 then another for my second shotgun? or is it (1d10+4)X10-4 for both shotguns?

Yeah, you'd roll at +0 with other bonuses/maluses.

If you hit 5 times, you roll 1d10+4 five times, so it's 5d10+20, not 5x(1d10+4), but I think that's what you meant. And these are all separate rolls, so armour and toughness apply to each. The second shotgun would be separate, too.

But you can't go semi-auto with both. If you want to use both in one action, you need to use the specific Two-Weapon wielding action (whatever it is called), and it doesn't allow to shoot both weapons at semi-auto rate IIRC. But you'd roll to hit separately for each shotgun.

He can use semi-auto on both shotguns in one turn and that will be Full-Action. Multiple attack action is always a Full Action and with Two weapon wielder Talent character can choose any fire mode for both of his weapons.

And as you are going to make a lot of damage rolls, you need to know, that only one and the first "10" for each weapon gives you Righteous Fury.

okay then so to add up my rolls i can attack both weapons on semi auto and making five attacks with each so i'm attacking [(1d10+4)-TB-AP]x10? and when rolling for the first shotgun first one has to be righteous fury or the sixth for the second shotgun?

Dictator said:

And as you are going to make a lot of damage rolls, you need to know, that only one and the first "10" for each weapon gives you Righteous Fury.

Can I get a page reference for that? We've never played with a limit on RFs per turn or action, but I've just started running a new game with new players so if it's in the book I don't want them confused.

p.195 DH the Rightous Fury (RF)Side Bar states:

"Normally, when you hit with an attack, the resulting Damage includes rolling one or more d10s. When you roll a 10 on any die (this includes a result of 10 when using a d5—even though the number is halved), it may indicate that the eye of the Emperor is upon you. This calls for a second attack roll, Testing Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill as if you were making another attack. If this second Test is successful, the spirit of the Emperor is within you, aiding your attack and guiding your aim. You can roll an additional 1d10 and add the result to the Damage total.

Should the result of this die also be a 10, the Emperor has indeed smiled upon you. You may immediately roll a third 1d10 and add that to the Damage total as well. This process continues until you roll a number other than 10.

I cannot find anything in the Eratta to contridict this, so given that the rule explicitly states "When you roll a 10 on any die" i think there is no limit to RF. If you roll 2d10 for a weapon, yep, that's two chances of RF. If you get multiple hits with that same weapon (e.g. shotcannon), thats two chances per hit. From the rules above, each RF opportunity (i.e. each '10' on the first damage roll for that hit) is resolved separately, so you could get two 10s for example, and 'hit' rightous fury for one, and 'miss' RF for the other.

This was one of the biggest reasons that DeathWatch bolter damage got reduced (I believe) because everyone was rolling 2d10+x for basic weapon damage. When you all get two or three hits per round, that's a lot of RFs.

Being somewhat aquainted with the practicalities of firing military weapons however I need to add that I really don't like dual weilding, especiailly basic weapons. Even with the famous AA-12 it's a bit silly and totally impractical. How will you reload? Aim? Open doors/gates/vehicles? Hide behind cover? Drag a wounded buddy? Do anything?

Even in the Grim Dark future of the 41st Millenium where there is only War a man is still just a man, and it is worthy of note for your character advancement that you can only use pistols for Dual Shot should you wish to take it at some stage.

well not listed here my character also has rapid reload and quickdraw so meaning to reload i assume he would reload one clip on a half action then reload the second one for using a full turn. aiming would basically be shouldering both weapons while aiming down the middle so to speak, opening a door would be shotgunning the lock or kicking it down or putting one back into its holster. getting down into cover would be back to cover and roll out to fire but realistically this is not for extended firefights with multiple enemies but rather a move in tactic to get off maximum damage before attacking. and your secondary comment about dual shot. i am uninformed but what does that give me again?

With Dual Shot you attack with a single shot from two pistols simultaneously. You make a single BS roll which is the attack roll for both pistols. It is a standard attack, meaning you can aim. The damage of each bullet is reduced separately for both bullets, but after that the remaining damage of each bullet is added together so that toughness counts only once. As you may imagine, it is very good against high TB opponents.

Not so good for mowing down a whole room full of goons but.

Tyraxus said:

Dictator said:

And as you are going to make a lot of damage rolls, you need to know, that only one and the first "10" for each weapon gives you Righteous Fury.

Can I get a page reference for that? We've never played with a limit on RFs per turn or action, but I've just started running a new game with new players so if it's in the book I don't want them confused.

Nope, I can't. That was a disigner's answer. If you roll multiple damage dices, there can be only 1 RF. He could be wrong, ofc =)

when rolling for the first shotgun first one has to be righteous fury or the sixth for the second shotgun?

Nope. I was meant, what firts 10 procs RF, not first die roll. Any way, that is not "official" rule.

Zakalwe said:

With Dual Shot you attack with a single shot from two pistols simultaneously. You make a single BS roll which is the attack roll for both pistols. It is a standard attack, meaning you can aim. The damage of each bullet is reduced separately for both bullets, but after that the remaining damage of each bullet is added together so that toughness counts only once. As you may imagine, it is very good against high TB opponents.

Not so good for mowing down a whole room full of goons but.

EDIT That should read:

"The damage of each bullet is reduced for armour separately for both bullets..."

alright this seems to be handy but also on a side note since i already am going for a close range class do you know of any scatter pistols since it seems to mention them a bit in the handbook but i have found no reference to one anywhere. perhaps in the IH? what else would you perhaps recommend for my character though maybe as a long range alternative?

Dictator said:

Nope, I can't. That was a disigner's answer. If you roll multiple damage dices, there can be only 1 RF. He could be wrong, ofc =)
when rolling for the first shotgun first one has to be righteous fury or the sixth for the second shotgun?

Nope. I was meant, what firts 10 procs RF, not first die roll. Any way, that is not "official" rule.

I do remember that one. The conclusion is that for a given damage roll, there can be only one Righteous Fury (so if you roll 5d10 for damage, be it one or 5 dice that roll a 10, you'll only confirm once, and you'll only get to roll 1 extra d10).

For multiple hits, each one can trigger RF.

Stormast said:

Dictator said:

Nope, I can't. That was a disigner's answer. If you roll multiple damage dices, there can be only 1 RF. He could be wrong, ofc =)

when rolling for the first shotgun first one has to be righteous fury or the sixth for the second shotgun?

Nope. I was meant, what firts 10 procs RF, not first die roll. Any way, that is not "official" rule.

I do remember that one. The conclusion is that for a given damage roll, there can be only one Righteous Fury (so if you roll 5d10 for damage, be it one or 5 dice that roll a 10, you'll only confirm once, and you'll only get to roll 1 extra d10).

For multiple hits, each one can trigger RF.

I believe that was how it worked, yes.

gabriel666 said:

alright this seems to be handy but also on a side note since i already am going for a close range class do you know of any scatter pistols since it seems to mention them a bit in the handbook but i have found no reference to one anywhere. perhaps in the IH? what else would you perhaps recommend for my character though maybe as a long range alternative?

There are some in IH, but all of them only have a clip size of 1, if I remember correctly.