Inne Sanctum conundrum...

By The Professor, in Arkham Horror Second Edition

So, the Inner Sanctum paragraph ends with "If you pass, close one gate of your choice." Thus do you keep the gate or return it to the bag?

Two ways to argue:

a) Normally, when you close a gate, you keep it. Since the encounter doesn´t say otherwise, the regular rule applies and you keep the trophy.

b) Instead of a) "You only keep trophies if you close after exploring" is the regular rule. Most of the encounter cards that offer you to close gates explicitly state this. From this you can draw the aforementioned conclusion.

I am inclined towards a) since first, rulebook rules are only inapplicable if explicitly stated on the card (or in the FAQ/errata ;-) ) and second, Inner Sanctum is kinda hard to get, so the encounter can be justified to be better (i.e. keep the trophy) than similar encounters.

Best regards

Enas

In the FAQ there is an answer to a similar, yet different question:

Q. A blue Other World encounter from the base game that occurs in the "Other" location reads as follows: "You've completed your task, but now you must escape before the portal closes! Pass a Speed (-2) check to return to Arkham. If you fail, you are lost in time and space. In either event, you automatically close the gate you entered through." The card doesn't specify, but you can still take the gate as a trophy, correct? Also, in situations like this, can you still spend the 5 clue tokens or an Elder Sign to seal the gate?

A. Yes, you still get it as a trophy, and yes, you can still seal it if you have the means.

True, in this case, you are exploring that gate and thus it makes sense to take the trophy. However, it is a precedent for having an encounter allow you to close the gate which allows you to seal and claim as a trophy.

Thanks to both of you (Enas and Musha) for your replies. I'm not one to apply Arkham's Razor (in essence, apply the solution which is a detriment to the Investigator) to every situation, nor am I one to make this more difficult of an enterprise (I'm looking at Avi lengua.gif ). I must admit, however, while I'm inclined to take the gate as a trophy as I have "closed" it, I'm of a different mind with regard to "sealing" it, in that sealing should be reserved for those times when one has actually explored the Other World to which it belongs. Thus, in the case encountered last night ~ I'll keep it as a trophy, but not allowed to seal it, while in the case referenced above (Musha), the Investigator did, in fact, explore the Other World and thus entitled to sealing the gate.

They may have wanted to avoid the "Take as a trophy" language because of Lurker and the possibility of endless gates. But I may be wrong...

Professor,

I'm with you on this. I'd play that I may take the trophy, but not seal

Reading the Inner Sanctum Encounter card along with the rules on Closing Gates (page 17) I would say that you do not receive a gate trophy nor can you try and seal the gate.

CLOSING GATES
"Before he can close a gate, an investigator must enter the gate, explore the Other World it leads to, and then return to Arkham."

Inner Sanctum Encounter card
You're invited to take part in a Gating ceremony. If you agree, spend 2 Clue tokens and 1 Sanity to make a Lore (-2) check . If you pass, close one gate of your choice. If you fail, nothing happens."

With games such as AH, text on cards very often over-ride the rules as such. In this case it is clear that you get to close a gate of your choice but nowhere on the encounter card does it say that you may seal the gate or obtain it as a trophy.

The encounter card text over-rides the following section of the rules.
"If, during the Arkham Encounters Phase, an investigator is on a location that contains an open gate and that investigator has acquired the explored marker, he may now attempt to close the gate."
I do not see that it over-rides the following section
"If the investigator succeeds at this check, he closes the gate and takes the gate marker as a gate trophy."
since the investigator did not succeed at making the Lore/Fight check (modified by the Gate) during the appropriate step in the rules (i.e. Phase 3: Arkham Encounters. 2. Gate ). The Inner Sanctum closed the gate, you were involved but you were only part of the endeavour to close the gate. I don't see why you should be entitled to the gate trophy nor that you should be able to seal the gate.

Musha Shukou said:

In the FAQ there is an answer to a similar, yet different question:

To be clear, this is not in the current official FAQ but in the Official Answers from Kevin Wilson sticky.

The example you gave would encourage me to think that the usual rules were followed ("Before he can close a gate, an investigator must enter the gate, explore the Other World it leads to, and then return to Arkham.") thus allowing you to close and seal the gate.

xris said:

With games such as AH, text on cards very often over-ride the rules as such. In this case it is clear that you get to close a gate of your choice but nowhere on the encounter card does it say that you may seal the gate or obtain it as a trophy.

The encounter card text over-rides the following section of the rules.
"If, during the Arkham Encounters Phase, an investigator is on a location that contains an open gate and that investigator has acquired the explored marker, he may now attempt to close the gate."

I do not see that it over-rides the following section
"If the investigator succeeds at this check, he closes the gate and takes the gate marker as a gate trophy."
since the investigator did not succeed at making the Lore/Fight check (modified by the Gate) during the appropriate step in the rules (i.e. Phase 3: Arkham Encounters. 2. Gate ). The Inner Sanctum closed the gate, you were involved but you were only part of the endeavour to close the gate. I don't see why you should be entitled to the gate trophy nor that you should be able to seal the gate.

Neither does the encounter card say that you cannot seal the gate or take it as a trophy. As you say, this section of the rules is not overridden: ""If the investigator succeeds at this check, he closes the gate and takes the gate marker as a gate trophy." As part of Inner Sanctum encounter, the investigator has just made a skill check to close the gate. The rules says that investigators who succeed at a check to close a gate may take the gate as a trophy. If that rule is not overridden by the encounter, then it's possible that the investigator who succeeds at a check to close a gate could take the gate as a trophy in this case.

If the rules had read, ""If the investigator has an explored token and succeeds at this check, he closes the gate and takes the gate marker as a gate trophy," then I would agree with your conclusion.

Having said that, I remember there was a long discussion in the forums about this type of situation. If I remember right, it was concluded that you can only seal gates or take gates as trophies if you have an explored marker for the gate and you closed the gate yourself. I don't have the link, though. It had something to do with an encounter at the science building that lets you close gates remotely.

Musha's reply is from the designer about an encounter that closes your gate. He says you take the trophy and may seal it.

There is nothing inherently different about this encounter.

Tibs said:

Musha's reply is from the designer about an encounter that closes your gate. He says you take the trophy and may seal it.

There is nothing inherently different about this encounter.

I think the difference is that in the Other World encounter while the current one at question is an Arkham Encounter. For an Other World encounter, the investigator has already entered the other world and the card implies that they have already done what they need to do. While in the Arkham Encounter, the player didn't enter an Other World.

For the designer to say that the Other World encounter allows the player to seal the game and take it as a trophy doesn't seem that unlikely to me. Because it is essentially just speeding up the normal process by a turn. But in the Twilight Lodge encounter, the situation has nothing in common with the way that one normally seals a gate and collects the trophy.

Julia,

Thanks!

xris ,

I appreciate the interpretation...it's just not the one to which I subscribe.

Avec,

Normal retainer fees apply ~ checks in the mail, Counselor happy.gif